i can’t even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
Blame the at most 2 million or so antigenocide protestors, instead of the 75 million who voted for Trump. Considering Harris was short 8 million votes, it didn’t really matter.
Blame Trump voters first, but also blame Harris for running a dog shit campaign where she leaned right to pickup Republicans, and ended up picking up zero R voters while completely alienating the progressives and losing 14 million votes from Biden’s 2020 performance.
The Dems don’t seem too upset though. They would rather lose to the republicans than let progressives have any sort of power.
It is not only that she ran to the right but she did so with Liz Cheney who represents the old guard that is no longer trusted by them. She is nothing but a liability and is moreso indicative of the rot in the establishment which seems to identify more with Republican-lite than anything the rank and file of the party wants. That same establishment is trying to decide which minority to throw under the bus now rather than own up to their failures.
Yeah, the young MAGAts I work with don’t like that old crew of Rs. People like Cheney campaigning with Harris was another reason for them to vote for Trump. Sane people know the whole “drain the swamp” thing is bullshit but a lot of his supporters buy that bullshit, and Cheney is definitely a swamp creature.
She needed a little over 230k (at last count) in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
But you did
Didn’t really think there was that many of them on here. I feel like every time I see memes like this on here it’s just people preaching to the choir.
Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris. Gaza was a losing issue for Harris and this attention just kept it front and center. Sad to see the obsession continue.
Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don’t vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she kept telling struggling families that the economy is great.
Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris.
This is exactly why so many dug their heels in. The idea of leftists making a weird or nonsensical decision baffled and enraged many other leftists and liberals, the unhealthy obsession metastasized to full-blown cancer towards the election, I swear the left was arguing more with itself than the MAGA’s, and that’s also by design, nobody wants to debate the right because they’re insane, so better focus efforts on those who supposedly want the same thing, right?
The funny thing about the human mind that nobody gets yet is that attention is more important than what kind of attention, the fact that their obstinance about not voting democrat was getting them so much attention, making them feel like the persecuted minority, getting support from like-minds, it just created a mini-MAGA front. And sure, it probably wouldn’t have changed the election but it shows clearly how the only thing standing between us and a better future is our own idiocy as a species. Every damn time, we’re going to sabotage our collective future because of our personal feelings. MAGA are just people less aware of the world and more happy to be who they are. That’s the only difference between us.
Adding in an edit: downvote it all you want, you know it’s true. Hell, in his last election he DID lose the popular vote. Some democracy. More voters, actual people who took the time and effort to go and actually vote, wanted a different president, and got shown their votes don’t matter unless they live in a swing state.
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Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don’t vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she
kept telling struggling families that the economy is greathas a vagina.Fixed that for you.
Also she didn’t lose the pop vote by a huge margin. 3 million people is literally 1 percent of the population.
If this were a democracy and pop vote mattered, there are probably 10x that number of people who would have actually voted. Then I’d guess she would have won. Look at (greater area) Chicago. 9.5m people. 12 million people total in IL. how many Illinoisans didn’t vote because why does it matter? About 2 million probably.
Disclaimer: That last paragraph was obviously arbitrary.
Interesting that you seem to assume that Harris would have done better with the people who didn’t vote than with the people who did.
A Democrats losing the popular vote to a Republican by 1% is a huge margin. What matters isn’t the entire population, it’s the swing voters.
Democrats straddle the desires of their wealthy patrons and the desires of voters. They always try to give the people just enough to scrape by. The result is that we consistently have elections with tight margins. Democrats are playing a game of high stakes chicken every election.
Stop blaming vaginas for not getting votes
While establishing actual democracy is absolutely a priority, it’s not a guarantee that we would have had a better outcome. Australia has RCV and compulsory voting already, and are trending right anyways.
Friendly reminder that Joe Biden is still the president and could stop sending weapons to Israel right now if he wanted to. But he doesn’t.
Thank god Trump is taking over right.
Yeah, maybe the liberals who were out to brunch for the last four years might suddenly start giving a shit again. JK who am I kidding, the only thing liberals are capable of is marching around with signs peacefully while pissing their pants.
As ineffectual as the democrat party they simp for. Pathetic.
I don’t know how government works or what laws are.
Yeah we can tell.
It’s so weird. Gaza is extremely important and deserving of the attention. It’s genocide, and it’s horrific. But is no one else important? Because we can’t save Gaza immediately, it’s really better to set outselevs on fire so we can burn together? Like, real talk, Harris will be fine. Biden will be fine. It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
I wouldn’t say they’re gone though. I’ve been down voted, told “my kind/type” are all talk, or that I’m okay with murder, I voted for genocide, the usual. But I couldn’t sit and do nothing.
But I guess this is what they wanted. The dems have been taught a lesson, we’re moving headfirst into a dictatorship, and Gaza is no safer, but their conscious is clear, somehow.
It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
Already happening under biden. 🙄
I mean yes that’s true… but we already know the pattern, Trump is going to quintuple the pace and extremeness of it. The next democrat to win (if one ever does again), will continue the status quo set by the previous republican, possibly slightly reduce the acceleration of it (while still allowing it to accelerate).
