Terminally unserious understanding of history and scale, the comparison in-and-of-itself trivializes the Holocaust 
Equating the two might qualify as actual Holocaust denial.
According to some Jewish orgs it would (sometimes they’re also Zionist themselves though, especially all the big ones like the ADL). Depends what they think of the Beijing riots, but they essentially all consider downplaying the Holocaust as being Holocaust denial. Good catch comrade
I mean zionism and evaluating acts of holocaust denial don’t intersect unless they’re somehow being used in bad faith. A zionist can assess holocaust denial, be right, and still be a zionist.
Exactly what I came to post but without the might
It is. Likewise for the “holodomor” tripe.
Was about to mention that. Might as well have the libs slap this on top of the double genocide historical negationism they and the fascists love to push
Everything is the Holocaust nowadays. Nobody gives a shit about the actual genocide, just the fact that they helped stop it so they’re the good guys and that everybody bad is literally Hitler
Obligatory: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist
I also did my own research on this awhile back, and what I found was:
- There was no massacre in the square or anywhere else, full stop.
- There was violence elsewhere in the city, but it wasn’t as one sided as western media would likely portray and several soldiers were killed by rioters in addition to civilians killed.
- The official numbers of dead and wounded likely at least comes close to the official data released.
- The CIA was involved in pushing the protests, and then helped the protest leaders escape after the fact. In other words, it wasn’t just ordinary Chinese people protesting.
- There were legitimate grievances that helped fuel the protests. This also included many who were upset about China’s policies around economic liberalization and the problems that created, which flies in the face of the western narrative.
- There’s room for criticism regarding how it was handled, but again there’s no serious evidence that any “massacre” took place and there’s also evidence of intent to avoid violence in many cases.
Again, this is what I arrived at, but feel free to chime in if any of this is wildly wrong.
Wasn’t it a mix of a Maoist(collective workers who want to return from pre-Deng reforms) and liberal(economic free trade supporter students who want to move China post-Deng reforms and go to neoliberalism) protestors at the scene.
The problem with the color revolutions angle sometimes is that it reduces the role the masses play in the the protest who want real change. The CIA co-opts everything it has within reach.
Edit: Ah, read your fifth bullet point.
There were a lot of different groups, especially early on. There were even some people seemingly protesting the admission of African students to Chinese universities (there was a banner reading “protect Chinese women”, a slogan used at a more focused reactionary protest not long prior)
I think “insurgents” is more appropriate than rioters. They ambushed unarmed PLA troops with molotovs and burned them alive in their trucks and APCs, then egaged the PLA with guns.
Afaik the CIA contingent was very small and the overwhelming majority of students were protesting the Deng government’s liberalization of the market. THere was also a social component - They wanted more social freedom to date and generally be kids, and felt that the very strict traditional expectations put on them were not in line with Communist thought.
Afaik the CIA contingent was very small and the overwhelming majority of students were protesting the Deng government’s liberalization of the market.
These are some of the sources for my claim about CIA involvement that I dug up on newspapers.com:
I think you’re right, but it definitely seems like the “student pro-democracy” leaders were in cahoots with the CIA. Here’s more info on the CIA op to help them escape law enforcement after the fact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird
Also as an unrelated bonus, here’s a great “stupid sexy Fidel” article from I think 1959 or 1960 that I also found on the newspapers site:
it’s ingroup signaling one-up-manship, how will they top themselves next?
“the massacre killed hundreds”
“uh, the massacre killed thousands”
“pretty sure the massacre was equal to the holocaust”
“the true holocene extinction event was perpetrated by china in the nineties”
“the tanks flattened earth, it used to be round”
A lot of them still believe the 10,000 number.
lemmee users are so used to being in an echo chamber that the real world is a shock to them
This one is a worlder, so they’re even more
eh, basically the same thing tbh
Nah let’s be real the real world in the West has none of what we’re saying, which is why they’re experiencing such culture shock
you’d be surprised
(not american)(not american)
It’s so funny seeing them confused that they can’t peddle the same tired bullshit tactics they’ve been using everywhere else. They’re so used to being completely unopposed in society that it’s genuinely a shock that someone would dare to impugn their intellectual superiority
It’s like a deranged family eating dog shit for dinner every night, telling each other how good the dog shit tastes and how they’re sophisticated and superior for their fine taste in dog shit.
