What would good comrade Lenin do
Why do people think the five heads are some Game of Throne characters with “preferred” “successors”
Trots are especially into these succession games. Always weird monarchist-like (sex) cults where there’s a king and he appoints his successor. No semblance of democratic centralism whatsoever.
Scrath a lib and monarchist bleeds.
Being a Kautskyist in the Year of Our Lord 2024 is something that could only happen from being terminally online
If someone unironically calls themselves a Kautskyist there is a high chance they have a humiliation kink.
Goddamn, a significant amount of commies in the country where I live consider themselves some absurd combination of “Post-Trotsky Kautskyists” and I haven’t a damn clue how it’s unironic. It’s mistaking ideological positions for methods and analysis. Pisses me off
That’s a guy I haven’t even heard of
What idealism does to a mfer.
you knew the rules
He doesn’t even have the good skills of Trotsky
He doesn’t deserve the pickaxe, but rather deserves getting mocked for the rest of his life for being a Marxist Philistine instead of a Marxist Leninist…
Tbf, Kautsky is best known for being dunked on by Lenin. So you got your wish granted.
this is unfair, during his time kautsky was the most popular and well known marxist. that didn’t change until after the october revolution
That’s in his time, REEE was referring to now. Plus what use is being popular if your legacy is one of humiliation and being comically wrong on some very significant points that you staked your claim on?
what about what he staked his claims on would be particularly damaging because I feel like in a post-soviet collapse world his writings and beliefs would resonate quite well with people who are anti-soviet union and its legacy along with the derrived countries and ideologies like china and trotskyism but also find themselves thoroughly revolutionary unlike social democrats and pro-organization unlike anarchists
His main claim was the Lenin and the Bolsheviks had turned the Soviet Union into a “dictatorship” by “prematurely” executing the October Revolution in 1917. He claimed that this set back world socialism by decades, would ruin the Soviet Union, and was completely unaligned with the ideals of Marx, Engles, and himself. Hence why Lenin dunked on him with one of the hardest diss tracks in several essays pulling his points apart at the seams.
He further rejected the notion of the “Dictatorship of the Proletariat”, was apathetic to the power wielded by labour unions, and was essentially an idealist anarchist in practice. This is absurd, as how do you reach a communist world, without one of its key and major steps? The world has yet to see a Kaustky based approach because it is all but impossible.
Also who cares about “anti-Soviet Union” chuds? Is that really the audience you want to pander to?
He was disliked and rejected by Luxembourg, Lenin (obviously), Stalin, Trotsky even, Mao, and many more. Guess which side was right in the end?
I am not trying to pander to any sort of audience only talking about the attractiveness of kautsky and his beliefs to people today and giving my theory why. I’m also not very convinced by your line of reasoning because all you’ve said besides appealing to a number of historical figures not agreeing with him is saying he didn’t believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat which is confusing because he wrote an entire pamphlet called “the dictatorship of the proletariat” explaining how he believed in it and believed what russia was doing was not the dictatorship of the proletariat. especially weird since you included rosa luxembourg who famously considered russia to be a police state not adhering to the dictatorship of the proletariat
The Deprogram sub when Hakim quotes Deng Xiaoping (they still don’t get that the podcast is 75% ML)
Here’s Lenin’s response to the faux-Marxist liberal Kautsky: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/oct/10.htm
Still just as relevant today as when it was written, still just as potent in slapping down the same idealist nonsense that left-liberals continue to repeat ad nauseam, channeling Kautsky without even knowing it.
Some excerpts from the piece:
Kautsky assures his reader-in a perfectly serious and extremely “learned” tone-that what Marx meant by “revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat” was not a “form of governing” that precludes democracy, but a state, namely, “a state of rule”. And the rule of the proletariat, as the majority of the population, is possible with the strictest observance of democracy […]
Incredible, but there we are! That is exactly the way Kautsky argues and he angrily accuses the Bolsheviks of violating “democracy” in their Constitution and throughout their policy; and he takes every opportunity to energetically preach “the democratic instead of the dictatorial method”.
This is a complete desertion to the opportunists […], who have declared more frankly and honestly that they do not accept Marx’s doctrine of the dictatorship of the proletariat on the ground that it runs counter to democracy.
[…]
It is a complete renunciation of the proletarian revolution, which is replaced by the liberal theory of “winning a majority” and “utilising democracy"! Kautsky the renegade has completely forgotten, distorted and thrown overboard everything Marx and Engels taught for forty years, from 1852 to 1891, demonstrating the need for the proletariat to “smash” the bourgeois state machine.
[…]
Kautsky has renounced Marxism by forgetting that every state is a machine for the suppression of one class by another, and that the most democratic bourgeois republic is a machine for the oppression of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie.
The dictatorship of the proletariat, the proletarian state, which is a machine for the suppression of the bourgeoisie by the proletariat, is not a “form of governing”, but a state of a different type. Suppression is necessary because the bourgeoisie will always furiously resist being expropriated.
[…]
Bourgeois democracy, which is invaluable in educating the proletariat and training it for the struggle, is always narrow, hypocritical, spurious and false; it always remains democracy for the rich and a swindle for the poor.
Proletarian democracy suppresses the exploiters, the bourgeoisie—and is therefore not hypocritical, does not promise them freedom and democracy—and gives the working people genuine democracy.
[…]
Kautsky has thrown overboard the “class struggle” as applied to democracy! Kautsky has become a downright renegade and a lackey of the bourgeoisie.
