An extraordinary warning call to a Palestinian dentist starts the panicked evacuation of a Gazan neighbourhood.

By Alice Cuddy BBC News, Jerusalem

The call to Mahmoud Shaheen came at dawn.

It was Thursday 19 October at about 06:30, and Israel had been bombing Gaza for 12 days straight.

He’d been in his third-floor, three-bedroom flat in al-Zahra, a middle-class area in the north of the Gaza Strip. Until now, it had been largely untouched by air strikes.

He’d heard a rising clamour outside. People were screaming. “You need to escape,” somebody in the street shouted, “because they will bomb the towers”.

    • Macros@feddit.deEnglish
      4714·
      8 months ago

      If you feel the need to express your unswerving support for the actions of the Israeli state under this news article, please tell us, how you see the mass destruction of civilian homes justified and necessary.

      Usual disclaimer: I support neither side here. Both use horrible methods to achieve their goals and I hope for a ceasefire and improvement of both governments. From my limited information a revolution will likely be needed in case of Palestine, in Israel elections may suffice.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
              213·
              8 months ago

              A permanent ceasefire that involves lifting the blockade. It worked in 2008 and 2012, except for the part where Israel didn’t actually lift the blockade. Then a real two-state solution, none of this one state, one ghetto and a bunch of Bantustans nonsense Israel is doing. Remember: Peace only lost support in Palestine because it didn’t work, not because Palestinians don’t want peace.

              To quote Bassem Youssef, terrorism is a virus, and to get rid of a virus you need to give the patient water, nutrients and rest. You don’t get rid of viruses by hitting the patient with a sledgehammer.

                • filister@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  63·
                  8 months ago

                  Hmm, they managed to rescue 1/240 hostages for a month. Apparently that’s a pretty bad score. Not to mention that they are actively bombing tunnels where those hostages are thought to be held, so potentially they have killed some of them.

                  And by disabling Hamas ability to strike they killed ten thousand and counting people, destroyed civilian infrastructure, and caused unimaginable humanitarian catastrophe. Committed numerous war crimes and in general they showed to the world that they aren’t any better than Hamas if not worse.

                  Mind you by the time this all ends up the human cost and suffering inflicted on the regular civilians would be even greater. And I can tell you that’s a recipe for a disaster. You can’t dehumanize people and push them to the edge and then expect them to co-operate. I wonder what would be left of Gaza by the time Israel sate their bloodlust.

                • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
                  21·
                  8 months ago

                  Returning the kidnapped Israelis home.
                  Disabling Hamas’ ability to strike.

                  And none of those will be accomplished with what Israel is doing. Hamas will need time to recover, but “being unable to strike” isn’t happening. They have enough foreign support and a wealth of recruits.

            • otp@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              131·
              8 months ago

              I don’t have a solution. I’m half a planet away, and geopolitics is not my field. I’m not a world leader, nor a military strategist, or anything that would qualify me to make a decision or have an informed answer.

              I might be a spineless fence-sitter, but I don’t like what Israel is doing, and I don’t like what Hamas is doing. For that reason, I wouldn’t call myself pro-Israel or pro-Hamas.

            • satan@r.nfEnglish
              7·
              8 months ago

              Do you think the number or recruits increased or decreased after incessantly murdering innocent civilians?

            • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.worldEnglish
              32·
              8 months ago

              I just want to ask also, how do you stop more Hamas by killing people? You don’t. The Hydra effect will guarantee that any one terrorist killed will breed two more. Yesterday my partner looked at me and said, “If Israel had killed my entire family, I would probably join Hamas”, and he’s an atheist and a Brit who learned most of what he learned about Hamas this year.

              What Israel is doing is creating more opportunities for massacre in the future. I am not sure why, but I’m convinced there is a genocidal agenda here.

        • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
          263·
          8 months ago

          It is true that the actions of the military kill innocents. I think it would’ve happened even without Hamas using them as human shields.

          But should Israel simply stand idle as it’s citizens are slaughtered and kidnapped? If so, then why?

          That’s a false dichotomy, and one alternative approach was already provided in the comment you originally replied to.

          the Israeli State holds a humongous power advantage. They don’t use that power disparity to deescalate and integrate the Palestinian people to prevent Hamas from having support. Instead they do shit like this where they drive Palestinians straight into Hamas’ hands, because the Palestinian people are given no other option to turn to.

          Certainly there are even more alternatives that exist in the miles wide gap between “raze all of gaza” and “stand idle”.

          • kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social
            71·
            8 months ago

            Certainly there are even more alternatives that exist in the miles wide gap between “raze all of gaza” and “stand idle”.

            First they should try to invest into defense, maybe some sort of air defense system to mitigate the almost daily rocket and missile launches.

            • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
              171·
              8 months ago

              How can the IDF pull back and not get another surprise attack in three weeks?

              Now that they have killed so many civilians, it’s gonna be tough. They aren’t making it better as they continue destroying homes, hospitals, and refugee camps though. The time to try treating them like humans was before the recent attack.

              Here’s what I can tell you for sure:

              • You don’t reduce the number of terrorists by making it crystal clear that you give zero shits about civilian deaths
              • Whatever actions would lead to a reduction in terrorism from Gaza are going to start with humanitarian outreach, not bombs
              • And let’s not forget those illegal settlements which are a constant provocation.
              • Whatever the correct actions look like - they are going to need to account for the fact that they’ve just created shitloads more ill will than even was there previously.

