I’m new here. I don’t really know anything about the Lemmy devs.
But…that tweet is not particularly transphobic? I’m going to take a hard look at anyone who uses the phrase “the transgender topic”. But if that’s the best proof that the Lemmy devs are transphobic, it’s not terribly convincing.
Things like that get parroted as ‘common sense’ so often by conservatives and our brains tend to start ignoring it as obviously false. Then it becomes easy to not notice the same phrasing in other contexts, since we are used to actively dismissing that kind of bullshit.
Women’s sports exist because men excluded women from mainstream sports for social reasons dressed up as biological reasons like ‘their uterus might fall out’, not for actual biological reasons like average strength or stamina.
The only thing I really saw was the talking point about amab people in women’s sports, but I don’t think that itself is enough to jump to transphobe, I’ve heard really good arguments and data for both sides of it. The hatred is the real problem (in that specific debate)
I’m not going to form a solid opinion about someone with one tweet. I will certainly keep an eye out for more information.
(I don’t think using Lemmy profits this person? I don’t know. I care much more about supporting someone who may be transphobic than just knowing they exist.)
“Biological male” is a meaningless term generally used by transphobes. And the whole debate is transphobic on its face. Nobody cares about women’s sports at all, and now people jumping to"defend their sanctity" are just goofy.
I hate being that guy, but that’s false on a number of levels. If it was meaningless, hormone treatments and puberty blockers wouldn’t be something ever needed as part of treatment for dysphoria or transistioning.
There’s different bone structure signs often used in identification of cadavers and fossils. Different natural hormonal balances effect body growth and muscle development. They effect health risk factors and medical treatment in emergencies. Medical professionals don’t ask about biological sex just because they want to trigger someone’s dysphoria, they ask because it has measurable effects on treatment options.
There are measurable, quantifiable differences that can’t be hand waved away by the idea that someone is merely assigned a gender at birth. To claim otherwise is to claim that people requiring medical intervention for their dysphoria are faking or overemphasizing the necessity for them, and that simply changing their clothes should be enough. Biological sex is something that unfortunately exists outside of the purely social contstructs around gender and gender presentation.
I don’t have a solution in regards to the sports competition thing, and I hate with every fiber of my being that this shit has become a rallying cry for transphobes, but ignoring facts about the biological reality of sexual dipmorphism is denying that people can even have a mismatch between their biological sex and gender.
I understand the feeling that it doesn’t matter in nearly every situation in life, but when it comes to medicine and body development, if biological sex didn’t exist or matter than how could anyone need anything more than declaring their pronouns and changing how they dress?
It’s possible to go too far and end up in a place that deny the realities that cause dysphoria in the first place, and you’re there.
Thank you for your reply. I don’t think we disagree that much, but I’m afraid we may be miscommunicating a bit.
What determines “biological sex”?
Chromosomes? Except someone with Androgen Insensitivity may have XY chromosomes, but physically appear to be female.
Genitalia? But we have intersex people with ambiguous genitalia
Testosterone? Caster Semanya
Full disclosure: this seems more your field than mine. I don’t think I’m educating you, just trying to clarify my point. It seems like you’re arguing against “There’s no such thing as assigned gender at birth”. What I’m saying
that there is no objective way to categorize all humans into neat little sex boxes. Biological sex is a spectrum with most people either at the “male” point or the “female” point, but some examples everywhere in between.
I believe most of the medicinal/health stuff would is assumed to be chromosome based, but I don’t think there’s been a ton of research into whether it’s truly something genetics based from the chromosomes or from the long term effects of different hormone balances on someone’s body over the course of their life.
Given how relatively new a lot of these dysphoria treatments are, I think we’ll probably be learning a lot about where the differences actually come from in a generation or two as we see this stuff become more common.
When it comes to sports there really is not any question any more. Again, I’m not a physician, but any given sports body can determine what a trans woman needs to do to compete on a level playing field with cis women.