And you will vote blue no matter who, continuing the cycle.
Let this country fucking burn. Let the boomers who voted this fraud in lose their social security and Medicare. They’ll learn.
It’s unlikely we’re making it 2030 between climate change and the risk of nukes.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they are Isreali or Russian psy ops accounts (or at least useful idiots that have bought the psy ops).
When the war started, Lemmy was overrun by the “criticism of Isreal is antisemetic” accounts. That was rejected pretty hard. Those guys disappeared, and the “never genocide” people took their place.
It almost seems like a change in tactics to achieve the same goal.
the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” accounts are gone because they were banned. Zionism and the insistence that a genocidal state is indivisible from an entire ethnic group is racism, and against most instance’s TOS.
“never genocide” content does not break TOS and so has lasted since october 7th through today. to the uninformed eye this dynamic might look like a change in tactic but really it’s just two different groups, one which got banned after a few days or weeks and one which did not.
just correcting your “change in tactics”/“it’s astroturfing” narrative. i don’t think it holds up in comparison to a much more likely explanation, and i might even use the word ludicrous to describe your argument unless you can provide further evidence.
Considering the fediverse’s low market share compared to non-federated alternatives, I’d be suprised if any malicious actors waste time and money running a psyops here. Like, you reach more people on Reddit for the same ammount of effort.
Psyops are everywhere
You’d reach more people on bigger platforms, but it is easier to steer the conversation with smaller groups. So I don’t think its totally clear-cut where the best psyops targets would be.
thank you for saying this skskkssk. Occam’s razor: is it more likely that foreign psy-ops have incredibly poor cost-benefit analysis skills (while excelling in everything else), or that a couple dozen people have deeply held beliefs that led them to be vocal in the midst of tragedy?
call me crazy but the latter narrative makes a lot fewer assumptions.
That is the exact mindset they are looking for.
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I don’t think astroturfing means what you think it means.
Oh, don’t worry, the conspiracy theory is capable of making sense of any incongruities like that, just like OP can explain away the fact that we didn’t actually disappear as predicted. You see, this is where the Russian bots practice their techniques and try out different lines before deploying them on a larger scale.
It’s not based on evidence or reason so the believers will never be convinced based on evidence or reason, same as any other conspiracy theory.
It was 100% astroturfing, 20% people falling for bullshit. Sounds like politics
15% concentrated power of shill.
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Absolutely! There is no doubt. Such fallacies is what they do. Mostly they go with “they are all the same”, then take an absolute approach attack on the principles of the left(er) political party.
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Out of curiosity, what wouldn’t you be willing to compromise on? If I had a party wanting to kill your mom and dad and another who just wants to kill your dad, would you make that compromise?
Perhaps a better, real-world example is that this moral calculus says that the Democrats should abandon trans people and trans issues. The logic is inescapable: Trans issues turn away a lot of voters, and it’s a really strong talking point for the other party. If they win, the Democrats could protect the LGB community, and women’s rights.
Surely it’s better to protect the LGB community and women’s rights, but not trans people, than to protect none of them, right?
(NB: This is rhetorical. I don’t believe it.)
Ummm…yes! Of course I would make that compromise! If I have a choice between they both die or one dies, of course I’m taking the choice where one lives!
What wouldn’t I be willing to compromise on? Nothing. If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?
If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?
The vast majority of people would choose worse, at least in some situations.
Philosopher Bernard Williams proposed this thought experiment: suppose someone has rounded up a group of 20 innocent people, and says that he will kill all of them, unless you agree to kill one, in which case he’ll let the rest go. Act Utilitarianism would suggest that it is not only morally permissible, but morally obligatory to comply, which Williams saw as absurd. As an addendum, suppose the person then orders you to round up another 20 people so he can repeat the experiment with someone else, and if you don’t, he’ll have his men kill 40 instead. Congratulations, your “lesser-evilist” ideology now has you working for a psychopath and recruiting more people to work for him too.
Even the trolley problem, which liberals love to trot out to justify their positions, is not nearly as clear cut as they try to pretend it is. A follow up to the trolley problem is, is it ethical to kill an innocent person in order to harvest their organs in order to give five people lifesaving transplants? The overwhelming majority of people say no.
Act Utilitarianism is something that seems intuitive at first glance, but is very difficult to actually defend under scrutiny, and there are many, many alternative moral frameworks that reject its assumptions and conclusions. Liberals don’t seem to realize that this framework they treat as absolute and objective - that you would have to be a “lunatic” to reject - is actually a specific ideology, and one that’s not particularly popular or robust.
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You seem to be missing the whole point. Maybe go calm down and stop calling people names.
Well, add another layer of complexity. The lesser of two evil guy wants to be picked. But instead of offering anything, he really wants to kill one of your parents and banks on your choice. He could of guaranteed getting picked by saying he’d kill none of your parents. But he does wanna kill one of them and gambled on you picking the lesser evil.
