Commentary: Longtime former Republican on Patrick Deneen and the demise of the conservative intellectual

  • Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This is incorrect.

    There is a such thing as a “conservative intellectual”. It’s just that they’ve been long since drowned out by the rest of the party, and the right-wing voting base has no appetite for actual, sensible conservative policies right now.

    • gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Go ahead and list an example of one of those past conservative intellectuals and we’ll see how long it takes to dig up an example of them saying something like Civil Rights protesters are all secret communist agents or that child labor and vagrancy laws and debtors prisons are good things.

      Like, I get the appeal in wanting to believe the other side is just as smart and well meaning as our side is, but there’s just no basis for that in the historical record. They’ve always been like this and we just keep forgetting.

      • Zorque@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        One can be an intellectual and still a huge piece of shit. Theyre not mutually exclusive. People like Milton Friedman or Henry Kissinger a undebatably intellectuals… but that doesn’t mean they’re angels. It just means they wield their intellect as a whip to beat their opponents with, rather than raising society as a whole.

        Honestly this whole “conservatives are just a bunch of dumb rabid animals” is they exact sentiment they want us to feel. Because then we never look at the deeper issues that are actually affecting our world.

        • gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Honestly this whole “conservatives are just a bunch of dumb rabid animals” is they exact sentiment they want us to feel. Because then we never look at the deeper issues that are actually affecting our world.

          I for one would love to look at the deeper issues that are actually affecting our world, but I end up wasting a ton of my time replying to dumb rabid animal shit David Brooks gets to smear all over the New York Times op-ed page when my older relatives who vote in every single election send me his columns because they think that he makes some good points about “Cultural Marxism”

        • sauerkraus@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          For example, Karl Marx. Clearly an intellectual as evidenced by his writings. But his colorblind/radical centrist take on minority rights fits right in with modern conservative extremists. And then the way he framed his opinions led to far right authoritarian regimes co-opting the label of communism.

          • m532@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Muh nazis were akschually leftwing and communists rightwing… Typical nazi tactic

            • sauerkraus@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              If you think that right wing authoritarianism is communism, I’ve got a democratic republic to sell. The only way tankie logic is consistent is if you believe that Nazis were socialists and North Korea is democratic. But somehow those are not true yet the USSR was communist? You gotta stop gulping down the imperialist propaganda. I could forgive someone for believing it during the Red Scare, but these days there’s no excuse.

              Tankie apologetics are a farce.

              • m532@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                You are the imperialist here, yankee. Did you send tanks into iraq, huh? Will you call me a judeo-bolshevik now?

                • sauerkraus@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Since you capitalised National Socialists like a proper noun I’ll assume you are referring to Nazis. The answer to that is yes, Nazis were not socialists. Socialists were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis after attaining majority power.

                  A bit like how communists were oppressed in the USSR, or how democrats are oppressed in North Korea.

                  The U.S. was more than happy to conflate Marxist-Leninists(tankies) with communists because it made communists look bad. Tankies are all in on continuing to conflate their own ideology with communism because they understand that being proud of right wing extremist ideology is a bad look.

                  • m532@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Yankeeland is the most fash country, but the fash dont wanna be called fash, so they call the nonwesterners fash. Typical racist tactic.

    • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Name one conservative policy that has furthered mankind. Prohibition, voting rights, sexuality, drug war, terrorism; time after time they’ve been wrong. Even fiscally they run up the deficit. Their only role is to preserve hierarchy and maintain power

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        George W Bush massively expanded US Free Trade agreements. We went from 3 to 16 under his admin. That’s good for the entire world.

        Pretty much the only thing I don’t like about Biden is his protectionist stance.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            The former, yes, the latter I bet we have significant disagreements on the definition of

            • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Tangentially, if you’re interested in rabbit holes, there’s a book by Matt Kennard called Silent Coup that deals with corporate influence over trade, it looks at the agreements countries have to sign to get corporations into their countries.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I’m well aware of this process and support it. Countries are welcome to make any deals they’d like. They’re presumably intelligent, independent entities making decisions in their own best interest.

                • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  So you’re in favor of BRICS and the devaluation of the petrodollar, if those countries choose to do that?

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I recognize their right and potential desire to do it, but I think the likely economic responses and ensuing global downturn isn’t worth the eventual possible payoff for them

                    As an example of an actual unpopular opinion I have, I think it’s good that countries sell Nestle their water rights and then buy water back from them, if it results in a large enough economic impact for their nation.

      • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        Name one conservative policy that has furthered mankind.

        Richard Nixon was at the helm when the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) was founded. I believe he also was responsible for protecting national parks, but I didn’t bother fact-checking that one.

        https://www.epa.gov/history#:~:text=EPA was created on December,human health and the environment.

        Now, granted, modern conservative politics are garbage-culture war bullshit, but we need to be cautious of forgetting history. Rewriting history is their game.

        • sauerkraus@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Progressive policies implemented during a conservative presidency don’t seem like conservative policies.

          • ECIN96@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            If you can just hijack any and all “good” policies as inherently progressive then you’re just a self-fuelling fire who wants to hate conservatives no matter what.

            • sauerkraus@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I wouldn’t be crediting them with enacting good policy if it wasn’t progressive.

              If you can show an example of opposing progress that is good I’m all in on that conservative policy.

              The ESA was not good because it maintained the status quo. It was good because it was progressive. The fact that it was implemented during a conservative presidency is irrelevant.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                You’re buying in too much to the branding of big-P Progressive. The EPA, and environmental protections, are inherently little-c conservative positions.

                Not everything that is good is Progressive, and not everything Progressives want is good, or even intelligent. Rent control, as one very basic example, doesn’t work, and yet Progressives across America push it.

                • Tigerfishy@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  What doesn’t work about it? (I honestly know nothing about it, but I know there are things that sound great on paper and propaganda but in practice it’s bull)

      • Shatterdome@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Progressivism is moving towards collective goals. Conservatism is protecting individual freedoms.

        You many see individual freedoms differently than they do but that is the core fundamental policy they protect.

        • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          What you’re saying is true in theory, but the American Republican party has absolutely nothing in common with it.

          Just look at the patriot act, torture, detention, TSA, and all the other shit pushed through by the GOP that has decimated freedoms and privacy.

          The ONLY individual freedom the GOP protects unconditionally is for everyone and their uncle to own guns. Nevermind if your uncle is a lunatic, they’ll protect his freedom to be armed to the teeth.