You’re not good because you’re afraid of the consequences of being bad. You’re good because you have empathy and know that kindness is overall better for everyone (you included) than nastiness or immorality.
That’s not why most people are good though. I’m not talking about myself I’m simply stating the reality that most people are only good because of societal standards and expectations.
Think of the old west in America. Lawless. People dueling to the death over petty insults. Or the medieval period in Europe. Or the feudal age of eastern countries. They all had rampant crime and violence due to a lack of facing real consequence.
If you remove social consequence humans become the animals they have always been.
Edit: Also your last point proves mine. It’s only easier because otherwise you’ll be ostracized or worse.
Do you think the “old west” in America was actually like a western movie? Like, have you played red dead redemption and think that’s just how every day actually was? That fucking hilarious.
Also those “social consequences” kinda prove the other guys point. You’ll be ostracised because other people have empathy and look down/ostracise those who participate in immoral behaviour because they know it’s wrong.
This, this also plays into the age-old debates about intolerance of intolerance and “free” speech. “Free” speech means that you are free to say whatever you would like, as long as you are willing to accept the natural consequences, and tolerance is one of many other social contracts we have in place.
You are welcome to lie to someone, to call them names, to tell them awful things or to just spout bullshit all day. But the flip side of that is that people are also free to say what they will, and engage with who they want, and if you are a real asshole who finds issue with everyone very few people will willingly do so with you. In other words: don’t poke the bear, and you won’t get eaten.
Edit: Also your last point proves mine. It’s only easier because otherwise you’ll be ostracized or worse.
Not at all? For example, there are many people who donate time or money to charities, and don’t talk about it at all. They do it because it feels good to help, they don’t seek validation or praise.
“Kind” and “not mean” are not the same thing. The motivations are totally different.
We know that in the anthropological record examples exist of people being cared for exist that should not have otherwise survived. So it’s fair to say that at least some of us do have the desire to care for others within us.
Community support efforts exist. There are always people who will do for others without the expectation of reward. I’ve been the beneficiary of it and the giver of it when I can.
We also have plenty of contrary examples as well. It’s easy to look at, say, the growing income inequality as an easy example of at best indifference to the suffering of others and news feeds focus on the harm we as humans do to each other.
You can make an argument for both things being true.
We would not have survived as a species if we did not learn to cooperate and there can be those who will put themselves above all others at the expense of everyone else.
Technically it’s wrong.
You’re not good because you’re afraid of the consequences of being bad. You’re good because you have empathy and know that kindness is overall better for everyone (you included) than nastiness or immorality.
That’s not why most people are good though. I’m not talking about myself I’m simply stating the reality that most people are only good because of societal standards and expectations.
Think of the old west in America. Lawless. People dueling to the death over petty insults. Or the medieval period in Europe. Or the feudal age of eastern countries. They all had rampant crime and violence due to a lack of facing real consequence.
If you remove social consequence humans become the animals they have always been.
Edit: Also your last point proves mine. It’s only easier because otherwise you’ll be ostracized or worse.
Do you think the “old west” in America was actually like a western movie? Like, have you played red dead redemption and think that’s just how every day actually was? That fucking hilarious. Also those “social consequences” kinda prove the other guys point. You’ll be ostracised because other people have empathy and look down/ostracise those who participate in immoral behaviour because they know it’s wrong.
This, this also plays into the age-old debates about intolerance of intolerance and “free” speech. “Free” speech means that you are free to say whatever you would like, as long as you are willing to accept the natural consequences, and tolerance is one of many other social contracts we have in place.
You are welcome to lie to someone, to call them names, to tell them awful things or to just spout bullshit all day. But the flip side of that is that people are also free to say what they will, and engage with who they want, and if you are a real asshole who finds issue with everyone very few people will willingly do so with you. In other words: don’t poke the bear, and you won’t get eaten.
Not at all? For example, there are many people who donate time or money to charities, and don’t talk about it at all. They do it because it feels good to help, they don’t seek validation or praise.
“Kind” and “not mean” are not the same thing. The motivations are totally different.
We know that in the anthropological record examples exist of people being cared for exist that should not have otherwise survived. So it’s fair to say that at least some of us do have the desire to care for others within us.
Community support efforts exist. There are always people who will do for others without the expectation of reward. I’ve been the beneficiary of it and the giver of it when I can.
We also have plenty of contrary examples as well. It’s easy to look at, say, the growing income inequality as an easy example of at best indifference to the suffering of others and news feeds focus on the harm we as humans do to each other.
You can make an argument for both things being true.
We would not have survived as a species if we did not learn to cooperate and there can be those who will put themselves above all others at the expense of everyone else.