All of these discussions need to have the context of TIMING added.
why would I want them to win if I do not agree with their politics?
For me, it depends on when you ask. Right now, yeah the Democratic Party seems pretty fucked, and poised to continue our corporate oligarchy IF they ever get a chance to have power again. The party (or some other party to replace them) needs to rebuild around young progressive voices focused on actually helping society.
In the voting booth back on Election Day though? Well let me think about the actual choice in that moment. And keep in mind I live in a swing state, so I vote as if I may actually affect the outcome.
Option A: vote Democrat. We get things like
government and police serving the rich
inequality status quo
Israel genocide support status quo
Garbage healthcare status quo
Wow, I certainly don’t support THAT mess! Surely I’ll just go for the next one…
Option B: vote Republican. Then instead it’s
oligarchy in turbo mode, with billionaires taking the place of governors at the inauguration and other billionaires directly trying to cut off funding to the needy
inequality getting worse, due in part to the above
Israel genocide in turbo mode, in fact let’s just take over Gaza ourselves
Healthcare status quo would be a gift in comparison to whatever RFK and the other fuckups have brewing
Unqualified loyalists put into positions of power (I can’t decide if my favorite is the talking head as Secretary of defense, the Russian asset nominated for national intelligence, or the Trump donor and fossil fuel CEO for energy, etc)
certain types of people are supposed to just not exist any more
other types of people can exist but just not have as many rights or be in control
destroying the careers and lives of thousands of career civil servants because they work remotely, or because they investigated a criminal once that Trump likes
ripping tons of other people out of their communities and making them disappear to some unfamiliar faraway place because they have the wrong skin tone or could not produce their papers
fascism?
Demonstrated criminal and traitor in the White House?
Let’s pardon that criminal traitor’s accomplices while we’re at it.
Seriously this list could go on and on, and yes some of these specifics weren’t known in November but it was all VERY predictable
Option C: vote for any other candidate or just stay home.
your true best choice, and/or your disgust for the whole thing, are noted and recorded (and since third party candidates won’t get elected, people won’t attack you for legitimizing 100% of the wacky shit in their platform with a single vote)
A or B are guaranteed to win, regardless of literally anything you do.
If you have any level of preference between A and B, you have mathematically helped the choice you like less by not voting for the only viable alternative.
It is shit that this “lesser evil” choice is there, and our voting and 2-party system are flawed in so many ways that need to be fixed. But once you’re to the general election, this is the practical reality of your choices. Again, I’m in a swing state so I vote as if I might actually have an effect on the outcome.
After what I’ve seen over the last decade, I want a very very different political party (or several of them, if I can dream) to oppose the conservative hate, greed, and negativity in our society and institutions.
But damn it, I care about other people and I try to help them in ways that I can actually affect the world, not the ways that make me feel the most morally superior or like I have the cleanest hands. Voting “against” something instead of “for” something isn’t a great place to be. This is obvious. But when the thing you’re voting against is fucking evil and wants to destroy people you talk with every day, once it gets to the point of a general election I am voting against that piece of shit and all his enablers in the most impactful way I can. Every time.
I see your point, but I should say that I agree that it would be better for you to have Harriss than Trump. However, that does not mean you should have voted for her. Dependending on the state you are in, your vote either has no effect on the election at all, or it has only a very very very small chance to decide it. And for as long as it does not decide it it is irrelevant. So even if the benefit of not voting is very small, like keeping your moral integrity or embodying democratic principles or not wasting your time, it is still worth it.
No disagreement here! I’m obviously a fan of practical considerations in casting a vote.
Like I said, swing state here. I wonder what I would have done if I were in one of the darkest blue or red states. Voting for the actual best third party platform would probably be my default for President, but Trump is so bad that I’m not sure how I would approach it.
But everything down the ballot matters too. If one of Trump’s enablers had even a slim chance of victory I would want to vote for their highest polling opponent (within reason, all else being equal, etc).
It’s multiple positions at multiple levels of government. Since you asked, I bet I can quickly find what was in my ballot in November…
President (Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green Party)
Senator (Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, Green Party, Constitution Party)
Attorney General (6 parties represented)
Auditor General (5 parties)
State Treasurer (5 parties)
Representative in Congress (only R and D)
State Senator (only R and D)
State Representative (only R and D)
And all of these would have a line for write-in on the ballot, of course.
So it goes from the president all the way down to the state representative, which is somebody who represents your local district at the state level legislature. So they could very well be a neighbor or a name in the local community.
All of these discussions need to have the context of TIMING added.
For me, it depends on when you ask. Right now, yeah the Democratic Party seems pretty fucked, and poised to continue our corporate oligarchy IF they ever get a chance to have power again. The party (or some other party to replace them) needs to rebuild around young progressive voices focused on actually helping society.
In the voting booth back on Election Day though? Well let me think about the actual choice in that moment. And keep in mind I live in a swing state, so I vote as if I may actually affect the outcome.
Option A: vote Democrat. We get things like
Wow, I certainly don’t support THAT mess! Surely I’ll just go for the next one…
Option B: vote Republican. Then instead it’s
Option C: vote for any other candidate or just stay home.
It is shit that this “lesser evil” choice is there, and our voting and 2-party system are flawed in so many ways that need to be fixed. But once you’re to the general election, this is the practical reality of your choices. Again, I’m in a swing state so I vote as if I might actually have an effect on the outcome.
After what I’ve seen over the last decade, I want a very very different political party (or several of them, if I can dream) to oppose the conservative hate, greed, and negativity in our society and institutions.
But damn it, I care about other people and I try to help them in ways that I can actually affect the world, not the ways that make me feel the most morally superior or like I have the cleanest hands. Voting “against” something instead of “for” something isn’t a great place to be. This is obvious. But when the thing you’re voting against is fucking evil and wants to destroy people you talk with every day, once it gets to the point of a general election I am voting against that piece of shit and all his enablers in the most impactful way I can. Every time.
I see your point, but I should say that I agree that it would be better for you to have Harriss than Trump. However, that does not mean you should have voted for her. Dependending on the state you are in, your vote either has no effect on the election at all, or it has only a very very very small chance to decide it. And for as long as it does not decide it it is irrelevant. So even if the benefit of not voting is very small, like keeping your moral integrity or embodying democratic principles or not wasting your time, it is still worth it.
No disagreement here! I’m obviously a fan of practical considerations in casting a vote.
Like I said, swing state here. I wonder what I would have done if I were in one of the darkest blue or red states. Voting for the actual best third party platform would probably be my default for President, but Trump is so bad that I’m not sure how I would approach it.
But everything down the ballot matters too. If one of Trump’s enablers had even a slim chance of victory I would want to vote for their highest polling opponent (within reason, all else being equal, etc).
And what is down the ballot? Local governors? You don’t just vote for the president in the presidential election?
It’s multiple positions at multiple levels of government. Since you asked, I bet I can quickly find what was in my ballot in November…
President (Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green Party)
Senator (Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, Green Party, Constitution Party)
Attorney General (6 parties represented)
Auditor General (5 parties)
State Treasurer (5 parties)
Representative in Congress (only R and D)
State Senator (only R and D)
State Representative (only R and D)
And all of these would have a line for write-in on the ballot, of course.
So it goes from the president all the way down to the state representative, which is somebody who represents your local district at the state level legislature. So they could very well be a neighbor or a name in the local community.
Wow. Unusal, but I suppose you can do everything at the same time.