This is best evidenced by the lack of trans women superstars. Despite the Daily Wire’s recent magnum opus, trans women compete and lose all the time in women’s sports, it’s only the transphobes who have a problem with them competing at all.
Its always this same argument. Did you know that more than 99% of people do in fact fit into neat little boxes. One cannot base their entire argument on the outliers of a dataset thats just bad science.
Sure u can have a spectrum but thats not really relevent for a majority of people situations or cases. Same as u have the spectrum of how many fingers people have thats a spectrum somewhere bwtween 0 and infinity but calling a gloves manufacturer Philangaphobic for not accommodating people is ridiculous.
At some point we need to decide where we draw the boxes and most likly some people won’t qualify for either box so perhaps they can have their own. Ive been called transphobic for saying the trans should simply be lumped in with the disabled (for change room and bathroom purposes) i dont see how this is the case it just seems like a practical solution given the relative population distribution and well established infrastructure.
It’s transphobic to call transpeople biological males.
It’s very curious that Hexbear doesn’t take any issue with this. They did take issue with it until the admins told them to not talk about it, and like good little free-thinkers they no longer do.
shhh, no one point out that Lemmy’s devs are transphobic
I’m new here. I don’t really know anything about the Lemmy devs.
But…that tweet is not particularly transphobic? I’m going to take a hard look at anyone who uses the phrase “the transgender topic”. But if that’s the best proof that the Lemmy devs are transphobic, it’s not terribly convincing.Not really sure how I misread the tweet.
The part about “allowing biological men to compete in women’s sports” confirms that “the transgender topic” is not just a sketchy phrasing.
I’m sorry, apparently I can’t read. I somehow glossed over that part. Thanks for the clarification.
Things like that get parroted as ‘common sense’ so often by conservatives and our brains tend to start ignoring it as obviously false. Then it becomes easy to not notice the same phrasing in other contexts, since we are used to actively dismissing that kind of bullshit.
Whats wrong with that? Its a factual statement.
Women’s sports exist because men excluded women from mainstream sports for social reasons dressed up as biological reasons like ‘their uterus might fall out’, not for actual biological reasons like average strength or stamina.
Whats this got to do with the current discussion? Why or how womens sports exist has zero relevance biological men competing in them.
The only thing I really saw was the talking point about amab people in women’s sports, but I don’t think that itself is enough to jump to transphobe, I’ve heard really good arguments and data for both sides of it. The hatred is the real problem (in that specific debate)
I’m not going to form a solid opinion about someone with one tweet. I will certainly keep an eye out for more information.
(I don’t think using Lemmy profits this person? I don’t know. I care much more about supporting someone who may be transphobic than just knowing they exist.)
“Biological male” is a meaningless term generally used by transphobes. And the whole debate is transphobic on its face. Nobody cares about women’s sports at all, and now people jumping to"defend their sanctity" are just goofy.
I hate being that guy, but that’s false on a number of levels. If it was meaningless, hormone treatments and puberty blockers wouldn’t be something ever needed as part of treatment for dysphoria or transistioning.
There’s different bone structure signs often used in identification of cadavers and fossils. Different natural hormonal balances effect body growth and muscle development. They effect health risk factors and medical treatment in emergencies. Medical professionals don’t ask about biological sex just because they want to trigger someone’s dysphoria, they ask because it has measurable effects on treatment options.
There are measurable, quantifiable differences that can’t be hand waved away by the idea that someone is merely assigned a gender at birth. To claim otherwise is to claim that people requiring medical intervention for their dysphoria are faking or overemphasizing the necessity for them, and that simply changing their clothes should be enough. Biological sex is something that unfortunately exists outside of the purely social contstructs around gender and gender presentation.
I don’t have a solution in regards to the sports competition thing, and I hate with every fiber of my being that this shit has become a rallying cry for transphobes, but ignoring facts about the biological reality of sexual dipmorphism is denying that people can even have a mismatch between their biological sex and gender.