Didn’t happen, and you think it’s somehow the person making the impossible choice wrongly than the ones making the choices.
Thank you for your time.
However you cut it it’s one parent or two. One parent is always better than two.
There’s no need for extra complexity, both of your parents are getting killed now.
Good comment, because this was the choice some were asked to make, to degrees ranging from similar to almost literally.
As an educated citizen I openly acknowledge voter abstention or voting Republican is irresponsible in carrying out my responsibility to protect my neighbor.
However I also recognize the incredibly painful and emotionally choking situation some were put in, with no messaging of empathy from either side. I will never blame those people more than I blame the party which failed them. Distribute it 51%/49% even, I don’t care. I’m just sick of the finger pointing and shit slinging against a tiny minority who bore no impact on the election outcome in the first place.
This dialogue, which OP is capitulating to, is perfect fascist propaganda. Find an insignificantly tiny out group, which conveniently happens to be majority Arab-American, and blame them for the violence while corporate interests and ever more racist border politics go unspoken.
Well fucking said, and pretty disgusting how upvoted the post is.
Exactly. It sounds rhetorical, silly and a stupid straw man of sorts. But that’s because people don’t understand there were people who had to actually make such decisions.
I agree, I voted Kamala Harris and I do wish we could all bite that bullet but I understand that failure to do so is on the campaign who made a gamble that they could never lose voters in a lesser evil campaign. They were wrong. Instead of criticizing that campaign many here want to fight the same people they claim to want to protect. They are turning on immigrants, Muslims, and queer folk and throwing blame at the people they themselves believe they need to win.
I would say “funny strategy” but there is no strategy here. It’s online liberals who don’t understand what happened and are upset and angry. They just came out of a campaign in which they spent so much of their time justifying the lesser of two evils that they can’t even acknowledge that it didn’t work and it’s the campaigns fault.
My hope is maybe they can stop arguing with us before the concentration camps come up.
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Real Talk, I’m getting real tired of everyone from the vaguely right of center to the farthest reaches of the left getting involved in this shit slinging blame game.
I legit don’t care anymore who you voted for (edit: so long as it wasn’t Trump I mean. But even then, time to start your redemption arc if you did). We are past the election and now all share the same immediate issues.
Folks who abstained from voting (or voted 3rd party) because you couldn’t stomach the lesser of two evils, good news, that choice is gone. You can stop parroting the idea that anyone who voted Blue did so “in support of genocide”. It should be clear by now those who voted Blue really were just doing their best in a bad situation, they are not your enemies.
Folks who voted Blue because you believe supporting the lesser evil is in service of the greater good. Good news, that burden is also gone. You can stop parroting the idea that someone who can’t stomach voting for people who would play politics with genocide is really just a tankie or a bot. Not every one is willing to play game theory with people’s lives, that doesn’t mean they are your enemies.
Anyone who truly wants to push for solidarity and human rights for all is an ally of mine. And I propose we bury the hatchet, preferably in the objectives of fascists, before its too late.
They’re easy targets. Blame the abstainers and third party voters and you don’t have to confront the legitimate failures of your party and campaign.
Nobody has denied that there are problems in the dnc, but the fault is still largely on the voters.
Nobody has denied there are problems with me, but the fault is still largely on women.
You’re in denial. Enjoy your drinks in the Cheney bar.
Why not both?
Because it’s not a useful strategy. Convince them they’re wrong and they’ll shame themselves.
I think it is important to point out the failings of others. Otherwise they may not connect the dots and learn from their mistakes.
Sometimes a mistake is innocent, say you forgot to zip up your fly. It’s important to know you forgot to do so as it could be very socially embarrassing.
Sometimes one could accidentally cut someone off in traffic because they didn’t see them. A good honk notifies them of their mistake and will hopefully drive home the fact that they probably need to pay better attention to traffic.
Pointing out that abstaining and or choosing not to vote enabled the election of the greater of two evils is equally important.
Rock on OP. Never let them forget!
Then point at the FAILED DEMOCRAT PARTY instead of voters. When biden announced he was running for re-election their own internal polling showed he’d lose. They don’t fucking care, it’s all theatre to them. Their corporate owners are happy and the donations continue to flow in from foolish rubes like you who will gladly vote blue no matter who right off a fucking cliff.
Kamala Harris spent a billion dollars and still fucking lost. But yeah go blame voters that will ensure the same thing happens in 2028 should we be so lucky to pretend to play democracy again. And it is pretend. Because if you don’t vote correctly you’re the worst person to ever exist.
I’ve been repeating this thought exercise because people seem to have a hard time delineating when blame goes the other way.
Bob is standing next to a bomb, and a fuse is sparking down. Jill, on the other side of a fence and reliant on Bob, lifts a huge very expensive sign for Bob to stamp out the fuse. Bob does not stamp out the fuse, bomb goes off.
Who is at fault; Bob for not stamping out the fuse, or Jill for not getting a high-amp bullhorn to inform Bob he should stamp the fuse?
