PARIS—“Do I really have to answer that question? I’m certainly not voting for the person leading the Republican Party.” That was the response of communist icon Angela Davis when a journalist asked about her intentions for the 2024 U.S.
Oh, you only want no genocide and not no killing? Do you have a soul? You’re such a monster!
We can go on forever saying some things are worse than others. Eventually you have to accept you don’t have a choice of perfection, and you never will.
There is no way to write that sentence without a double-negative. Quotes could have differentiated it (not “no killing”), but there’s no alternative with the same meaning that isn’t a double-negative (at least that I’m aware of).
I’m sorry, I don’t have a bomber. That is not a choice I have. I also am not a member of the International Court of Justice nor am I an attorney or a UN representative. I don’t really have any power to enforce the Geneva convention. By the way you’re speaking it appears you do and you should use that power instead of telling others they aren’t doing it.
What does boycotting the election do that is any different than if I just didn’t exist? If they can just ignore me, then what effect does that have that forces them to change? It would appear effectively being non-existent is the cowardly option.
You speak a big game, but you don’t actually play it. Its easy to say something isn’t enough, but what actually would be? I can always point to a flaw. A coward would say “I’m just not going to do anything.” Someone who actually cares will accept that they have a moral responsibility to do what they can to achieve the best outcome, even if that outcome isn’t perfect and still has massive moral flaws, because the alternative would only be worse.
Being cowardly and letting the worst option come to fruition is true moral degeneracy. The Palestinians that die from US support ramping up will be on everyone’s hands, and especially those who chose it or didn’t try to prevent it, including those from outside trying to make other do so.
The reality is that there are thousand of choices but propaganda makes you believe there’s only two. The world and society weren’t build by the red and blue party.
Aspirationally, of course there are more than two choices. Realistically, only two of those have a chance at success. The US electoral system has ensured this. The way to fix the system is to elect those who want to change it for the better, not those who wish to destroy it and all it stands for.
Realistically until elections are over everyone has the same change of winning because ballot polls are hypothetical. Voting is not the only way you have to change things for good. The same way there’s people advocating for corrupted parties you can waste your energies on something more useful.
And as you smile smugly to yourself about your moral superiority for choosing philosophy over the unfortunate situation that is reality, women die due to lack of reasonable healthcare, minorities and those deemed “deviant” by fundamentalists are oppressed, and the genocide in Palestine is ramped up and overtly supported by American interests because the right doesn’t do this kind of philosophical masturbation and thus handily wins the election.
Look, I want to see the end of the binary too, but only an ignorant person thinks you can win a race by being dropped off at the finish line and walking 2 steps. The end of the binary will not come from a surprise upset Presidential election out of nowhere. It just won’t. Not today, not ever. If you actually give a shit about making a change and not just feeling above it all personally, you’d be out on the streets in non election years working to legitimize third party candidates in viable lower and local races where they can win and affect change outside the party system. And if you’re somewhere where that has already happened, you’d be working with them to extend their reach, pushing their influence further. Or you’d be running locally as a third-party candidate yourself.
And if you are already doing that, first off thank you so much, but secondly, then you must understand what a difficult uphill battle the fight is and more importantly you must understand you can’t just skip ahead to the finish line.
You mention that voting is not the only way to change things for good and you are absolutely right. Hell, I’d say it’s not even one of the primary ways. But what voting is is one of the highest return on investment ways of effecting change; the amount of effect it takes to vote is beyond nominal, practically insignificant, yet the consequences have significant real world impact. Not smartly utilizing your vote is like being hungry in a cabin in the woods and taking a knife out hunt a wild boar for food when there is a literal ham sandwich in a ziploc bag in the fridge waiting for you.
