Everyone blamed Harris for not charting her own course, for declaring she wouldn’t have changed a thing that happened under Biden. The DNC assumed people would support a black female version of Biden that mirrored everything we hated about him, all while shifting further to the right. This is what holding politicians accountable looks like.
They lost didn’t they? That sounds like a win. They can either start complying with the demands of those holding them accountable or continue to lose. It’s liberals that allowed them to do whatever they wanted to for 50 years with no repercussions is why things have gotten so bad
If your a god-fearing white American man, maybe… Nah not even then if you aren’t wealthy. But everyone else in the states is unambiguously more boned than we’ve been since pre-civil rights era, let alone the Biden administration. And outside of the United States, what country other than Russia has found themselves in a better place since the inauguration?
Look you have a point, the Dems are beyond worthless, and now that we’re post-election this is the perfect time either get them into shape or replace them “tea party” style. Those fossils need to be gone. But nobody fucking “won” last election, save a privaleged few including Putin and Netanyahu. And Trump & friends obviously, but that goes without sayin.
No, because we don’t regret our decisions. But we are making our decisions, not decisions that have made been made for you the way the DNC manufacturers your choices
Yes, I’m aware that you think this way. Ukrainians, Gazans, people in the West Bank, “illegal” immigrants, legal immigrants, scientists, working people, journalists, and lots and lots of other people have already been sacrificed so that you could get your “win.” Good stuff! Have you talked to them about how proud you are of the desired outcome? We’re only a couple months in. It’s going to get much, much worse for them.
If you want to make the US system better, including the Democrats, that sounds absolutely fucking fantastic. Simply not voting for them until they get better on their own, usually pushes them to the right, not the left. That’s pretty much what happened from 1969 to 1993, and what turned the party of JFK, LBJ, and Jimmy Carter into the party of Bill Clinton, and ushered in our current shattered state. If you want to keep going that direction, you are not on the left.
Keep the marginalized out of your mouth, liberals only care about them to whiteknight and use them as political pawns so they can stay in power. If Democrats actually cared like they claim they wouldn’t be marginalized.
Failure of voters holding them accountable is what turned the party from Jimmy Carter to Bill Clinton to barely left of Trump. Voters allowed them to do whatever they wanted with no consequence so, like a dog that gets a treat after pissing on the floor, they kept pissing on the floor. Now you are buried in 50 years of piss and shit.
Anyone voting for, or advocating a vote for Democrats is not the left. You are enablers of right wing fascism.
Bro, you patted yourself on the back for fucking over Ukraine, Palestine, and America. I didn’t put those marginalized people in the conversation, you did.
Failure of voters holding them accountable is what turned the party from Jimmy Carter to Bill Clinton to barely left of Trump.
Lol
How did the voters fail to hold them accountable? There was one Democrat that won one single term over those 24 years, until the Democrats finally tacked all the way to the right with Clinton. What are you saying the voters should have done differently? They pursued exactly your strategy.
Go back and look at your first two comments when you replied to me here.
You started an argument, and now you’re unhappy that you are in an argument. Okay. If you don’t have an answer for my question, just say something else. It doesn’t have to be “Hey, that’s a really good point, maybe refusing to vote for Democrats until they get better on their own is abundantly proven to be a dogshit strategy, and I should advocate for something else.” Although, you could say that, and we could have a conversation about what a winning strategy could be. Something productive, you know? To me, that would be good.
I’d imagine fair number of Democratic voters are on the side of “progress for the average american”. Something that’s been sorely lacking for a very long time from both parties. In fact, I would imagine a fair number of voters have to vote “against” a candidate rather than “for” one.
But yea, anyone who abstained from voting is not “on my side” because it was extremely clear which “side” would do active harm to america and would in fact revert progress for the average american.
Trying to take the intellectual high ground of “holding politicians accountable” is silly, especially for the office of president where you only get 1 choice per party. If they really wanted to hold them accountable you should start voting in non-incumbents in offices that allow for multiple choices per party. Or at the very least offices where the power is spread among a group of people instead of in a single role.
Abstained from voting? It’s totally fair to be upset with people who abstained from voting, they aren’t taking part in the democracy. However, I feel like there is this belief to assume that just because someone didn’t vote for the two major parties, they didn’t vote at all. This belief only perpetuates the “throwing away your vote” idea that has made the Democratic and Republican parties comfortable enough to be for their own interests rather than the interests of all. I can’t be upset with anyone who voted for Democrat, Republican, or third party because they took part in the democracy.
