When this happened Meg O’neil ran around town exclaiming how fearful she’d been. But the cops were there, at her house, waiting for the activists.
And whats happened since? Has the Woodside exec been hassled? I haven’t heard about anything more. The activists have though. Who should actually be afraid of who in this situation?
That seems like a retaliation to the people saying they weren’t targeting the right people when protestors blocked traffic - well now they’re targeting the right people!
They’ve done something similar and Redditors still got mad because they said it was going too far. The reality is that a lot of people don’t like protests and will continue to shift the goal posts until you’re nothing more than an easily ignorable group holding signs on the side of the road.
Yeah but now it doesnt affect them so they dont give a shit.
Same thing happened in the UK, block traffic and they say you’re just hurting normal working people trying to go about their day, which is a fair criticism. So they targeted the PMs house, then got more moral pearl clutching by the same parties. Which slim group of locations and people are legitimate protest targets then?
Nothing is. It’s never been a legitimate criticism. It has always been an attempt at justifying a stance against the idea of protesting at all.
Hi all. Really glad this has provoked a robust debate. But there have been some Rule violations. I’ll leave them up but a more civil tone needs to be struck from here on.
Idiots. Fucking idiots.
It’s great that they want to take action on climate change but it’s daft to think that these sorts of actions are going to achieve anything at all.
What were they actually planning to do? Throw some paint balloons and someone lock themselves to a gate and “say something profound” ?!
Even if they dissuaded whoever from doing whatever, woodside would just appoint someone else to do it?
Gerard the strategy guy should be relegated to handing out the kombucha .
When they glued themselves to the streets it was broadly criticized that the protesters were not targeting the ones responsible for climate change. That was already bs because people who choose a car for mobility are responsible for a part of climate change. Now when they are protesting against people who are even more responsible, like in this case, people like you criticize them for that. It seems like you would prefer if they would not protest at all.
I’m criticising them for being completely ineffective. Worse than that even - counter productive, because they undermine effective climate change activism.
Please describe what is effective climate change activism in your opinion, because I am unsure what you mean by that.
Effective climate change activism would mitigate climate change in some way.
These guys achieved absolutely nothing.
Are you able to explain what the objective was?
How many books have you read on political theory?
Who are your favorite critics of peoples movements and the history of protest politics?
This is an open question to all.
I have read 4-5 books on political theory, most of them on Marxism and various sects of anarchal socialism. Probably two dozen journal articles.
My favourite author is some guy out of a French university who published on contemporary civil disobedience a couple of years ago. And I certainly like the classics; Thoreau, Gandhi and ML King.
My favourite critic of nonviolent protest is Fred Hampton.
I have read 4-5 books
Amazing.
Can you give an example? what activism would mitigate climate change?
Yes. Can you?
Effective climate change activism would mitigate climate change in some way.
Just like you mitigate answering my question, troll -> blocked
Ah yes, the hallmark of enlightened debate: block people that ask uncomfortable questions.
No one has answered my simple question: what were these people hoping to achieve?
You are talking about them. Seems quite effective.
Well “talking about” yes - but are these people really our best ambassadors? They can’t be our best and brightest surely.
So we should patiently wait for things to change by voting every few years?
Protests are what changed the world for the better.
We need nukes
You may well ask: ‘Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?’ You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation
Who is this quote from? Whoever they are, they put their case very well.
Gandhi
Wow. I think i’ll need to pay more attention to what he taught
Eh, he was also kinda creepy in some of his stuff too. As with everything, take the good, drop the bad.
My whole point, is that the “activists” in question were completely unsuccessful in creating any “tension” whatsoever.
Removed by mod
You totally had me until you got offensive. Just like DogMuffins comment getting offensive is also not particularly constructive you know.
I totally had you? Like I’m some tricksky little hobbitses that almost made you think taters was nice until I said a mean thing too?
Their using offensive words wasn’t my main problem with their post, it was the suppressive dismissal of protestors, so you pointing out my hypocrisy of also being a meanypants doesn’t really bother me. The planet is dying, they’re mad that people are mad, and you’re mad I didn’t say “that’s a ridiculous position” in a nice enough way? K.
Did you even read my comment to DogMuffins post? https://lemmy.world/comment/4341772
I totally had you? Like I’m some tricksky little hobbitses that almost made you think taters was nice until I said a mean thing too?
No not at all, I am mad (depressed would be more precise) about climate change as well and I do agree with you, except for the small offensive part at the end. I think I communicated that pretty clearly and you somehow misunderstood. You should calm down a little, I am not your enemy. I understand how angry you are because I was extremely angry too until being depressed about it became dominant. I just think that the tone people use on lemmy matters and I don´t like the toxic reddit style tone I am seeing here, that´s all.
I’m sorry you’re feeling depressed, really. It can be depressing, what’s happening globaly. Your feelings are valid considering the circumstances, but I’m sorry they’re causing you pain. I hope you feel a sense of peace and renew your fighting spirit for Earth. I didn’t mean to mischaracterise which negative emotion you felt about the tone of my post, I should have been less specific when I said “mad”. Sorry for that.
I do agree that tone is important, and my tone could have been better, you’re right. In fact, I’ve been warned I violated rule 2 in private by a mod. I’ve promised to try to do better. Hopefully this comment has kept to that promise but I’ll abide by whatever the mods decide.
Tone is important, but content of the message is, in my opinion, more important than the tone. I don’t think you’re my enemy, I just think you’re letting the decor distract from the architecture and engineering.
I´m happy we manged to turn this around. I wish you all the best!
Sure mate.
Holding in a fart just now has achieved more than these nimrods.
What a thoughtful response. I really appreciate how you offered multiple points in which the protestors could improve their messaging. Your insightful critique is sure to bring success in combating man made climate change. Thank you for your help! ( Was that friendly enough, NakedMole?)
Oh yes, well done! I wish I could upvote more than once and I am very proud of you! /s
Seriously though - I asked the guy two hours ago
Please describe what is effective climate change activism in your opinion, because I am unsure what you mean by that.
The question was ignored, so the guy really seems to be just a troll unworthy of a discussion. I propose we just ignore him from now on.
Spoken like someone who is afraid to even try
