Sen. John Fetterman (D-Penn.) called some of his colleagues’ quickness to blame Israel for the hospital blast in Gaza “disturbing” in a statement Wednesday.

“It’s truly disturbing that Members of Congress rushed to blame Israel for the hospital tragedy in Gaza,” Fetterman said in a post on X, formerly Twitter.

  • ZJBlank@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I was fully ready to believe Israel was responsible for it because it fits their MO, but the evidence is compelling that it was indeed a misfired rocket. The small crater we’ve seen in photos combined with the large fireball on video is consistent with a small warhead and a hefty charge of leftover propellant. Yes, the probability of such an accident occurring is low, but not zero.

    • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Yes, the probability of such an accident occurring is low, but not zero.

      I’m actually surprised these sorts of accidents don’t happen more often, considering the primitive rocket technology they’re using.

    • kava@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      A small crater doesn’t mean Israel didn’t bomb it. There are ways to blow up bombs that doesn’t leave much of a crater. For example, check out this video I just uploaded on imgur. It’s a proximity blast - once it gets to a certain elevation above the ground it blows up. This does damage but doesn’t leave a crater.

      Also, I uploaded another video which was a sound comparison between the typical Hamas rocket as compared to bombs equipped with the US’s JDAM system. JDAM is just a way to turn “dumb bombs” into “smart bombs”. read more here. Listen to the sound difference here.

      This doesn’t prove anything conclusively, but there is a lot of discussion on the OSINT communities on twitter going on right now and yesterday about this attack on the hospital. There are a lot of smart people arguing for both sides, and I’m not smart nor an expert. In lieu of an independent investigation, I’m going to default to probably Israel just based on my above comment.

      • HubertManne@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        This type of blast would murder the building. Three of your dots at least are not things we know or we know the opposite.

        • kava@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          there are different types of bombs you can use with JDAM. It doesn’t have to be a massive 2,000lb bomb like the MK84 (of which Israel has a large stockpile of)

          the MK82 for example is also compatible which is 500 lbs or the 1,000lb variant MK83. here’s a vid of MK82.

          that could plausibly do damage similar to what we saw, especially if we vary the elevation at which it blows up. and all of them would sound similar to each other to someone on the ground

          main point is that “there’s a small crater” isn’t definitive evidence for “israel didn’t bomb”

          • HubertManne@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Sure evidence is never going to be for certain but I will say that again because your bullet points have things that are from straight out lies (the fake facebook posting) Any information from you is suspect. I mean we could go all the way to maybe the pilot dropped a grenade.

            • kava@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              which ones are straight up lies? enlighten me

              i tried very deliberately to only make statements in the bullet points that i could back up.

              we can disagree about my logic but something either happened or it didn’t.

              • HubertManne@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                These definately

                The majority of the Palestinian rockets do not have the payload to do so much damage
                IDF Digital Spokesman posted a tweet admitting responsibility for the attack, only to quickly delete it
                
                
                • kava@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Hananya Naftali is the name of the spokesman. here’s a link to his twitter

                  this was the tweet that made immediately after the hospital event go ahead and look it up, it was widely reported on

                  he then posted this after deleting the original

                  now go search for a reuters article about the bombing that was live before he posted his original tweet. i couldn’t find one, personally. although to be fair, i didn’t look very hard


                  you can read more about palestinian rocket arsenal. it’s not secret classified information

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_arsenal

                  their most common rocket is the Qassam, this is the one they produce themselves

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

                  the biggest payload is 20kg

                  we’re talking about a bomb in the 250-500lb range. it just isn’t enough.

                  they do have stronger rockets, but they are fewer because they cannot produce them entirely on their own. that’s where iranian rockets come in

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5

                  for example that one they have been known to fire before. it’s an actual rocket from an actual military. not jerry rigged together. that one we’re talking 125kg, so we’re starting to get into the discussion range we’re talking about

                  they have a lot more shitty qassam rockets than anything else. this is evident by the amount of damage the average rocket does when it lands in israel - virtually nothing. they have to send like 150 rockets to kill 1 israeli

                  • HubertManne@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    So I was talking about the faked facebook post but instead your talking about a social media influencer and trying to make it sound like he is some israeli official, I will just say its a meaningless point then. Hamas and islamic jihad has been hitting israel with rockets forever and I see damage just like and worse than the hospital. Trying to say israel used a really small bomb rather than it being one of those rockets is ridiculous. That being said I don’t think there is enough proof to say either way. But lets say for some reason a madman knows for sure what really happened and he has me tied up with a gun to my head and will shoot me If I don’t get the answer right to the question of if it was israel that hit that hospital. I would say no. It would be my best chance at living. Now queing folks saying they will shoot me given the hypothetical I put up.

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      it fits their MO

      Israel consistently does whatever it can to minimize civilian casualties, up to and including assuming more risk for their own soldiers and civilians

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Except it provably isn’t. Calling for evacuations before military strikes is an easy and obvious example.

          Allowing Hamas to bombard them with thousands of rockets for years is another really obvious one that no one ever seems to recognize.

          • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-gaza-area-bombed-after-warning-to-move

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-bombs-egypt-border-crossing-it-had-touted-as-an-escape-route-for-besieged-palestinians/ar-AA1hYfk2

            Calling for evacuations before military strikes is an easy and obvious example.

            Man, I’m not going to get into a tit for tat with you. Hamas has blood on their hands. That doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend Israel doesn’t.

            I’m in my 50’s; this is at least the third or fourth time I can remember having the reaction of “Wow, Israel gives no shits who they hurt” during an event like this.

            How about those illegal settlements which are a 24/7/365 provocation?

            Hamas isn’t innocent, but Israel damn sure isn’t either.

              • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Read what I quoted from your comment, and tell me which of the links I posted supports it.

                The rest is just because I had my dander up at the continuous implication from some that we’re supposed to support Israel uncritically.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Endeavoring to minimize civilian casualties does not mean there will not be civilian casualties.

                  The argument that Israel is aiming for civilian casualties is nonsensical.

                  • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    So you didn’t read the articles or you claim they are false?

                    Edited to add - I know the cartoon inserted was from a previous time we were all shaking our head at Israel, but that’s exactly what it looks like overall.

                    Edited again to say - at best they are giving lip service to watching out for civilians but taking no care to actually do so. I reject the premise that this would have been a proportional response even if I believed they actually were trying not to hit them. I don’t think the folks calling the shots care whatsoever about civilians being on the other end.

                    I also think they haven’t considered what actions belong in the “Guaranteed” category when considering actions that are 100% going to create additional generations who feel they have a legitimate reason for future acts of violence against Israel.