Both agree on the point and the proper meme format
The Green Party was never to be taken seriously by anyone that knows better. It’s always been a spoiler party. This is evident in the fact that seemingly none of the Green Party candidates do jack shit three years out of every four. And when the election cycle comes. They just projectile-shit left and right depending on who’s paying.
Not to mention the significant Russian ties for the Green Party and the clear spoiler effect.
As a firm believer in the need for a strong labor party to struggle for the rights of working people as an absolute bare minimum to advancing the struggle for human rights, individual freedom and working class power (while it isn’t by default a guarantee for any of those things as it would require the participation of growing masses to even begin to take these problems on,) this party doesn’t exist in this election. Principles don’t count for shit, only power matters. Before engaging in any safe state strategies, better make sure your math is impeccable since the Republicans can lose the popular vote and still win the election. We can build power for the future, but keep Trump out for now.
Daily reminder:
Jill disappears on November 6th and reappears 3 years and 10 months later. Like clockwork.
Jill disappears on November 6th and reappears 3 years and 10 months later
Good money in it. Russian rubles too.
Do you think she started out earnest and got co-opted?
Has she been a willing accomplice since day one?To sit at a fancy gala dinner with the very definition of what the hard right salivates to be, then to declare that both parties are the same… that is something… that takes some fucking chutzpah.
STAR vote to make parties irrelevant except at the coalition building level!
Finally, yes! Anyone who wants to vote for a third party should instead spend their time and effort fighting for a different voting system (ranked choice, star, etc) that could mathematically allow a third party to actually succeed.
That sounds too much like work and not enough like bitching.
Makes me wish we had some serious third parties in this country, and not two grifting perennial presidential-election also-rans
The lack of viable ones is less a result of effort on their part or desire for them among the electorate, and more to do with the nature of our voting system. Its hard to develop a viable third party when the system one is operating in mathematically guarantees that only two parties can be seriously competitive with eachother in nationally significant elections, and those parties are already established. They can be competitive in local elections that the larger ones dont put as much effort into, but the only times theyve ever gotten to the presidency have been the couple times when one of the two major parties basically collapses and gets replaced with a different one.
They can be competitive in local elections that the larger ones dont put as much effort into,
That’s my point, though. The two biggest third parties in this country aren’t competitive in local elections, because they put even less effort in local elections as the two major parties do. They make a performative shot at the presidency every four years, and that’s about fucking it. The Libertarians are slightly better (god, what a sentence to gag on) on this than the Greens, but not by much.
Nah dawg. Check my post history (don’t actually), I’ve been advocating (and been getting heavily downvoted) for supporting third party candidates for years
Third parties in the presidential campaign only allow people to vote in a non tactical way. If they actually want to do anything they should start on square one which is to get a single candidate into congress.
The strategy for presidential campaigns should always be to run, get the message across, watch polling, withdraw, endorse until they are big enough. When big enough then open up coalition talks and affect policy by promoting voter reform and couple of key policies.
Doing just the presidency is good for publicity but incredibly inadequate.
This is not a post about supporting third parties, which is still pointless anyway. This is a post about third parties themselves doing nothing in non-election years. If you aren’t a third party candidate this post isn’t about you.
It is about them, just not in a positive way.
BTW, for some reason I have them tagged as “Tankie Dumpo”, no idea why.
And you are no closer to accomplishing your goals…
There is a reason socialists in the US vote for the democratic party: we have influence in participation and have been granted concessions.
socialists in the US vote for the democratic party
If you’re voting for the democratic party then you are not a socialist. Politics aren’t just a feeling you have or something you say you believe in, they’re actions that you take.
I didn’t realize putting Marx in your name entitled you to the ability of gatekeeping socialism from everybody who doesn’t live in your imaginary socialist world and instead have to deal with the political realities of the system they are operating in.
Imagine for a moment that you are a pacifist. But then you join the military, go overseas, and kill hundreds of people. Should you get to call yourself a pacifist? Of course not!
Same theory here. If you think socialist thoughts, speak socialist words, and then support capitalist parties - then you my friend are a capitalist. There are plenty of ways to do socialist praxis within a political system where the electral system has been entirely captured by capitalist interests, so don’t you waste your tears crying about “gatekeeping”.
I don’t support capitalism.
I live in a capitalist world and currently only have a choice between capitalism that can be negotiated with, or full blown fascist flavored capitalism.
If you hate liberalism more than you do fascism, you aren’t a socialist.
Liberalism and fascism are two sides of the same coin, like a “good cop” and a “bad cop,” the only thing that distinguished the fascism of mid 20th century Europe was that it was being applied to Europeans, rather than its typical targets.
But that doesn’t actually matter in this case, because both of the options on offer for Americans have participated enthusiastically in bringing fascism to American communities. The Dems are the ones currently backing Israel’s genocide and escalation, the Dems are the ones who built the cages and the Dems are the ones currently throwing kids in them.
Biden could shoot someone on fifth avenue and you liberals would still think that he’s somehow better than Trump.