I understand the feeling that it doesn’t matter in nearly every situation in life, but when it comes to medicine and body development, if biological sex didn’t exist or matter than how could anyone need anything more than declaring their pronouns and changing how they dress?
It’s possible to go too far and end up in a place that deny the realities that cause dysphoria in the first place, and you’re there.
Thank you for your reply. I don’t think we disagree that much, but I’m afraid we may be miscommunicating a bit.
What determines “biological sex”?
Chromosomes? Except someone with Androgen Insensitivity may have XY chromosomes, but physically appear to be female.
Genitalia? But we have intersex people with ambiguous genitalia
Testosterone? Caster Semanya
Full disclosure: this seems more your field than mine. I don’t think I’m educating you, just trying to clarify my point. It seems like you’re arguing against “There’s no such thing as assigned gender at birth”. What I’m saying that there is no objective way to categorize all humans into neat little sex boxes. Biological sex is a spectrum with most people either at the “male” point or the “female” point, but some examples everywhere in between.
No disagreement here.
I believe most of the medicinal/health stuff would is assumed to be chromosome based, but I don’t think there’s been a ton of research into whether it’s truly something genetics based from the chromosomes or from the long term effects of different hormone balances on someone’s body over the course of their life.
Given how relatively new a lot of these dysphoria treatments are, I think we’ll probably be learning a lot about where the differences actually come from in a generation or two as we see this stuff become more common.
When it comes to sports there really is not any question any more. Again, I’m not a physician, but any given sports body can determine what a trans woman needs to do to compete on a level playing field with cis women.
This is best evidenced by the lack of trans women superstars. Despite the Daily Wire’s recent magnum opus, trans women compete and lose all the time in women’s sports, it’s only the transphobes who have a problem with them
competingat all.Its always this same argument. Did you know that more than 99% of people do in fact fit into neat little boxes. One cannot base their entire argument on the outliers of a dataset thats just bad science.
Sure u can have a spectrum but thats not really relevent for a majority of people situations or cases. Same as u have the spectrum of how many fingers people have thats a spectrum somewhere bwtween 0 and infinity but calling a gloves manufacturer Philangaphobic for not accommodating people is ridiculous.
At some point we need to decide where we draw the boxes and most likly some people won’t qualify for either box so perhaps they can have their own. Ive been called transphobic for saying the trans should simply be lumped in with the disabled (for change room and bathroom purposes) i dont see how this is the case it just seems like a practical solution given the relative population distribution and well established infrastructure.
Lol. Can’t imagine why someone would call you transphobic for “lump in the trans with the disabled”. LMAO.
I regret being so polite earlier. ✌🏾
Whata wrong with that ur not implying its insulting to be grouped with the differently abled arw you?
For the record, check the usernames, lol. That wasn’t me.
How is that transphobic? Im genuinely asking cos i dont see what ur talking about.
Same. That said, I also don’t really care what the Lemmy devs believe, I only care that they make competent software.
It’d be nice if they could do that. They spend more time ranting than they do coding.
piedfed is a very good lemmy alternative using the same network. See this our very thread on piefed. It has more features and is faster.
seems a bit empty. does it connect to the rest of the fediverse?
Yes, I provided a link to this thread viewed through piefed in my last post.
Yeah, sometimes it feels that way.
It’s transphobic to call transpeople biological males.
It’s very curious that Hexbear doesn’t take any issue with this. They did take issue with it until the admins told them to not talk about it, and like good little free-thinkers they no longer do.
The toot didnt do that tho did it?
“allowing biological men to compete in women’s sports at the Olympics”
If you don’t see how this person is explicitly calling trans women “biological men,” congrats on being in the 54%
Yes
Yes it did or yes it didnt cos i dont see it?
Literally says ‘biological men’ right there in the screenshot. Calling trans people biological men is classic transphobia
How is an objectivly provable scientific fact that is not disparaging or rude in any way transphobic?
I’m not going to define transphobia for you. You’ll have to do that yourself.
I have to give you a warning to drop this topic