But what voting is is one of the highest return on investment ways of effecting change
I’m constantly working on local stuff, my vote has never made any kind of a difference - I live in an urban area jerrymandered to include as much of the suburbs as possible, they vote in lockstep to keep their taxes low and poors out. They are bipartisan about that. The local democratic committees are all just full of the family of people running for office and nobody with good politics has the time or energy to participate in the democratic party
I’m in a blue state, I’ve voted every year for decades, it’s always felt like a waste of time. Any time I ask elected representatives about something they didn’t already want to do they (or their staff) tell me to fuck off.
Seems a great time to see the section of my comment about legitimizing or running as a third party in your community to effect change on the local level, then.
The point of my comment was not to be satisfied, it is that change doesn’t start at the finish line. If you are fed up and think your vote is worthless, then do something about it rather than impotently protesting which accomplishes nothing but throwing away that tiny bit of power you did wield.
Here’s the deal guys: nobody is coming to save you. Not Harris or Trump, but also not Stein, or Bernie, or anyone else. There is never going to be a time when you can just vote and suddenly things are all sunshine and rainbows. Change takes work, and we’re discussing enormous change on a massive scale.
Or, let me offer you a counterpoint - maybe the democrats in your area aren’t a lost cause. Maybe they can be better utilized, motivated, incentivized, etc. Going back to the change takes work/nobody is coming to save you bit, what have you personally done to change the situation in area beyond voting or donation?
Sure, every voter in the country could suddenly and radically change their minds about who to vote for, but we both know that isn’t going to happen, because it’s never happened. The only time that a third party has ever upset an established party is when the Republicans threw out the Whigs before the American Civil War. They did that through years of lead-up and messaging, along with a growing emancipation movement. You’re not changing anyone’s minds that radically this close to an election.
Believe it or not, I don’t spend most of my day voting or responding to internet comments.
Nobody asks you to fix America, they asked you what choice you would make.
Here are the options:
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 10,000 people dying
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 5,000 people dying
-You can abstain and guarantee that the candidate that represents 10,000 people dying wins.
These are your options. There are no other options. So maybe you value your own personal moral integrity more than the lives of 5,000 people, but any reasonable person will see that the second option is the only viable choice if you actually want to be decent.
Cool man, you successfully recognized that class divide exists in the US just as much as anywhere else and that the ruling class are a minority whose decisions don’t represent the working class. Kudos to you for your next-level observation skills!
Here’s the thing though: even if we do spark up the fires of revolution tomorrow, you know what? It’s probably gonna take more than a month. In the meantime, there is still going to be an American president and there is still going to be an election the fate of which will still have real world impact immediately, including in regards to the Palestinian genocide. Which means even if we’re marching up on the White House in victory 8 months (imagining an impossibly best-case fictional scenario here) for now we still have the weight of the choice for President and the inordinate amount of very real lives that decision impacts, both domestically and abroad. So again, any decent person will make the moral choice for harm reduction; whether they acknowledge more needs to be on the personal level to solve the greater issues or not.
Stop letting your childish hateboner for America steal all the blood flow from your brain.
That’s more of a general human trait than an American one. Yes, Americans are very fond of their exceptionalism, but valuing the lives of your own tribe and kin more than those of others is something most mammals share. I dont want war anywhere in the world. I hope you have a nice day.
That’s exactly the problem, no one can force Netanyahu to do anything. He’s complety off his rocker. He’s doing everything to stay in power, because the moment he’s not, the courts will go after him. That’s why he’s trying to appease both those pushing for peace (Yes, I actually mean Biden here) and the warmongers (Israeli right wingers). Notice how he hasn’t gotten all the hostages back? That’s on purpose. The longer the war goes on, the better for him.
Now, who do you rather want in the White House next year? A feeble old man who will go along with everything Bibi says? Or an experienced prosecutor who can put her foot down?
I’m sorry for your friends. They need to leave, now. If war came to my doorstep, that’s what I would do.
That’s exactly the problem, no one can force Netanyahu to do anything.
US government is supporting israel fascist government, they could have prevent the genocide by simply not arming israel to death and gifting them billions. They can still persuade israel government to stop by simply stopp aiding them but they are doing the opposite.