Feel free to vary the analogy, but the question would extend to: When does it become Bob’s fault that he didn’t take action?
It remains the democrats fault for:
• gaslighting the public about inflation
• gaslighting the public about not one but two new wars including a genocide!
• refusing to run a small D democratic primary that they didn’t rig since checks notes 2004 (they tried to rig 2008 for Hillary but failed because Obama was so charismatic they couldn’t stop him)
• refusing to run a primary at all in 2024, despite biden promising when elected in 2020 to be a one term president, and his own polling showed he’d lose in 2024
• last minute Hail Mary of replacing biden with Harris despite not a single vote being cast for her
• no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!”
• didn’t bother campaigning in swing states just like Hillary in 2016
Gee I wonder why they lost the election. Couldn’t be that they continuously gaslight the public. Couldn’t be that they didn’t hold a primary (sorry but RFK Jr vanity run is not a primary). No, no. Voters just voted wrong!
But don’t worry! We have to save dEmOcRaCy! Let’s just roll over and hand the power over to trump because he won fair and square and optics and politeness are more important than saving the country! You see, the democrat party doesn’t actually give a shit, if they were serious, they would have their own January 6th. They’re not serious. They’re gonna fundraise off of it. Just like roe v Wade!
no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!
Yeah? Why do you need a platform beyond this?
It was a competent former prosecutor vs a serially lying violent felon.
AND YOU LOST!
With the exception of the Jan 6 investigation (now over with no charges for the orange buffoon) the rest of the investigations looked like political warfare and the public discounted them accordingly.
WILL YOU LIBS EVER FUCKING LEARN?!?!?!
If that delusion makes feel better about enabling a facist, then you probably aren’t ready to come to terms with your failure.
Sooner or later, one way or another, it will come for you.
Continue losing elections.
I’d rather keep up the blame game, ngl. Arguments didn’t work on the disingenuous pricks who helped get us here. I don’t care if they personally made a difference or not, I care that they were utterly unreasonable, and the change in circumstances won’t change that.
Speaking to anyone who could’ve voted for Kamala but didn’t: I don’t care about solidarity anymore; you didn’t have solidarity with us when we needed you. Y’all are fucking stupid and I don’t want to deal with that. I realize that’s not the moral choice, but RN for the first time in over a decade I don’t care about that. I’m angry. Maybe in a few more days or weeks or months that will change, maybe not. Right now I’m focusing on making sure all my remaining friends are able to get somewhere safe if the need arises and keep hope kindled in their hearts. Maybe that means other people who need my help more will suffer, die, or fall victim to their own despair, but I just don’t have the wherewithal to make that my priority.
I don’t care about solidarity anymore
Never did. Solidarity means you aren’t willing to sacrifice marginalized groups to get ahead or save your own skin. If you accept sacrificing Palestinians, you’d accept sacrificing any other group by the exact same “lesser-evilist” logic. What value does that kind of “solidarity” have?
Hey look it’s one of the problems.
Please explain how Trump will bring in peace and stop Israel from hurting anymore Palestinians, since that’s the only way your dumbass argument would even be coherent
Sounds like you have your hands full dealing with getting you and yours to safety. Good luck, I wish you all the best in that endeavor!
I can’t blame you for being angry, but just try not to let that anger turn you into the thing you are angry at. Someone who stands idly by when someone needs help you could provide.
On this platform specifically we’ve had months of smug people claiming to make the moral choice of directly or indirectly supporting the clearly worse choice. It’s far too early to just let that slide.
If we in 100 years still sometimes talk about the early days of the fediverse where a bunch of morons fell for astroturfing, that’s kind of a good outcome.
If they’re real people they should feel bad.
For the not so real people, we should figure out how a distibuted system can deal with a concerted astroturfing operation.
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Acting pretty mad for getting exactly what you wanted. But thank God virtue signaling about Gaza will survive past the actual existence of Gaza
Honestly I’m drinking liberal tears up. Where were you for the past four years “pushing biden to the left”? Out to brunch! Don’t you know the economy has never been better?!
Dems failed and people who abhor genocide unfortunately had little to do with it, though listening to Lemmy libs you’d think they personally destroyed her campaign
I have been seeing this online, leftist, superposition where people not voting Democrat, to protest the genocide, are not a significant enough portion of the vote, to have tanked the election for the DNC, and that enough of the 15 million who sat out clearly did so due to the genocide, to make them lose. I have seen it argued both ways from a number of the same people, in different threads, when the messaging behind either, works in their favor. No these people are not russian bots, they have been around lemmy, doing normal poster stuff, for a while now. They just want to not take any blame, and also claim their issue was far more universally important than it was.
“My vote for Jill Stein/My non vote for protest/etc. isn’t what killed her chance, it was people being mad about other things the DNC didn’t do well!” Then, on another post, seeing the same user name, “15 million people wouldn’t have sat out had they stopped supporting Israel!”
All the third party votes combined and given only to swing states would still end with trump winning.