Then they try feeding their delicious dog shit to strangers on the street, everyone goes “yo that’s literally dog shit I’m not fuckin’ eating that” and they go back inside to bitch and cry and moan about the authoritarian strangers who refuse to admit that dog shit is objectively gourmet food
well maybe it is, have you tried it? Can you really say?
Seriously. They’re completely trapped in the all encompassing US propaganda net and have no idea.
Dipshits like this think Tank Man was squashed by the tank.
If the incident happened in america, tank man would’ve been run over.
“and that [insert slur here] wouldve deserved it, actions have consequences!”
t.
, 
Beep boop >Mention of China detected
Boop boop >analysis of emotion and intent
Boop boop boop??? >alert: praise of China detected by heuristic LLM
Beep >:( >PRINT: [gnkn23n1123jrnvf] “Lemmy is full of bots that propagandize about China!”
if 'china' in comment.casefold():if leBadDetectorLLM(comment,'china') == False:print("Lemmy is full of bots that propagandize about China!")ficoScore += 500
I hate when libs cry about a genocide when one happens even closer to them and they have political potential to do something about it but they dont.
It’s like, you have a heart, dont you? You have no influence on China’s policies, whether or not it’s real. But the ones perpetrated by your own governments, that you make a big deal in voting in representatives for? Crickets. What makes these different? What makes THESE lives so important that you want to destabilize the country over it, but THOSE lives you barely acknowledge the horrific loses and brutal ways in which their lives were snuffed out by means with your country’s name is painted somewhere on it’s side? You have an equal chance to have ever met either these people.
I hope they can never escape the sin of the world they support. For every family that didnt make it across the border, for every life lost in the sea trying to reach shore. Curse you to learn every single name of every single person who did everything they could to reach safety, but you got in the way of it.
Seriously! What about Yemen? What about Yemen? What about fucking Yemen? Even if China really did bulldoze ten thousand people, why is this such a fixation when the US and Saudi were very deliberately attacking vital civilian infrastructure in order to kill as many civilians as possible in what fits every definition of genocide? It only ended, what, this year? Last year? WHAT ABOUT YEMEN? WHY DON’T ANY OF THESE FUCKING FREAKS KNOW OR CARE ABOUT YEMEN? God it’s so frightening.
Because the news didn’t portray it like that
It’s fucking me up. Like the same way people refusing to take the pandemic seriously fucked me up. It’s something important and so simple and i just couldn’t make anyone care. God they killed all those people.
People will rather just not think about stuff and if the man on the TV says things are fine, they are very inclined to go along with him
Some of the most dogmatic dickheads I’ve encountered, the really sanctimonious ones, will say something like, Oh yeah, I condemn them both, two wrongs don’t make a right, etc
I have so much trouble accepting how they do that. They obsess about the righteousness of their cause and scream at anyone who question’s their government’s narrative while their government is doing what they believe the enemy is doing. And there’s no hemming and hawing and abusing the definition of genocide with yemen. They were deliberately blockading food shipments and killing clean water processing to spread cholera to cause mass civilian death.
But the libs never talk about it. There’s no calling Biden or Obama madmen for their crimes. It’s pure team sports. I don’t understand it and I’m glad I don’t understand it.
What about Yemen? China brokered a peace between Saudi and Iran which brought a ceasefire is what…
This is what I always say, we’re being played for fools spending so much time talking about whether or not there’s a genocide in Xinjiang, which, if true, we’d have absolutely nothing we could do to help, meanwhile Black, Indigenous, and queer folk in the US are being brutalized. The reason it frustrates me is twofold, one because of the point you bring up, that we have no influence on their policies regardless of if it’s real or not; but to me the second point which is just as important, there is no Western Imperialist country with less blood in their hands than China, literally every single Imperial core country has orders of magnitude more deaths than even the wildest imagination of anticommunists could accuse China of having. So what’s the deal? It’s just projection.