I am confused because Trump made the comment regarding committing murder on 5th Avenue as explanation of his cult’s loyalty, but you are claiming that is a Biden thing. I’m also unsure of the relevance, seeing that Biden isn’t one of the two choices you are being given to elected as your next president…
I’m regards to Palestine, there are two options: the democrats and working towards a peace deal, or Trump, who wants to finish the job of eradicating Palestinians. Voting for anybody but Harris is a vote for total eradication in this case, and I’m not going to let you pretend that isn’t the case if we are to continue this dialog.
My goal is to never vote for the Dems or Republicans after 2016 so thanks for telling me I’m no closer but I think I am.
Knowing that I’ve made that commitment to myself let’s me vote for the candidates I actually want, without fear of “causing the worse of the two” to win
Pretending a spoiler candidate has a chance of winning and getting zero percent of what you want doesn’t make you more moral than the people who vote for the furthest left candidate with the ability to win and getting 5% of what you wanted.
We have an obligation and a moral duty to fight fascism at the ballot box. Voting for a fascists’ spoiler because the spoiler pretends they are on your side is not strength on your part, it is cowardice.
We have an obligation and a moral duty to fight fascism at the ballot box
Nah the whole thing is a joke. The Dems are corrupt but the Republicans are worse, so I feel a moral obligation to support neither.
If you admit that Republicans are worse, than you have to admit that voting for spoiler candidates who help elected Republicans is the worse option than just voting democratic.
You can’t admit that Republicans are worse than use what little political capital you have to help them while pretending you are more moral than those of us who vote democratic.
You are just sniffing your own farts and pretending you are better than those of us who you leave behind to actually make the decision to help as many we are given the ability to.
Your point would make a lot more sense if the continuous “Dems vs Republicans” for decades didn’t bring us to this point. But alas, we’re in a bad spot where “this election” is the “most important” one yet. Yeah right lmao. Cya at the ballet box
No, you won’t see me at the ballot box. You will be getting high off the false morality injection voting for some dingbat gives you, while I will be trying to prevent a fascist with intentions of being a day one dictator from taking power.
So you’re the kind of person staring at a forest but all you can make out is a tree. I do imagine that kind of willful ignorance helps to comfort you. The reality is the best you will ever influence, while feigning ignorance to how things actually work, is a tree. Maybe one day you will open your eyes and recognize the potential influence for change you could have harnessed if your kind attempted to constructively change things within the constraints we were born into rather than cutting off the face of your allies while being or feigning ignorance in reality.
Nah I’m the kind of person who realizes a constant vote for the “lesser evil” is a slow slip into facism, and I would rather rip off the bandaid instead.
Nah I’m the kind of person who realizes a constant vote for the “lesser evil” is a slow slip into facism, and I would rather rip off the bandaid instead.
“I want fascism as fast as possible” is a hell of a take, but one that seems frighteningly common amongst .ml users.
Well it looks like this one’s as good as any:
I’m voting party for socialism and liberation and you can too!
They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.
Psl is active outside of presidential elections, active outside of elections in general and is expanding!
I support third parties but I’d not vote for them because then the vote doesn’t count. Voting in local elections is another story though and especially in safe state elections. Third parties should force parties to the negotiating table for running as a coalition when they have enough support.
In our electoral system, a vote for a third-party is a waste, and any resources dumped into them is a bigger waste.
A socialist is going to prefer Harris over Trump, but by voting a third party instead of Democrat they’re effectively supporting Trump. When the election comes down to the wire, they’ll be the ones responsible for a second Trump term.
This has already happened. People voting for the Green party over Al Gore are the reason we got 8 years of Bush.
I don’t mind the odd asshole who refuses to play ball, so far up their own ass they think they’re so special and that the spoiler effect doesn’t apply to their vote.
If that is, they’re silent about it.
The second they start advocating for others to join them in their stupidity, they go from a harmless idiot to an active threat to democracy, exactly as bad as the MAGAt they likely are.
Maybe you can’t speak for what socialists prefer. It’s really odd to say it’s third party voters’ fault your preferred candidate didn’t win rather than your candidates fault they did not attract enough voters.
If everyone left of the Overton window promise to vote for the Democrats regardless of what policies the Democrats propose, what prevents the Democrats from moving to the right?
All the other elections every year. The party pays attention to the local and state elections. It matters tremendously. And in the mean time you are improving your local government that effects your everyday life.
Voting 3rd in the presidential election is a waste if the party hasn’t spent any time building support in existing government structures of power though.
Does a third party have some special avenue around an obstructionist house and senate that we all haven’t seen so far?
My vote isn’t a waste. It is counted like any other.
My vote for psl isn’t support for trump. It doesn’t count towards trumps total. Would you say the people unwilling to vote democrat are more responsible for the events of a trump term than the people who didn’t vote at all? Than the democrat party for running a bad campaign? Than the administrative regime that puts its plans into action?
You are mistaken about bush v gore. The Supreme Court installed bush and the Florida recount wouldn’t have changed the result because it wasn’t the whole state recount needed to actually flip the electoral college. Gore won Florida but the recount wasn’t in enough precincts to show that. I have no love for the greens, but they’re not why we got bush.