Wake the fuck up. The democrats lost because they fucking suck. stop blaming voters for your elitist out to brunch pathetic excuse of a political party that’s been gaslighting the public for four years about inflation telling us not to believe our own lying eyes and how great!!! the economy is doing I mean look at these numbers!!! But these people are the type who going to work means going golfing to rub shoulders with the rest of the elite. They’re fucking clueless.
And they’re bleeding us dry with taxes while sending ALL of that money over to Israel and Ukraine. Meanwhile we have homeless starving people over here and they throw their hands up and say there’s no money. Fuck them and all their stupid ass brunch going laptop class never worked a real day in their life supporters too hung up on getting their pronouns right to actually come up with a platform that appeals to voters. “We’re not trump” is not a fucking platform. I hate trump but there is absolutely no question that these past four years I’ve been struggling far more economically under Biden than trump. Democrat party operatives too busy sniffing their own farts to read the fucking room.
Well, blaming the people for their votes wasn’t the point I was making… but ok. I was pointing out this weird behavior I have been seeing. I would say “but go off”, but you already have.
you had my upvote until your bit about pronouns. :(
learn and do better.
Im visibly queer myself and gender nonconforming. Catering to 1% of the population and turning it into a wedge issue (trans people in prison getting taxpayer funded gender reassignment surgery - a ridiculous concept that affects maybe 100 people in a country of 330 million, thanks ACLU for the gotcha) is a great way to get trump re-elected because 1% of the blue no matter who voters get their panties in a twist if people won’t play their pronoun police games. Cis people wearing pronoun placards and putting their pronouns in their email signature is about as helpful to the queer cause as painting a fucking rainbow in the street. Do nothing feel good -ism.
Pronouns and males in women’s sports are dumb wedge issues to lose an election over, just to cater to the precious feelings of 1% of the population. And now ALL of us queers are under threat.
You know what helps queer people? Focusing on the insane cost of living crisis. and that’s a winning platform that doesn’t just focus on an insignificant cultural decadence issue but rather affects most of the population. But instead biden/Harris gaslit the public about inflation and now they’re blaming everybody but themselves for the loss.
“Cis people wearing pronoun placards and putting their pronouns in their email signature” is helpful to me due to the number of (cisgender) people named Alex, Jordan, Morgan, Casey, Taylor, Avery Parker or Cameron lol.
Overall I agree with the gist of what you are saying, it’s just really fucked that you are lumping an incredible spread of wedge issues under “too hung up on getting their pronouns right.” You literally could have just said “wedge issues and messaging failures surrounding trans folk” instead of “pronouns” and I would never have commented.
Being kind!
I use pronouns as an example because it’s 1% of the population and well meaning cis liberals love to virtue signal over it and beat everyone else over the head with it in a smug sense of superiority. In reality, it doesn’t matter at all and shouldn’t even be part of a political platform. It’s bad strategy and stupid, catering to the special feelings of a tiny group of people over the realistic needs of the larger group.
When it comes to people with gender neutral names, if you’re not sure just ask. Or guess, and if you guessed wrong, apologize. Only the power tripping type are gonna get hung up on it. People misgender me all the time. I don’t care. It’s not out of malice.
Really disturbing how you are framing the acceptance of trans people, a matter of life and death, as “special feelings”?
The Republican platform is to eradicate transgender people. I absolutely will not tolerate criticism of countermessaging that does the bare minimum of calling them the gender they are. Do better.
It’s both. Many, many issues have 15 people who can explain what they don’t like and try to do something about it, and then 15 million people who don’t like the same thing but can’t explain it, won’t try, only vote when they feel like it, and will never see any scolding you try to do.
people not voting Democrat, to protest the genocide, are not a significant enough portion of the vote, to have tanked the election for the DNC
a) yeah people are saying this.
enough of the 15 million who sat out clearly did so due to the genocide
b) no one is saying this except people who are so misinformed that they would deny a) anyway. you’re attributing the words of two separate groups of people to everyone in that group.
edit: sorry for the false assertion, corrected
@kameecoding English6•
My favorite lemmy bubble is the smug woke ( idiot leftists, who think they are smart but aren’t) who think Kamala lost because she didn’t take a stance on Gaza and people abstained in protest and not because of sexism and racism.
and to this is the direct reply
@SeattleRain English2•
That is why she lost to though. 15 million blank ballots don’t lie.
There are more people in that thread saying this in various different ways, and this is just the most recent one in my post history.
Dumb smug liberals too addicted to identity politics as an excuse for everything under the sun completely ignoring TWO WARS and RECORD INFLATION that the biden administration gaslights the public over.
I… understand that. The first commenter in the post I copypasta’d wasn’t someone I was agreeing with, nor was it me. I was just showing my most recent example of the weird behavior I have been seeing, that is all.