I think it’s worse than that, this primes them to even cheapen the horrific concept of a genocide.
this is the one that gets me every time. they’ve all forgotten what’s happening on our borders, they’ve never heard of Yemen, and they’ve thrown Palestine completely under the bus.
It’s just so frightening. How can they be like this? Just this religious obsession with a massacre that didn’t happen thirty years ago, while completely indifferent to real horrors being perpetrated by their own government right now? What is WRONG with them?
Their “humane concerns” will be just another fodder used which to terrorize, oppress and exploit other countries. Having a struggle session about how western leftists shouldn’t support china/Russia does nothing, we can only influence our governments by ADDING to the propaganda by giving libs “reasonable” points AGAINST russia/china, which is why the inherent stance by every western leftist should be indifference or critical support.
Whichever
or think tank sociopath came up with “whataboutism” is better at their job then all the rest of them combined.
Bitching and whining about China gets you brownie points in lib circles
This isn’t far off from that one billionaire vampire that had the chutzpah to go on TV and wail that people disliking billionaires was equivalent to the Holocaust.
Comparing tiananmen to the holocaust is holocaust denial.
The problem with liberals is that rather than thinking Holocaust denial is this one exception to general academic practice of open discussion (that probably isn’t great practice but really only Nazis seem to suffer from this arrangement so w/e), they want to generalize it.
As you are cast out of society for denying the Holocaust, so should you be for any disagreement with the historical record as interpreted by the US State Department.
I would love it if these dronies were at least honest about this, but I honestly don’t think most of them have even thought about how this is what they’re doing.
What the fuck is it with them and Tienanmen? Why is that specific event of such religious significance?
deleted by creator
I thought the GLF or cultural revolution filled that role.
People can’t string a sentence together about the “crimes” in either except that there was a famine at some point, they are too lazy to even read their anticommunist literature. “Tiananmen Square Massacre” has the crime right in the title, no further reading necessary!
Those don’t quite tickle the lib’s fancy in the same way. The GLF is just “baddie bad man being bad” to them, and the cultural revolution is similar. It’s just the scene in the movie where the villain shoots a puppy or something to show how evil they are.
But Tienanmen square is different. It is presented to the people in the west as Chinese people rising up against oppression, and crucially, failing to succeed. This is why they love it so much. Those Chinese people want freedom, but they can’t do it alone, they need the help of the west! They need the west to come and free them! It’s an invitation to do whatever horrific things they want to China in the name of “freeing them” because according to the western narrative, that’s exactly what they want.
Weird, because the cpc had a bunch of purges that did actually happen. But I guess they happened back in the dim, unremembered depths of, like, the 30s and 40s so that’s not real? Or something?
Do the libs know that Deng isn’t in charge anymore? I mean i guess they think Xi is genociding everyone. : p
It’s just Western justification for why Deng is as bad as Mao.
The Holocaust was so wide in scope and involved so many dead that it’s incomparable, comparing it to any other tragedy real or not is akin to Holocaust denial itself, and it’s disgusting how common it is to compare it to other things
How us Tianmen Square even comparable to a genocide? Being a liberal protestor is not a ethnic group lol (although at some might like that to be the case).
liberal protestor
They weren’t even liberal protestors. The vast, vast majority of students were there because they didn’t like the Deng government’s liberalization of the markets and wanted a return to communist economic policy. The CIA sponsored liberal democracy group was very small. And no one died in the square, all the students left more or less peacefully. The fighting was several blocks away between would be insurgents and PLA troops.
All the organizers live wealthy lives in Taiwan and the USA too. I think there is one that was stupid enough to move back to the maonland, was largely ignored, then was arrested for laundering money or something