This presidential election is not the time to be pushing the PSL party. Even if they were much more popular than they are now, they aren’t on enough states ballots to get to 270 even if they won every state they’re in.
Focus on getting PSL candidates into house and Senate seats and making them more mainstream, not taking votes away from Democrats when the alternative is still Trump.
If winning the presidential election was all that mattered you’d have a good point.
My vote for psl doesn’t take a vote away from democrats because I would not vote for the democrats.
Oh yeah, you’re the guys throwing nails on the road outside my wife’s school once a month. Hard pass.
May I see the school and nails?
Nah, you were all yelling at people talking about it at the beginning, too.
I mean, rig is right in the name…
I wouldn’t worry about it. I’m told that 3rd party voters are too small a bloc to bother trying to earn their votes.
3rd party voters are too small a bloc to carry a candidate, and pandering to that bloc at the expense of alienating moderates is strategically stupid.
It’s like you’re building the tallest tower. In a tight contest, every block helps, and a small block might be the difference between a success and failure if the competition is close enough. But trading a big block to get a smaller block is just plain dumb. There’s no reason to “earn” something that’s mutually exclusive with a more valuable something you already have.
The bourgeoisie politicians will be materially fine win or lose, it’s the prole voters who will materially suffer due to their “strategic” 3rd party vote. It stands no chance of winning, and there’s no mechanism to associate it with specific complaints. 3rd party voting isn’t even effective at the intended goal, it’s just a bad play.
But hey, go ahead. FA, FO.
Math is hard, though, can’t they just treat voting like a fun self-indulgence and not something that affects peoples’ lives?
As I understand, it is true that non-voters are already counted out in statistical predictions, so in essence- yes. 3rd party voters while potentially helpful, are irrelevant to the actual numbers counted towards elections.
Please tell that to the people posting 100 memes a day about 3rd parties wrecking the election.
Change only happens when its convenient /s
I’ve been staring at this for two hours but I still don’t get it.
And it was only posted 8mins ago, impressive
Are you going to explain it or are you going to just keep making fun of my math skills?
Outside of the uses in math and physics, time can be seen as a recurring pattern of ages or cycles.
The first three panels state the obvious and the fourth doesn’t make sense to me.
and that’s ok
You are being made fun of.
If you make fun of someone and they don’t get get it, did you really make fun of them?
Just because youre too lazy to pay attention to third parties on non election years does not mean theyre not working.
False equivalency. This is, in fact, an election year. And pushing a presidential spoiler hack backed by Russia isn’t a great look anyway.
Oh, they’re working, all right — but for who?
The American working class, besides PSL, they the only ones doing so politically.
They’re the ones saying voting against Harris is the only power they have to change her policies.
Thats an objectively true statement.
Maybe, but it leaves at the other half of the equation, don’t you think?
What’s the last law the greens got passed with their tactics?
What’s the last progressive legislative win from the Dems that is not something Sweden had a better version of in 1976?
The ADA and recent infrastructure act
That was either bi partisan, or a child of Republicans, as it was introduced in 1986 by a bipartisan group, signed into law by hw Bush in 1990, and amended by a Republican Congress and w bush in 2008. There was never a dem push for the law or the amendment, and there really wouldn’t be as by far the majority of Americans with disabilities vote Republican.
I like how you just admitted that your stanning the greens isn’t born out of the dems not being progressive enough but out of having bought the republican line hook line and sinker that dems just bad for whatever reason and having to do more introspection than glomming onto the cool edgy people who swear they’re more progressive than makes your brain hurt too much.
All the political saviness of a midwestern white boomer who doesn’t know jack about their political interest other than that they think the dems are against them because reasons.
You really enjoy making up things in your head to argue against so you can actually win. Greens are the only center left party in the US, and the only third party on enought state ballots to what n the presidency. That’s why Dems have spent over 50 million in lawsuits against them, plus countless millions on the propaganda that informed your opinion. I personally like PSL way more, and would love the 50+ crowd to die off already so we can have a socialist in office again and actually make the country better. But we keep extending the lifespan of those brainwashed fucks, so instead, greens get my vote.
Right now the only way Dems could ever get my vote is steal the green party platform, cut off Israel entirely, and actually start to enact positive change.
Please tell me what they’ve been doing for the last 3 years.
Getting people elected to local seats.
Nice, which ones?
This is public information, you could have looked this up yourself at any point in the last 8 years instead of falling for Clinton propaganda. https://www.gpelections.org/greens-in-office/
That’s a pretty negative and aggressive response to someone inviting you show how hard the Green party has been working.
However, that’s a pretty poor showing for 8 years of work. no wonder everyone thinks the Green party does nothing besides run spoiler presidential candidates. You probably to need to find a hobby that doesn’t revolve around falling for Jill Stein propaganda.
Given half of their donations go to defending the right to run for office because the Dems sue every single chance they get in every single election where both a green and a dem theyve done pretty well. Maybe you need to find a hobby that doesn’t revolve around worshipping corporations and conservative cops.
lol sur