Sorry. Your comments formatting is confusing, my bad.
yikes ok thanks for the correction. didn’t know people were that poorly informed.
i’ll see what i can do to correct my comment in an edit, it’s obvious the user you quoted is way off base in saying the B portion of my comment. not sure if they would also say the A portion though.
edit: for anyone curious, the “15 million” that user refers to is a purported number of democrats that didn’t show up to vote. and so has nothing to do with “blank ballots.” plus that number isn’t even real apparently and it’s less, see that fact check link for more.
It’s cool, I see this a lot lately. Yeah, I am not siding with commenter one, this example was just the first in my history. No offense to you, I don’t really think this conversation is worth more work than that. I have a number of examples hidden in there though, also consider I didn’t bother commenting most of the times I saw this type of thing.
Personally, while I listen to people, and can’t but accept bigotry as part of the issue, it isn’t THE issue. However, people like Seattle here, seem to be in a bubble. My personal friends care about this, I do, it is common in most of the online spaces I am in, but when I get out into an unfiltered space, it becomes clear gaza isn’t a consideration, or is so far down the list, it might as well not be.
Personally, while I listen to people, and can’t but accept bigotry as part of the issue, it isn’t THE issue.
Agree. I heard Hasanabi frame it as, the US is certainly sexist and racist, yes, but those hurdles could have been overcome (as with Obama) by employing messaging that is appealing to the majority public who feel alienated from their labor and neighbors. And that did not happen, not nearly enough or comparably to Obama, and so racism and sexism won out.
Yes, much of the labor here voted trump due to blindly reaching out to someone they thought was a political outsider. Now they are furious that their compensation is going to be cut, and their union (this is largely manufacturing) can’t do anything, because their company can materially prove major losses in profit margins. Even the top brass, in a number of these companies, are having their contracts re-negotiated to reduce their compensation. Locally, they voted more progressive than in decades, because they saw those people as outsiders too. This goes right along with what AOC, and Bernie, are saying about people who voted for both them and trump.
Much of the people, who voted biden, and then sat this out, are older white men. People seem to think just mentioning this means you are saying it was all hate due to woman of color. However, I also see the concerns of this demographic are way different than those who would be seriously concerned about palestine. Here people are saying things akin to “the destruction of our palestine (the train wreck that poisoned palestine OH) was just a news cycle, the one on the other side of the world has been on the news for months.”
They need someone to blame. Taking on blame themselves for ignoring voters? That’s preposterous! Those votes are clearly owed in the democracy that they’re the saviors of.
There sure are a lot of people trying to blame the left because their strategy of appealing to the middle failed.
Well yeah, otherwise they’d have to consider actually changing their shit strategy
Even after all this the DNC are already bowing down to the fascist position because they lost because they were “too woke”.
This is when the democrats were already running a far right platform of “we want to fund the police, not defund them”, following Trump’s border policy, “most lethal army”, “Israel must expand its borders”, “I’ll have a Republican in my cabinet”. And they weren’t “woke” at all. Kamala threw trans people in the trash saying “we’ll follow the law” when it comes to trans issues. It was the Republicans who were running hundreds of millions of dollars worth of attack ads on trans people and democrats weren’t saying shit.
The DNC have once again failed to learn and are looking for a “centrist” chair, doing exactly the same thing of shutting down leftist voices and trying to appeal to and compromise with the fascists instead of listening to people like Bernie and AOC.
You’d think after they utterly failed and managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and get an out and proud fascist elected they would finally learn that they need to address the real issues that affect all working class people.
The ratchet effect is real.
The Republican critique of the democrats is kind of right in a way in that they are just the same rich people not doing anything about the cost of living and only using identity politics to “virtue signal”. They’re right wingers with rainbow flags. That doesn’t do much for oppressed minorities except make us the target of attacks. What would benefit queer and other oppressed minorities more is build a society in which we can afford homes to live in, food to eat, access to healthcare. But they want to make it all about pronouns because that is easy for them to look like they’re someone “on the left”, when economically they’re not on the left at all.
There’s really no hope with the DNC. We just need to organize in our own communities because the democrats certainly aren’t coming to save anyone.
Idk. I’m sure the cheneys endorsement brought out dozens of voters.
I wasn’t super fond of the democrat’s platform either man, but I definitely wanted Not Fascism and Some Semblance of Human Rights to win.
Now we have nothing, and I have to make plans to figure out how to get my girlfriend out of the country if she ever needs reproductive care. Great job!
Well hopefully blaming progressives instead of the people who actually voted for trump makes you feel better at least?
News flash, neoliberals are already fascist, they are just better at hiding it. They even endorsed Dick fucking Cheney.
A party that insists we have to support genocide is already fascist and has no regard for human rights except to use as bargaining chips to get votes. Sorry.
There is more than one topic to consider. If they both are truly the same in your mind on that topic maybe look at other factors that heavily impact people? Voting for a 3rd party who has no chance of winning literally does nothing.
Yeah so Republicans. Great job.
Egocentrism is a defining American quality.
Nothing could be more egocentric than believing every opinion different from your own can just be reduced to egocentrism. Maybe it’s time for a healthy dose of self awareness…
“All Opinions Are Equal”
Consider the proposition that all people’s opinions hold equal value. No one’s opinion is better or more valid than anyone else’s.
