This consumer made that decision because the Model 3 has a tiny triangular door that is frustrating for tall people to use, plus I want to give my teenagers room to be comfortable in the back seat. It’s reasonable to upgrade from a car that “seats 5” legally to one that actually seats your family comfortably.
I understand that to some of you I’m part of the problem, but I see an awful lot of single people commuting to offices in trucks and full sized SUVs, so I like to think that’s different
This consumer made that decision because the Model 3 has a tiny triangular door
…what? It’s a very typical door, I’m not sure what you mean.
It’s reasonable to upgrade from a car that “seats 5” legally to one that actually seats your family comfortably.
No one said it was unreasonable. And I don’t blame anyone for not riding bikes or walking to work every day. It’s very difficult to “go green” while some people who don’t give a single fuck consume more in a week than you or I will in a lifetime. It all just feels very fruitless.
I don’t see how the door on a Model 3 is tiny? I’ve been in my friend’s, as well as in countless taxis, and never had an issue, just seems like a normal size/shape door to me.
I doubt it’d be used so extensively for taxis if it was difficult to get in/out of.
the pillar is too far forward, so us talker people need to maneuver in and back. However it’s too narrow to bend a little at the waist to get in, so I need an extra joint in the middle of my back. Usually I make do by jamming my head against the car frame to force my neck to bend down to my shoulder. Not fun
I do not deny that a segment of consumers want large cars. I, myself, have need for a 9+ passenger vehicle with a >10,000lb tow rating. A modern Suburban is actually too small to meet the needs of my summer and daytime business, which involves hauling customers and equipment across the county. But, I still have plenty of options on the market for that large vehicle.
But, my winter and nighttime business calls for a very small, very lightweight vehicle. 30-year-old subcompact designs are more fuel efficient and suitable for couriers (DoorDash, GrubHub, etc.) than anything currently being manufactured. I can’t buy a new subcompact vehicle: there is nothing currently on the market that ideally meets my business needs.
The closest I can find in terms of ideal size and weight would be a Japanese Kei truck, but maintenance would be a nightmare.
You are not getting an accurate picture of consumer preference, because the segment of the consumer base demanding small vehicles is not having its needs met.
Also, obligatory “Fuck Tesla”. Fuck their lack of door handles. Fuck their lack of buttons. Fuck their touchscreens. Fuck their quality and workmanship. And triple fuck the politics of their CEO.
I can’t buy a new subcompact vehicle: there is nothing currently on the market that ideally meets my business needs.
I’m curious what kind of “business need” you have that could be met by a subcompact from 30 years ago but NOT by a Chevy Bolt or Chevy EUV? Either of those have an mpge rating of more than DOUBLE what an old Honda Civic Hatchback or Kei truck could manage plus more cargo space than either of them! The Bolt’s are fairly inexpensive too, 2020 models can be bought used for less than $18,000 and 2017s for less than $14,000.
“More cargo space” is the battle cry of the “bigger is better” crowd, so I reject that argument outright.
Yes, the bolt has better economy. But, the 1990 Honda Civic was 20 inches shorter and 4 inches narrower. An updated Honda Civic with an equivalent drivetrain as the bolt would be smaller and lighter, and thus be getting even better mileage than the bolt.
Those extra 20 inches in length and 4 inches in width are necessary for the bolt to meet modern emissions standards. Shorten it by 20 inches and narrow it by 4, and Chevy wouldn’t be allowed to produce it, even though it would have a higher economy.
“More cargo space” is the battle cry of the “bigger is better” crowd, so I reject that argument outright.
Then I reject your consideration of a Kei Truck as cargo space obviously isn’t a concern for you.
But, the 1990 Honda Civic was 20 inches shorter and 4 inches narrower. An updated Honda Civic with an equivalent drivetrain as the bolt would be smaller and lighter…
Unrealistic as it could not be sold. A 1990 Honda Civic lacks crumple zones and other safety features that are now required on vehicles in the United States.
…and thus be getting even better mileage than the bolt.
Nope, the additional safety features make the footprint lager and the vehicle heavier.
Those extra 20 inches in length and 4 inches in width are necessary for the bolt to meet modern emissions standards.
Sigh, the Bolt doesn’t HAVE any emissions. It’s a straight EV. The extra size over a 1990 Honda Civic are for the required safety features and drivetrain.
Yes, the bolt has better economy.
So what’s the problem? A domestic auto manufacturer DOES in fact make something that would work and that something is superior in every way to a sub-compact from 30 years ago. Go buy one.
Unrealistic as it could not be sold. A 1990 Honda Civic lacks crumple zones and other safety features that are now required on vehicles in the United States.
So, you’re saying it’s a regulatory preference for larger vehicles, not a consumer preference, right?
Then I reject your consideration of a Kei Truck as cargo space obviously isn’t a concern for you.
The maximum length of a Kei truck is 30" shorter than the 1990’s Civic. The maximum width of a Kei truck is 6" narrower than the Civic. Your criticism of the Kei truck is nonsensical.
No, I’m saying that there’s vehicles made and sold in the United States today that fit your “business need”. The rest of this is you making some bizarre argument about a fictional vehicle that could hypothetically be better.
I can’t buy a new subcompact vehicle: there is nothing currently on the market that ideally meets my business needs.
You are not getting an accurate picture of consumer preference, because the segment of the consumer base demanding small vehicles is not having its needs met.
There are way more than enough small vehicles to choose from. You’re just wrong on this one.
Maverick is 7 inches longer, 4 inches wider, and 5 inches taller than a 1990’s Ranger. Despite that, the Ranger’s bed is 20 inches longer than the Maverick’s.
