Related to the ForumWG topic of resolvable context collections, there are four FEPs that are currently in consideration:
- FEP-7888: Demystifying the context property
- FEP-400e: Publicly-appendable ActivityPub collections
- Draft FEP-171b: Conversation Containers, an evolution of Conversation Containers
- FEP-76ea: Conversation Threads
@[email protected] made a suggestion last month to hopefully reduce the number of moving parts:
- Both FEP-400e and FEP-1b12 implementations: support FEP-7888 (context collection)
- FEP-400e implementations: upgrade to Conversation Containers
- FEP-1b12 implementations: add target property to Announce activity that points to context collection.
This takes FEP 400e out of the running (potentially). But the day after that last meeting, @[email protected] put together FEP 76ea, and now we’re back to three.
My concern is that all three FEPs (7888, 171b, and 76ea) all share these distinct qualities:
- They establish a conversational context for a given object
- They federate out an
Addon collection addition. (76ea also sendsRemove) - They contain some concept of a context owner (
attributedTo)
They differ on the following qualities:
- 7888/171b use
contextwhereas 76ea uses a new propertythr:thread - 171b specifies a new object type
Context - Collection items:
- 7888 sends objects in chronological order
- 171b sends activities in chronological order
- 76ea sends objects in reverse chronological order
In the lead up to the November WG meeting I’d like to address those differences. All three FEPs are in pre-draft or draft stages, and so I am hoping we can find some common ground and compromise.
Pinging interested parties (who were not already mentioned above) for comment:
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
@julian @silverpill @trwnh @erincandescent @mikedev @[email protected] obviously
contextisn’t good enough to identify the thread relationship. Trying to hijack it is contrary to the AS2 spec and common interoperability. One proposal tries to specify it by duck-typing every object; the other by defining a new Collection type. The clearest way to define the relationship is with a property,thread, which is specific, clear, and requires no other changes.@julian @silverpill @trwnh @erincandescent @mikedev I think most developers understand that the reply tree and the conversation are identical. The use cases a describes – forking, etc. – can be implemented with
Announce, perhaps withcontentin theAnnounceactivity. I’ll add these next week and push a new draft.@julian @silverpill @trwnh @erincandescent @mikedev I think
contextcan be used as a fallback, which provides continuity for most of the legacy implementations.@evan @julian @silverpill @trwnh @mikedev “context” isn’t good enough to identify any relationship; this is the fundamental problem. It is a property that should never have existed. Today it identifies one relationship: the (loosely defined) thread. I would argue that this is in fact “common interoperability”. I would also argue that this fully meets the incredibly vague letter of the ActivityStreams specification.
I have yet to see an alternative use of context that would not be better served by inventing a more specific term. Yes, this applies to use of context for thread too, but we have 7 years of its user to identify the thread as a defacto standard.
@erincandescent @julian @mikedev @silverpill @trwnh there are other uses called out in the AV spec. Someone using those would clash with the use for threads.
I recognize your aversion to change, but “don’t change anything” isn’t on the menu. We need a way to identify the thread relationship, and a dedicated property is much better than a duck-typing objects or making a new object type.
@erincandescent @julian @mikedev @silverpill @trwnh we have many orders of magnitude more AS2 objects in our future than in our past. I don’t think informal practices of existing software should keep us from implementing better formal systems in the future.