Hope this helps.
?
Your point?
There sure are a lot of people that didn’t do jack shit and think they have a place to blame anyone.
Canadian, voted for left wing party that had the best chance of winning despite the leader being a gilded spoon brat who couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag.
I did my fucking part. All you wannabe progressives in the US had to do was vote to keep the Nazi out of office and you couldn’t even do that.
American. Voted for Harris. I think you responded to the wrong person.
That was in general to the people who “held back their vote” to “teach the Democrats a lesson”. The kind of people who don’t realize that the luxuries the west has were hard fought and think they will always be there.
Then you weren’t continuing the conversation and was grandstanding to the choir to feel better.
They were continuing the conversational thread about the people who didn’t do shit
Ahh. Gotcha. Well said, friend from the not too distant north!
And what has the liberal party done with your vote? Next year is going to be a fucking disaster. The strategy of voting for the least bad option doesn’t work when the least bad option keeps getting worse. You can bleat at people to vote for the one party over and over again, but eventually enough people just give up or get desperate for any chance at change and think that voting for the other party will at least shake things up.
I voted for the NDP.
Federally the Liberals are the centrists led by the gilded spoon spoiled brat who couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag. But he is fantastic at speeches.
The same NDP that doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell at getting power nationally? Again, next year is going to be a disaster.
Couldn’t have said it better. This post is pure cringe but the op is a perfect example of why Democrats lost.
Naaah. What’s cringe are the smug pseudo-intellectual “trolley problem” gEnOciDe accusers that didn’t do shit but sit on their thumbs while the rest of us tried to save democracy.
Now they all get to blame the people that acted while smugly admitting that they chose not to?
An estimated 90 million people chose not to vote. Of those 90 million were third party supporting clowns that chose not to vote because they knew their candidate didn’t stand a chance. Also among those 90 million were protest-voting clowns that chose not to vote because their last two remaining brain cells were too busy fighting over third place.
There is ZERO logic or intelligence in accusing the people that actually tried and did something to avoid a shitty outcome while arrogantly having not done jack shit about it.
I thought the people analyzing the election as a single-iteration trolley problem were primarily Harris supporters? [Pull lever] = Harris, [don’t pull] = Trump, right?
You aren’t saving democracy dude lmao
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So you tried saving democracy by… doing nothing and in the end, everyone lost. And I don’t recall ever supporting genocide, mentioning anything even remotely supportive of genocide, or even so much as hinting at that possibility of being an okay thing to do for any reason.
If the left would rather have Trump than a centrist Harris government, the left deserves blame
It’s not the left but everyone else that didn’t vote for her either.
The left is just an easy target cause we pointed out her flaws and people think by doing that we somehow made her flaws real.
Clearly a huge amount of people had issues with her or she would have won more votes. It’s like Trump thinking if we stopped testing for COVID it would stop happening.
If the leftists shut up Harris just would have lost in silence.
I say she relied on the left coming out for abortion rights and democracy. They couldn’t even come out for that.
Abortion rights initiatives won in 7 out of 10 states where they were on the ballot.
And got 57% in FL, but needed 60% to pass
Fuck national rights amiright.
Their main failure was choosing a half black, half Indian women as their candidate. That in it self is 3 failures. You can have ONE of those things. 2 is highly improbable, 3 is impossible.
This has nothing to do with how I think Harris will perform as president but more to do with how racist and misogynistic this country is.
I truly thing Walz would have done better at the polls.
I think you might just be racist and sexist if that’s your immediate thoughts.
Don’t push yours on everyone else.
Her rallies were massive and she was polling 10%+ ahead of Trump when she was seen as progressive.
When she went full blue dog and parroted the same strategy Clinton failed with in 2016, the advantage evaporated and she started polling at or under Trump.
Falsely attributing the failure to misogyny solves nothing.
Rallies don’t turn into voters apparently.
More importantly, they stopped talking about rally size when she went blue dog.
The pictures I’ve seen of both sides’ October rallies looked about the same, very different from her earlier massive rallies.
But if it isn’t the progressives then it must be men’s fault, black people’s fault, Muslim people’s fault while being the fault of racists, misogynists and Islamiaphobes.
Or you could blame the party instead of the voters.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. John Fetterman would have won easily. Americans pick based on appearance.
Ah yes, another centrist. That will surely work this time.
Centrist is a label based on a candidate’s position on issues.
I claim that doesn’t matter. Image matters.
Fetterman is a large white male that makes Trump look weak. That’s all that matters.
Trump can’t even run again
??? This is about the election that just happened.
I’d say they vote based on matching identities “(s)he’s like me”.
They voted for a worse genocide.
In 2 different places no less and possibly more.
They just don’t know it yet.
Last I checked Trump lost 3 million voters since last election, and Harris lost 10 million.
The couch won. It’s not like people were suddenly won over by a person they’ve likely seen through 3 election cycles.