The Maverick is more comparable to a 1990’s F-150 than the Ranger. Maverick is 6" longer than a 1990s F-150 with the same bed length
The reason they don’t make a 2-door version is because the shorter length of a 2-door would tighten the CAFE standards, and it would not be able to comply.
Look at Tesla 3/Y. The Y outsells the 3, despite being virtually identical except taller, and priced ~$10k (25%) more.
The consumer base wants larger vehicles.
This consumer made that decision because the Model 3 has a tiny triangular door that is frustrating for tall people to use, plus I want to give my teenagers room to be comfortable in the back seat. It’s reasonable to upgrade from a car that “seats 5” legally to one that actually seats your family comfortably.
I understand that to some of you I’m part of the problem, but I see an awful lot of single people commuting to offices in trucks and full sized SUVs, so I like to think that’s different
…what? It’s a very typical door, I’m not sure what you mean.
No one said it was unreasonable. And I don’t blame anyone for not riding bikes or walking to work every day. It’s very difficult to “go green” while some people who don’t give a single fuck consume more in a week than you or I will in a lifetime. It all just feels very fruitless.
I don’t see how the door on a Model 3 is tiny? I’ve been in my friend’s, as well as in countless taxis, and never had an issue, just seems like a normal size/shape door to me.
I doubt it’d be used so extensively for taxis if it was difficult to get in/out of.
I do not deny that a segment of consumers want large cars. I, myself, have need for a 9+ passenger vehicle with a >10,000lb tow rating. A modern Suburban is actually too small to meet the needs of my summer and daytime business, which involves hauling customers and equipment across the county. But, I still have plenty of options on the market for that large vehicle.
But, my winter and nighttime business calls for a very small, very lightweight vehicle. 30-year-old subcompact designs are more fuel efficient and suitable for couriers (DoorDash, GrubHub, etc.) than anything currently being manufactured. I can’t buy a new subcompact vehicle: there is nothing currently on the market that ideally meets my business needs.
The closest I can find in terms of ideal size and weight would be a Japanese Kei truck, but maintenance would be a nightmare.
You are not getting an accurate picture of consumer preference, because the segment of the consumer base demanding small vehicles is not having its needs met.
Also, obligatory “Fuck Tesla”. Fuck their lack of door handles. Fuck their lack of buttons. Fuck their touchscreens. Fuck their quality and workmanship. And triple fuck the politics of their CEO.
I’m curious what kind of “business need” you have that could be met by a subcompact from 30 years ago but NOT by a Chevy Bolt or Chevy EUV? Either of those have an mpge rating of more than DOUBLE what an old Honda Civic Hatchback or Kei truck could manage plus more cargo space than either of them! The Bolt’s are fairly inexpensive too, 2020 models can be bought used for less than $18,000 and 2017s for less than $14,000.
“More cargo space” is the battle cry of the “bigger is better” crowd, so I reject that argument outright.
Yes, the bolt has better economy. But, the 1990 Honda Civic was 20 inches shorter and 4 inches narrower. An updated Honda Civic with an equivalent drivetrain as the bolt would be smaller and lighter, and thus be getting even better mileage than the bolt.
Those extra 20 inches in length and 4 inches in width are necessary for the bolt to meet modern emissions standards. Shorten it by 20 inches and narrow it by 4, and Chevy wouldn’t be allowed to produce it, even though it would have a higher economy.
Then I reject your consideration of a Kei Truck as cargo space obviously isn’t a concern for you.
Unrealistic as it could not be sold. A 1990 Honda Civic lacks crumple zones and other safety features that are now required on vehicles in the United States.
Nope, the additional safety features make the footprint lager and the vehicle heavier.
Sigh, the Bolt doesn’t HAVE any emissions. It’s a straight EV. The extra size over a 1990 Honda Civic are for the required safety features and drivetrain.
So what’s the problem? A domestic auto manufacturer DOES in fact make something that would work and that something is superior in every way to a sub-compact from 30 years ago. Go buy one.
So, you’re saying it’s a regulatory preference for larger vehicles, not a consumer preference, right?
The maximum length of a Kei truck is 30" shorter than the 1990’s Civic. The maximum width of a Kei truck is 6" narrower than the Civic. Your criticism of the Kei truck is nonsensical.
No, I’m saying that there’s vehicles made and sold in the United States today that fit your “business need”. The rest of this is you making some bizarre argument about a fictional vehicle that could hypothetically be better.
Yeah there is, go buy it and quit your whining.
There are way more than enough small vehicles to choose from. You’re just wrong on this one.
Nothing as small as was common in the 90’s. Regulatory standards and manufacturer preference - not consumer demand - is forcing vehicles to be larger.
You can’t even get an S10 or Ranger sized pickup anymore.
Sure we do. Ever seen a Smart car? A Mini? Honda Fit? Chevy Spark? Mazda 2? Miata? BR-Z?
It’s all of the above.
What regulatory standards are preventing more manufacturers from selling sedans and hatchbacks?
Sure you can. Look up Ford Maverick.
Maverick is 7 inches longer, 4 inches wider, and 5 inches taller than a 1990’s Ranger. Despite that, the Ranger’s bed is 20 inches longer than the Maverick’s.
The Maverick is more comparable to a 1990’s F-150 than the Ranger. Maverick is 6" longer than a 1990s F-150 with the same bed length
CAFE standards favor the larger footprint.
Because they have 4 doors. That’s not part of any CAFE standard.
The reason they don’t make a 2-door version is because the shorter length of a 2-door would tighten the CAFE standards, and it would not be able to comply.
It doesn’t have to be shorter