Please. When the serbs did genocide the NATO bombed Belgrade. Kadhaffi was gone in a week. You’re telling me the US doesn’t have leverage against Israel? Come on now. Quit giving them weapons otherwise you guys are complicit, as simple as that.
Dude, I understand that America is fucking awful right now but don’t bullshit about shit you don’t understand… Some people are just paying lip service or stalling but Bernie is really fucking trying.
The US gave them the 2 tons bomb that just exploded on an hospital. I don’t give a shit about trump. You are american. Trump is your fault and your responsability. You fix trump. You fight against trump instead of being a little coward thinking he will stop fascism by casting his little ballot. And then you put the warcrimers in jail and drop the key.
Yanks are monsters omg “a little less genocide”. Do you guys fucking hear yourself?
Lol. What a lot of effort it must be to project your preconceptions on some rando on the internet. How do you know I don’t give a shit? That seeing these things doesn’t hurt me to my core? What do you want me to do, go out and start murdering politicians? Sit down and think for a few minutes before writing your next comment.
You’re a monster. “A slightly less painful genocide”? Do you hear yourself?
Welcome to the real world. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils. It’s terrible but it is also your best course of action.
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yep, and you voting for twice the amount of killing, when it wasn’t necessary. History, what a bitch
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Some infinities are larger than others.
Most people prefer less genocide. It’s quite good for it to be scarce.
What about no genocide omg. Do you have a soul?
Oh, you only want no genocide and not no killing? Do you have a soul? You’re such a monster!
We can go on forever saying some things are worse than others. Eventually you have to accept you don’t have a choice of perfection, and you never will.
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There is no way to write that sentence without a double-negative. Quotes could have differentiated it (not “no killing”), but there’s no alternative with the same meaning that isn’t a double-negative (at least that I’m aware of).
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I’m sorry, I don’t have a bomber. That is not a choice I have. I also am not a member of the International Court of Justice nor am I an attorney or a UN representative. I don’t really have any power to enforce the Geneva convention. By the way you’re speaking it appears you do and you should use that power instead of telling others they aren’t doing it.
What does boycotting the election do that is any different than if I just didn’t exist? If they can just ignore me, then what effect does that have that forces them to change? It would appear effectively being non-existent is the cowardly option.
You speak a big game, but you don’t actually play it. Its easy to say something isn’t enough, but what actually would be? I can always point to a flaw. A coward would say “I’m just not going to do anything.” Someone who actually cares will accept that they have a moral responsibility to do what they can to achieve the best outcome, even if that outcome isn’t perfect and still has massive moral flaws, because the alternative would only be worse.
Being cowardly and letting the worst option come to fruition is true moral degeneracy. The Palestinians that die from US support ramping up will be on everyone’s hands, and especially those who chose it or didn’t try to prevent it, including those from outside trying to make other do so.
The reality is there are only two choices. Which will you choose?
The reality is that there are thousand of choices but propaganda makes you believe there’s only two. The world and society weren’t build by the red and blue party.
Aspirationally, of course there are more than two choices. Realistically, only two of those have a chance at success. The US electoral system has ensured this. The way to fix the system is to elect those who want to change it for the better, not those who wish to destroy it and all it stands for.
Realistically until elections are over everyone has the same change of winning because ballot polls are hypothetical. Voting is not the only way you have to change things for good. The same way there’s people advocating for corrupted parties you can waste your energies on something more useful.
And as you smile smugly to yourself about your moral superiority for choosing philosophy over the unfortunate situation that is reality, women die due to lack of reasonable healthcare, minorities and those deemed “deviant” by fundamentalists are oppressed, and the genocide in Palestine is ramped up and overtly supported by American interests because the right doesn’t do this kind of philosophical masturbation and thus handily wins the election.