Right, which is why people are rightfully furious at those they didn’t even bother to vote for the objectively better option
She didn’t appear better. So telling people that did nothing.
I don’t know why that’s a hard concept, for so many. Lemmy liberals love to think they can tell people exactly what to do because they are obviously right.
It’s smug and not effective and yet tactics don’t change just berate harder.
Right, which is why people are angry at the people who couldn’t even go vote for Harris
I’ve a feeling some of them know it. They’re just remaining here to maintain enough credibility to be believable during the next propaganda wave that’ll hit us once trump allows his boss to crater Kiev.
You forgot at home, where the marginalized groups are also gonna feel the brunt of turnips policies.
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The Democratic party or a campaign can’t fail, they can only be failed, right OP?
Two things can be bad.
The Democrats clearly didn’t figure out how to win in the reality we have, with the voters we have. They should definitely figure out what they could have done better.
The people who didn’t vote for Harris deserve all shame they can get. It was not a hard choice. It shouldn’t have been even close.
Shouldn’t have been based on what reality?
Sure as long as you ignore all the trump supporters and the people saying they had issues with the centrist and if you think everyone will just do what a portion of the population tells them to do because they act smug about it?
Like, that idea that it just “should” have worked is the problem.
Thinking you should ace a test cause you are smart and can figure it out and aiming to ace a test by studying and putting in effort are very different things but liberals in here wouldn’t know it.
They should be so happy to have achieved what they voted for. This is their utopia too and they deserve to enjoy the fruits of their single-principle voting as well.
When they see people sick and poor with no support or hope, young girls risking life and limb to bear the children of their rapists, rotting infrastructure and a rampant xenophobic kleptocracy, they need to stand and say “I helped make this happen!”
Be proud of the utopia you helped build by voting for the Russian agent; either one.
You are talking about Gaza right
Amazingly, nobody’s happy that the dems decided to sacrifice the whole country rather than budge on exterminating the Palestinians.
I mean, Kamala really wanted Republicans in the white house with her. I bet she’s elated to see how many will be in there now.
Had nothing to do with it… or at least insignificantly. The Dems on a platform of “were not him” and the economy is booming… while people where hurting and got shafted by the wave of devaluation… people are angry… and the let’s keep going on the same path and change nothing and so nothing party did not get people out to vote.
It’s possible the idea that they ran a “not Trump” campaign is true enough, and that was part of the failure vs. being more to the left or vocal or any number of other things suggested. But the very fact that “not Trump” made people not show up and throw the election to him, or worse vote FOR him, says a lot about the state of the country.
I get it, people are hurting economically and somehow get blinded into promises that magic will happen. But Trump? Anyone voting this time around was around when he was in office the first time…are we that short memory? Yeah, we apparently are…repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results. And that can be applied to both sides, but one of them was the same guy.
Why? America is the country of fuck around and find out. There where no consequences, no prison time, no perp walk… there was no find out… so by extension… there must not have been a fuck around. It must have been a lot of Dems acreetching about stuff but no actual smoke or fire.
Well they couldn’t punish trump or else they might ruin the fantasy that the wealthy and in charge are untouchable and they might be next for all the shit they pull.
I think you, someone who probably keeps up on the news and outrage and etc. are overestimating how much others do.
People are absorbed in their day to day life. Trump’s gonna appoint RFK to a health leadership position? That’s a far away concept with only vague implications for people who are having to take payday loans for the first time to make rent. Harris didn’t truly run a campaign of hope and change like '08 Obama.
Exactly… were not going back… to when we could afford rent?
The 2024 presidential election was like a really hairy credit card bill. Republicans ran on a platform of ignoring the debt all together and not making any payment at all, letting it get further out of hand. Democrats got blasted for proposing to make a minimum payment that did nothing toward interest. Neither choice was going to get us out of debt. But one of the choices is definitely going to bankrupt us. We could have made a payment. Now we’re in way over our head instead.
Well it appears they’ll never figure that out and intend to lose more so in 4 more years.
Trump will have had 4 years to Putin up America by then. I’m not sure elections will matter any more by then. This is all just academic.
“Democrats lost because of this out that… They’ll never learn…” “Trump won because of that…”
Who fucking cares anymore? The fascists are in charge now.
So if the fascist are in charge does that mean you just give up? No resistance? No civil war? Just hand America over to the fascists?
Civil war? What kind of shit talk is this?
Sound like you’re rooting for that clusterfuck of an option.
Better to fight the civil war than to just roll over for them
… No resistance? No civil war?
Who’s going to be on my side? Trump won the popular vote. Think we can rely on ppl that can’t even bother to vote to come actually put their lives in peril for a cause? Who would I fight with and what in the fuck are we even fighting for?
I’ll be in the fight anyway, as soon as there actually is one, but Americans will need to wake the fuck up before that’s possible.
Think we can rely on ppl that can’t even bother to vote to come actually put their lives in peril for a cause?
All that needed be said on the subject.
Isn’t that what you did when you chose not to vote?