I read “holding politicians accountable” to be: “I didn’t vote for the Democrats because they weren’t left/whatever enough for me.” Which means either they voted green/independant (possible) or they voted republican (extremely unlikely) or they didn’t vote at all (most likely IMO). So again, I don’t view those people as being “on the same side as me”.
Voting anything other than D/R for president is in fact throwing away your vote. Until we get something other than first past the post it’s a literal throwaway vote. I don’t like it anymore than (i assume) you do, but that is how it is, and those are the rules we have to play with.
I was with you on this up until this election. But there was only 1 major party for democracy in 2024, and it was extremely clear for anyone who held America in any respect/esteem/standing. Trump holds just about everything that makes America, America, in contempt. He’s a known misogynist, xenophobe, transphobe, racist, thin-skinned, power-hungry, lying, treasonous, child who wouldn’t be able to hold down a job as a walmart greeter if he actually had to work a day in his life.
Anyone who describes what just happened as “holding politicians accountable” is not on the same side as me.
I’m actually not angry or anything. I just think empireInDecay is being dishonest, and blindly repeating various talking points and a particular seductive framing for what happened in the election, in a way that makes no attempt to be grounded in any reality. They don’t seem to be here for any kind of conversation. They seem to want to broadcast a particular point of view and ignore anyone who says anything different, and hope that the judgement they’re broadcasting about what just happened in the election, why it happened, and what to do about it in the future (“hold politicians accountable” some more, presumably) will take hold through sheer repetition, instead of through any kind of reasoned justification of it being accurate.
Yeah, I get strong tankie vibes off them. There is a big difference between saying, “I’m not voting for Dems because they won’t stop Republicans”, and saying, “I’m glad Dems lost (to Republicans)”. They seemingly have more animosity towards neolib Dems than actual fascists.
You think Biden was going to what? Fire her 2 months before the election? She had literally nothing forcing her to stay Biden’s course. She’s also not beholden to her VP role while campaigning.
Everyone blamed Harris for not charting her own course, for declaring she wouldn’t have changed a thing that happened under Biden. The DNC assumed people would support a black female version of Biden that mirrored everything we hated about him, all while shifting further to the right. This is what holding politicians accountable looks like.
Yeah, you really showed 'em. Good job holding them accountable. It worked great.
They lost didn’t they? That sounds like a win. They can either start complying with the demands of those holding them accountable or continue to lose. It’s liberals that allowed them to do whatever they wanted to for 50 years with no repercussions is why things have gotten so bad
If your a god-fearing white American man, maybe… Nah not even then if you aren’t wealthy. But everyone else in the states is unambiguously more boned than we’ve been since pre-civil rights era, let alone the Biden administration. And outside of the United States, what country other than Russia has found themselves in a better place since the inauguration?
Look you have a point, the Dems are beyond worthless, and now that we’re post-election this is the perfect time either get them into shape or replace them “tea party” style. Those fossils need to be gone. But nobody fucking “won” last election, save a privaleged few including Putin and Netanyahu. And Trump & friends obviously, but that goes without sayin.
Let the party burn to the ground
Now sure, it’s not like we’re having a free election again after the last one
Lemmy edgelords: Bro we don’t need voting, we just need people in the streets
(Elections end)
Lemmy edgelords: Bro this is WAY WAY FUCKING HARDER than voting was
No, because we don’t regret our decisions. But we are making our decisions, not decisions that have made been made for you the way the DNC manufacturers your choices
Yes, I’m aware that you think this way. Ukrainians, Gazans, people in the West Bank, “illegal” immigrants, legal immigrants, scientists, working people, journalists, and lots and lots of other people have already been sacrificed so that you could get your “win.” Good stuff! Have you talked to them about how proud you are of the desired outcome? We’re only a couple months in. It’s going to get much, much worse for them.
If you want to make the US system better, including the Democrats, that sounds absolutely fucking fantastic. Simply not voting for them until they get better on their own, usually pushes them to the right, not the left. That’s pretty much what happened from 1969 to 1993, and what turned the party of JFK, LBJ, and Jimmy Carter into the party of Bill Clinton, and ushered in our current shattered state. If you want to keep going that direction, you are not on the left.
Keep the marginalized out of your mouth, liberals only care about them to whiteknight and use them as political pawns so they can stay in power. If Democrats actually cared like they claim they wouldn’t be marginalized.