Look, I want to see the end of the binary too, but only an ignorant person thinks you can win a race by being dropped off at the finish line and walking 2 steps. The end of the binary will not come from a surprise upset Presidential election out of nowhere. It just won’t. Not today, not ever. If you actually give a shit about making a change and not just feeling above it all personally, you’d be out on the streets in non election years working to legitimize third party candidates in viable lower and local races where they can win and affect change outside the party system. And if you’re somewhere where that has already happened, you’d be working with them to extend their reach, pushing their influence further. Or you’d be running locally as a third-party candidate yourself.
And if you are already doing that, first off thank you so much, but secondly, then you must understand what a difficult uphill battle the fight is and more importantly you must understand you can’t just skip ahead to the finish line.
You mention that voting is not the only way to change things for good and you are absolutely right. Hell, I’d say it’s not even one of the primary ways. But what voting is is one of the highest return on investment ways of effecting change; the amount of effect it takes to vote is beyond nominal, practically insignificant, yet the consequences have significant real world impact. Not smartly utilizing your vote is like being hungry in a cabin in the woods and taking a knife out hunt a wild boar for food when there is a literal ham sandwich in a ziploc bag in the fridge waiting for you.
I’m constantly working on local stuff, my vote has never made any kind of a difference - I live in an urban area jerrymandered to include as much of the suburbs as possible, they vote in lockstep to keep their taxes low and poors out. They are bipartisan about that. The local democratic committees are all just full of the family of people running for office and nobody with good politics has the time or energy to participate in the democratic party
I’m in a blue state, I’ve voted every year for decades, it’s always felt like a waste of time. Any time I ask elected representatives about something they didn’t already want to do they (or their staff) tell me to fuck off.
Seems a great time to see the section of my comment about legitimizing or running as a third party in your community to effect change on the local level, then.
The point of my comment was not to be satisfied, it is that change doesn’t start at the finish line. If you are fed up and think your vote is worthless, then do something about it rather than impotently protesting which accomplishes nothing but throwing away that tiny bit of power you did wield.
Here’s the deal guys: nobody is coming to save you. Not Harris or Trump, but also not Stein, or Bernie, or anyone else. There is never going to be a time when you can just vote and suddenly things are all sunshine and rainbows. Change takes work, and we’re discussing enormous change on a massive scale.
Or, let me offer you a counterpoint - maybe the democrats in your area aren’t a lost cause. Maybe they can be better utilized, motivated, incentivized, etc. Going back to the change takes work/nobody is coming to save you bit, what have you personally done to change the situation in area beyond voting or donation?
Sure, every voter in the country could suddenly and radically change their minds about who to vote for, but we both know that isn’t going to happen, because it’s never happened. The only time that a third party has ever upset an established party is when the Republicans threw out the Whigs before the American Civil War. They did that through years of lead-up and messaging, along with a growing emancipation movement. You’re not changing anyone’s minds that radically this close to an election.
Believe it or not, I don’t spend most of my day voting or responding to internet comments.
US libs value Americans© lifes more than us nonyanks. Well I’m ever asked the same question, I will not show any solidarity with them. I hope you guys get the civil war you started in so many foreign countries.
So no actual answer then?
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Nobody asks you to fix America, they asked you what choice you would make.
Here are the options:
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 10,000 people dying
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 5,000 people dying
-You can abstain and guarantee that the candidate that represents 10,000 people dying wins.
These are your options. There are no other options. So maybe you value your own personal moral integrity more than the lives of 5,000 people, but any reasonable person will see that the second option is the only viable choice if you actually want to be decent.
edit: formating
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Cool man, you successfully recognized that class divide exists in the US just as much as anywhere else and that the ruling class are a minority whose decisions don’t represent the working class. Kudos to you for your next-level observation skills!
Here’s the thing though: even if we do spark up the fires of revolution tomorrow, you know what? It’s probably gonna take more than a month. In the meantime, there is still going to be an American president and there is still going to be an election the fate of which will still have real world impact immediately, including in regards to the Palestinian genocide. Which means even if we’re marching up on the White House in victory 8 months (imagining an impossibly best-case fictional scenario here) for now we still have the weight of the choice for President and the inordinate amount of very real lives that decision impacts, both domestically and abroad. So again, any decent person will make the moral choice for harm reduction; whether they acknowledge more needs to be on the personal level to solve the greater issues or not.