[…]
Kautsky has to admit that the Soviet form of organisation is of world-wide, and not only of Russian significance […] But, imitating the wisdom of the Mensheviks, who have happily sided with the bourgeoisie against the proletariat, Kautsky “deduces” that the Soviets are all right as “battle organisations”, but not as “state organisations”.
Marvellous! Form up in Soviets, you proletarians and poor peasants! But, for God’s sake, don’t you dare win! Don’t even think of winning! The moment you win and vanquish the bourgeoisie, that will be the end of you; for you must not be “state” organisations in a proletarian state. In fact, as soon as you have won you must break up!
[…]
Well, isn’t this man Kautsky a real revolutionary? He is heart and soul for revolution … provided there is no serious struggle threatening annihilation! He has completely “overcome” the old errors of old Engels, who so enthusiastically lauded the educational value of violent revolutions. Like the “serious” historian he is, he has completely renounced the delusions of those who said that civil war steels the exploited and teaches them to build a new society without exploiters.
[…]
Europe’s greatest misfortune and danger is that it has no revolutionary party. It has parties of traitors like the Scheidemanns, Renaudels, Hendersons, Webbs and Co., and of servile souls like Kautsky. But it has no revolutionary party.
Preaching to the choir here, but man it really seems like all these “I’m a different kind of socialist/communist” boutique tendencies with like 3 adherents are a kind of outflow of the western progressive’s desire to have good beliefs in the face of obvious capitalist evil colliding with a lifetime of anticommunist propaganda that makes them shirk the label unless it has a million little qualifiers tacked on. Like they want to triangulate a position that will get them the cool rebel clout but that also doesnt have the historical baggage that would impede them from moving into PMC circles. They want to vive Cube but still shit on le CCP. They want it all in one bag, but they don’t want the bag to be heavy. They want diet, zero sugar communism.
Well no, that’s giving them too much credit. They want to be lauded as cool sexy revolutionaries while still enjoying the treats of imperialism.
the western progressive’s desire to have good beliefs in the face of obvious capitalist evil colliding with a lifetime of anticommunist propaganda that makes them shirk the label unless it has a million little qualifiers tacked on
this was so well put and extremely accurate. it wasn’t that long ago that I was reading marx and absorbing myself in history but still battling with this niggling little propaganda bug in my brain telling me that it’s somehow inherently wrong. i wanted to talk about it with people without having to be on the backfoot defending legitimate tragedies as well as propaganda. it took me awhile to realize that’s the exact position capital wants to keep communism in.
They want diet, zero sugar communism.
should be writing opinion pieces or articles or something, you have a good way with words
Thanks a bunch comrade, I would kind of like to get into writing
shirk
Shirk? A’udubillah
Squirm away from, avoid, shun
Just making a shitty joke dw comrade
Yeah that’s what I felt before… Cuz the mainstream media kept shatting on the AES I liked…
What is with that place? Are they ML, or just a bunch of edgy western leftists? Or both?
There’s some ML there, but for most regulars dialectical materialism and understanding of imperialism is sorely lacking and shallow. They also often have centrist and proreligious threads there.
Tbf Hakim and yugo are religious so I don’t find the pro religious threads to be surprising
It is surprising in the place claiming to be marxist, i don’t mean the usual discussion about tactical relations to religion but massive apologia.
Which again isn’t weird considering that this is very much the position of two of the hosts. I am not saying I necessarily agree with it but it makes complete sense for the subreddit to be like this.
I mean sure, revisionists naturally gonna revise.
the CPC has allowed muslims to be members during large parts of china’s history and most members don’t consider themselves athiests in different polls that have been taken. other countries like afghanistan allowed people to be religious in their parties and theres video proof of many of them praying at mosques and such. its not as outlandish as you’d be lead to believe
That is not correct, party statute demands atheism from their members. I suppose they might allow muslims to join as long as they would at least pretend, but i doubt they would allow things like open participation. Or they might look the other way at such violations, CPC was pretty full of corruption at times and i wouldn’t be surprised it still happens.
About Afghanistan, maybe, but it did not helped them in a long run.
And again, you make the same assumption as deprogram crowd, to confuse principles with tactics. It’s not outlandish, it’s “just” a mistake and a revision.
While China is very lenient on religion and the freedom of religion is enjoyed as long as it’s free from imperial influences, it doesn’t allow CPC members to be adherents to religions officially though they are lax at times at upholding this.
You may be thinking of North Korea which has a long history of Christians in its government since it’s inception.
they’re baby leftists
Bunch of liberals who think listening to a podcast makes them a leftist.
I mean it’s generally pretty good. You’re just always going to occasionally see some stupid comment posted, just because that’s how reddit is.
If you list an incredibly specific thing instead of a currently-active political party, you’re not a serious leftist and are in fact an online larper.
Kautkysim is somewhat still a thing just as bersteinism and even lassalism, just not separate. It was Lasalle that put the cornerstone of today socialdemocracy, Bernstein bastardised marxism to the point of being outwardly similar but opposite in actual idea, and Kautsky propelled that to the socialimperialism.
But it isn’t being called Lassalism-Bernsteinism-Kautskyism, it’s just being called “socialdemocracy”. Most succdems just don’t know nor care about their origins. This one is a rare one that do know at least something.
I’m a Gaddafist-Bidenist with imperialist tendencies
Lmfao holy shit.
What too much (online) theory does to a mfers
Did you mean to post this in /c/shitultrassay?
No, Kautskyism is opportunism, part of socialdemocracy, not an ultra tendency. Same with christian socialism.