Failure of voters holding them accountable is what turned the party from Jimmy Carter to Bill Clinton to barely left of Trump. Voters allowed them to do whatever they wanted with no consequence so, like a dog that gets a treat after pissing on the floor, they kept pissing on the floor. Now you are buried in 50 years of piss and shit.
Anyone voting for, or advocating a vote for Democrats is not the left. You are enablers of right wing fascism.
Bro, you patted yourself on the back for fucking over Ukraine, Palestine, and America. I didn’t put those marginalized people in the conversation, you did.
Lol
How did the voters fail to hold them accountable? There was one Democrat that won one single term over those 24 years, until the Democrats finally tacked all the way to the right with Clinton. What are you saying the voters should have done differently? They pursued exactly your strategy.
Arguing with liberals is exhausting, no different than their Republican counterparts.
Go back and look at your first two comments when you replied to me here.
You started an argument, and now you’re unhappy that you are in an argument. Okay. If you don’t have an answer for my question, just say something else. It doesn’t have to be “Hey, that’s a really good point, maybe refusing to vote for Democrats until they get better on their own is abundantly proven to be a dogshit strategy, and I should advocate for something else.” Although, you could say that, and we could have a conversation about what a winning strategy could be. Something productive, you know? To me, that would be good.
I didn’t start an argument, I pointed out fact. But liberal hubris like yours is what has contributed to our current situation.
I don’t get why you’re angry with the people on the same side of the fight as you.
I’d imagine fair number of Democratic voters are on the side of “progress for the average american”. Something that’s been sorely lacking for a very long time from both parties. In fact, I would imagine a fair number of voters have to vote “against” a candidate rather than “for” one.
But yea, anyone who abstained from voting is not “on my side” because it was extremely clear which “side” would do active harm to america and would in fact revert progress for the average american.
Trying to take the intellectual high ground of “holding politicians accountable” is silly, especially for the office of president where you only get 1 choice per party. If they really wanted to hold them accountable you should start voting in non-incumbents in offices that allow for multiple choices per party. Or at the very least offices where the power is spread among a group of people instead of in a single role.
Abstained from voting? It’s totally fair to be upset with people who abstained from voting, they aren’t taking part in the democracy. However, I feel like there is this belief to assume that just because someone didn’t vote for the two major parties, they didn’t vote at all. This belief only perpetuates the “throwing away your vote” idea that has made the Democratic and Republican parties comfortable enough to be for their own interests rather than the interests of all. I can’t be upset with anyone who voted for Democrat, Republican, or third party because they took part in the democracy.
I guess a few things:
I read “holding politicians accountable” to be: “I didn’t vote for the Democrats because they weren’t left/whatever enough for me.” Which means either they voted green/independant (possible) or they voted republican (extremely unlikely) or they didn’t vote at all (most likely IMO). So again, I don’t view those people as being “on the same side as me”.
Voting anything other than D/R for president is in fact throwing away your vote. Until we get something other than first past the post it’s a literal throwaway vote. I don’t like it anymore than (i assume) you do, but that is how it is, and those are the rules we have to play with.
I was with you on this up until this election. But there was only 1 major party for democracy in 2024, and it was extremely clear for anyone who held America in any respect/esteem/standing. Trump holds just about everything that makes America, America, in contempt. He’s a known misogynist, xenophobe, transphobe, racist, thin-skinned, power-hungry, lying, treasonous, child who wouldn’t be able to hold down a job as a walmart greeter if he actually had to work a day in his life.
Anyone who describes what just happened as “holding politicians accountable” is not on the same side as me.
I’m actually not angry or anything. I just think empireInDecay is being dishonest, and blindly repeating various talking points and a particular seductive framing for what happened in the election, in a way that makes no attempt to be grounded in any reality. They don’t seem to be here for any kind of conversation. They seem to want to broadcast a particular point of view and ignore anyone who says anything different, and hope that the judgement they’re broadcasting about what just happened in the election, why it happened, and what to do about it in the future (“hold politicians accountable” some more, presumably) will take hold through sheer repetition, instead of through any kind of reasoned justification of it being accurate.
Yeah, I get strong tankie vibes off them. There is a big difference between saying, “I’m not voting for Dems because they won’t stop Republicans”, and saying, “I’m glad Dems lost (to Republicans)”. They seemingly have more animosity towards neolib Dems than actual fascists.
Because Neolibs are actual fascists.
Suicidal as a VP. Why don’t people get this.
You think Biden was going to what? Fire her 2 months before the election? She had literally nothing forcing her to stay Biden’s course. She’s also not beholden to her VP role while campaigning.