Stop letting your childish hateboner for America steal all the blood flow from your brain.
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That’s more of a general human trait than an American one. Yes, Americans are very fond of their exceptionalism, but valuing the lives of your own tribe and kin more than those of others is something most mammals share. I dont want war anywhere in the world. I hope you have a nice day.
Then please write your politician to tell them to force netanyahu to calm his tits.
My gf have friends in lebannon. She have friends from gaza. She hurts.
Please?
That’s exactly the problem, no one can force Netanyahu to do anything. He’s complety off his rocker. He’s doing everything to stay in power, because the moment he’s not, the courts will go after him. That’s why he’s trying to appease both those pushing for peace (Yes, I actually mean Biden here) and the warmongers (Israeli right wingers). Notice how he hasn’t gotten all the hostages back? That’s on purpose. The longer the war goes on, the better for him. Now, who do you rather want in the White House next year? A feeble old man who will go along with everything Bibi says? Or an experienced prosecutor who can put her foot down?
I’m sorry for your friends. They need to leave, now. If war came to my doorstep, that’s what I would do.
US government is supporting israel fascist government, they could have prevent the genocide by simply not arming israel to death and gifting them billions. They can still persuade israel government to stop by simply stopp aiding them but they are doing the opposite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
Please. When the serbs did genocide the NATO bombed Belgrade. Kadhaffi was gone in a week. You’re telling me the US doesn’t have leverage against Israel? Come on now. Quit giving them weapons otherwise you guys are complicit, as simple as that.
I’d love to. Alas, all political power vested in me is in the form of a ballot. And I’ve already voted not to make the situation worse.
That’s bullshit. That line of thinking makes you complicit with the atrocities committed in your name.
Voting is absolutely not the only way to make your voice heard. Quite the opposite. You ate the carrot, you’re still obeying the farmer.
I’ve done so, Peter Welch is solidly against genocide and Bernie Sanders is trying congressional wizardry to try and cut off arms shipments.
Yeah you guys have been trying for a year now. Maybe stop trying and do something.
Dude, I understand that America is fucking awful right now but don’t bullshit about shit you don’t understand… Some people are just paying lip service or stalling but Bernie is really fucking trying.
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-and-colleagues-move-to-block-arms-sales-to-israel/
I know he is mate but I do not believe the US governement will lift the pinky.
Admitting gaza is a ghetto would be admitting putting indians in reserves wasn’t cool either
It’s not my responsibility to fix your goddamn country. Stop supporting genocide.
Are you implying the USA has a functional democracy whose actions follow the will of the people?
Fair point
Not your responsibility? Oh, okay. Then feel free to refrain from contributing to the conversation.
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You okay?
People here are not in charge of the Israeli government you know.
Or you meant the Russo Ukrainian war? Well then I sure hope Kamala wins too.
What about the Uyghurs? Shal we vote thirdparty so donald can give a full go to China there too?
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The US gave them the 2 tons bomb that just exploded on an hospital. I don’t give a shit about trump. You are american. Trump is your fault and your responsability. You fix trump. You fight against trump instead of being a little coward thinking he will stop fascism by casting his little ballot. And then you put the warcrimers in jail and drop the key.
Yanks are monsters omg “a little less genocide”. Do you guys fucking hear yourself?
Lol. What a lot of effort it must be to project your preconceptions on some rando on the internet. How do you know I don’t give a shit? That seeing these things doesn’t hurt me to my core? What do you want me to do, go out and start murdering politicians? Sit down and think for a few minutes before writing your next comment.
All right I’m sorry.
If you want your heavily censored american-only echo-chamber there’s a website called reddit you could go to.
You sound upset, is everything okay?
Yes actually I got my daddy’s guitar so I’m learnin how to play tunbalalaika like a true antisemite.