              Do my bullet points solve the problem? Hell no. But my (or your) inability to come up with a solution doesn’t mean there isn’t a better one than what they are currently doing, and doesn’t support the idea that their only other option is to do nothing. Neither of us (presumably) are world leaders with experience in this area. But when shit comes out of my sink faucets, I don’t need to be a plumber to know that mine has fucked up.

        • Macros@feddit.deEnglish
          202·
          8 months ago

          Yes Hamas is a terror organization, no, that does not allow you to behave like a terror organization when fighting them.

          If you have read the article this is not about innocents which where at the wrong place a the wrong time. This article is about deliberate destruction of civilian buildings without giving any justification besides ‘There are some things that we see that you don’t see.’ in some cases evacuation was allowed, in some cases no time for evacuation was given. There is in my eyes no justification for this.

          I never said that Israel should stand idle. So don’t push that opinion on me.

          What could be done? Attack military targets only, give civilians time to evacuate. (Yes a civilian home becomes a military target if it is used as weapons stash/factory, but there was no indication at all in the cases listed in the article), support the more moderate Fatah in regaining control. Support new democratic elections. Provide help in forms primarily targeted at civilians: Food, water, education. Allow students from the Gaza Strip to study abroad. Part of that is already done, but hampered by the military actions.

          Destroying peoples homes and basic utilities will only ensure that hate on Israel grows and support for Hamas remains steady.

        • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.worldEnglish
          613·
          8 months ago

          This is the thing that gets me - what would you do if someone barricaded themselves inside a house next door, kept taking pot shots and you and stealing people off the street? I would shoot back.

            • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.worldEnglish
              813·
              8 months ago

              Until you realise you locked them in the house after them and their friends tried to take your back yard when you were having a domestic with your partner, and a founding part of their cult is that you need to die.

              (Hamas not cult, just analogy)

              • Grimy@lemmy.worldEnglish
                161·
                8 months ago

                Israel is literally the one stealing backyards, and when it can’t, it bombs them.

              • SilentStorms@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                2·
                8 months ago

                Nah if we’re gonna continue this analogy, it’s like if you come across a village of 50 people then force everyone into one house so you can have your friends move into the other houses. Then 1 of those 50 starts shooting at you. So then you drop a grenade in the house, kill a bunch of their kids and shoot their dog.

          • Damage@feddit.itEnglish
            121·
            8 months ago

            And would kill 10 innocents in the house just to get to that one guy?

              • filister@lemmy.worldEnglish
                53·
                8 months ago

                So how are you any better than the terrorist you condemn, by openly admitting you are ready to shoot 10 civilians? At what number of civilians do you make the cut 20, 50, 100, 500, 1000?

    • dasgoat@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3912·
      8 months ago

      It’s so cool how people who support a genocide will just straight up tell you like this.

    • VaultBoyNewVegas@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4619·
      8 months ago

      Poor fucking you. Could try having some sympathy for the kids killed in a paediatric hospital in the last week.

        • Serdan@lemm.eeEnglish
          212·
          8 months ago

          I’ve been called a terrorist supporter for explicitly expressing concern for the innocent victims 🤷

        • eric@lemmy.world
          English
          212·
          8 months ago

          You’d think as an oppressed minority in the world, you’d be more outraged at Israel for their continued oppression of Palestinians. I know plenty of other Jews that feel this way.

            • eric@lemmy.world
              English
              62·
              8 months ago

              Almost no one out there is supporting Hamas, and if you unilaterally support Israel, you are anti-Palestinian. The fact that you think fighting Hamas includes indiscriminately bombing civilians shows you are in support of the ongoing genocide of an ethnic minority. And to call yourself a minority to try to gain sympathy is pathetic at best. The KKK is also a minority, so by your logic, we should all try to sympathize with their plight.

        • Grimy@lemmy.worldEnglish
          112·
          8 months ago

          imagine hearing a neo nazi talk like you do. That’s how people are starting to associate Israel and their genocide.

          You aren’t a persecuted minority, you’re just a person that willingly doesn’t want to understand so the hate can continue. What is happening is clearly not okay to anyone with even a hint of a moral compass.

            • Grimy@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5·
              8 months ago

              I brought up neo Nazis so you would understand that you are as much a persecuted minority as they are. By supporting Israel and not criticizing them loudly, you are encouraging more civilian bloodshed.

              I never outright called you a nazi, but you are someone that supports a racist apartheid state that is currently in the middle of a genocide. It’s not a good look.

              I know it’s hard to realize that all the truths you were raised on were lies, that even family members can be downright evil in what they say and hope for. You can either keep the cycle going or be an adult about it.

    • SilentStorms@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      2011·
      8 months ago

      Funny how you just completely confirmed OPs hesitancy to post. You are not a minority for supporting the IDF.

    • oxf@lemmy.worldEnglish
      620·
      8 months ago

      Notice how the comment you replied to, despite claiming they “always get hate” has nothing but supportive people upvoting, while you have 3 angry lions going for the neck because you dare to say you support Israel…

      It has come too far to ever work. This community, @world, is no longer a place for biased news. I have had to block for a long time, but just came back to see if it was still such a mess. Turns out it is.

      The worst thing is that the mods here are directly supporting this.

        • oxf@lemmy.worldEnglish
          44·
          8 months ago

          Yes, I meant unbiased, sorry.

          But look at our scores. We are voices that defies the echo chamber. Therefor we must be silenced.

          It sucks, because I actually genuinely was happy for Lemmy, and had moved all my browsing over here. But alas, it seems that I can no longer use this platform for news. I will go back to having this community blocked.

          PS) Try going to r/worldnews and Reddit, and check what the tone of audience is over there. Much more biased towards Israel, which is a no-brainer in my world.