I used to live in central Louisiana. When I talked to the people I used to work with, it was very clear that they are in favor of what would be considered to be socialist. The MAGA folks really can be comrades if we just reach out to them like human beings and try to communicate to them on their level without being too condescending.
The hard part will be convincing them that people they don’t like deserve basic human rights. The right wing religious propaganda has really taken hold of them in that regard.
I’m a big advocate for the idea that we need to start selling “manly socialism.”
I want to see grainy low contrast posters of a guy in wrangler jeans posed next to an F-150 with a sledgehammer over his shoulder and text that says “You’re really such a pussy that you just let some rich asshole in Redmond walk all over you? Real men unionize.”
I want to sell solar power to midwesterners with video ads of rugged manly men getting off the grid. “My daddy taught me to do everything with my own two hands. Instead of suckling on the teat of that big ol power grid, I get my own from God’s beautiful bounty.”
I want videos of church goers saying “I’m voting for public healthcare because God told me to lift the poor and the weary.”
I think there’s real legs to this. Meet people where they are.
(And before anyone starts, I have no desire to break bread with these people. They hate me and everything I am. I have no illusions about that. But for real change to happen, it takes a village; even the parts of the village you want absolutely nothing to do with. I don’t have to break bread with them to get them pulling in the right direction; I just have to help them see what’s in their best interest.)
I’d absolutely go to a place where I can hang out with dudes who also love shooting guns, eating sausages and doing yoga. And I don’t even really do any of those things.
The hard part will be convincing them that people they don’t like deserve basic human rights. The right wing religious propaganda has really taken hold of them in that regard.
remember when mandela actually became president of south africa after spending 27 years in prison, he made a speech and said something like “the boers are no longer our enemy, they are our countrymen.”
Basically, they are our enemy now, because they’ve fallen victim to the propaganda that’s been fed to them by the television they watch, the online communities they frequent, the churches they go to and the radio personalities they listen to. But if one can reach out to them, talk to them and get them to listen and hear, then it might be possible to deprogram them from those hateful stances they hold against people who are not like them.
For example, one can try to talk to them about immigration by asking why they don’t like immigration. they might respond like “the immigrants take our jobs”, which is the lie that is told to them so that they want to fight other working class people instead of focusing that fight on the people who actually are responsible for their suffering: the wealthy.
remember when mandela actually became president of south africa after spending 27 years in prison, he made a speech and said something like “the boers are no longer our enemy, they are our countrymen.”
The best way to break someone out of a partisan media death spiral is to cut the power cord to their television.
I absolutely agree that there are a host of people in a gray zone of misinformation who can be pulled back from the brink. But I’m not multi-billion dollar media mogul capable of saturating their every waking hour with counter-programming. And I’d be foolish to assert I could undo in a few short dialogues what they’ve ingested after decades.
If you look at what the Feds did with TikTok, that’s the real working strategy. Cut people off from a contrary media diet. Shut down radio stations. Starve out newspapers. De-tenure professors with unorthodox historical bias. K-Street Project any lobbyist who won’t exclusively back your people. Purge political parties of anyone sympathetic to rival views. Blacklist the Dixie Chicks and get Donahue fired.
That’s how you shape the public discourse.
Not by politely asking your 60-year-old uncle to turn down the Michael Savage Radio Hour for a minute and reconsider his white nationalist views.
the only reason to be Christian is to be in the closet with a priest
The other two were definitely musts though you would see “n-words beware” “no n-words allowed” graffiti on signs and others of that ilk. Even today you will find Swastika drawn on things around town
We have to work harder to communicate with some of these people. There’s definitely a lot of right wingers that are straight up gone(genuine fascists/neo nazis who know what they’re doing), but there’s a lot that are simply brainwashed or fear mongered. Instead of laughing at them we should be trying to bring them back to the right path.
But how do you do that? We can try to convince and provide all the evidence in the world and we still get met with “deep state” and get told almost every scientist and doctor is part of a secret pact to make us eat bugs.
To say nothing of how difficult it is to talk to people who would rather you didn’t exist.
“… reach out to them like human beings and try to communicate to them on their level…”
So which is it? Are we supposed to treat them like human beings able to have a rational, reasonable, and logical discussion, or do we communicate on their level of bigotry, hatred, threats, and violence?
How do I lower myself to a level that wholeheartedly believes that certain races are subhuman and don’t deserve rights, that females have a place and that place is subservient to men, or that homosexual people should be put to death?
I get that it’s distasteful to give anyone their due when they have hate in their heart.
That said, people are mutli-faceted. We can engage with one another on one or many axes, and GP is suggesting that we pick and choose the ones where there is common ground. The key is to be mindful that this person is not your friend, but when it comes to some specific political point, they are aligned with you. Demonstrating that this is possible and fruitful is key to fighting back against polarization and black/white thinking.
The alternative is a permanently divided political landscape where everyone and everything is deadlocked, and we argue about wedge topics forever.
Hey, I hear ya - some people really are seeing the world upside-down.
I’m not saying it’s easy nor that everyone is reachable. But what I am saying is that a lot of powerful forces have a vested interest in keeping everyone divided. Whose game are you gonna play? Yours or theirs?
if we just reach out to them like human beings and try to communicate to them
That’s going to be hard while they are pushing you into a mass grave.
You’re not wrong - but you’re ignoring the fact that this only applies to a certain amount of them. Unfortunately, there is also a portion of them that can only be reached through the use of force.
The MAGA folks really can be comrades if we just reach out to them like human beings and try to communicate to them on their level without being too condescending.
I used to live in central Louisiana. When I talked to the people I used to work with, it was very clear that they are in favor of what would be considered to be socialist. The MAGA folks really can be comrades if we just reach out to them like human beings and try to communicate to them on their level without being too condescending.
The hard part will be convincing them that people they don’t like deserve basic human rights. The right wing religious propaganda has really taken hold of them in that regard.
I’m a big advocate for the idea that we need to start selling “manly socialism.”
I want to see grainy low contrast posters of a guy in wrangler jeans posed next to an F-150 with a sledgehammer over his shoulder and text that says “You’re really such a pussy that you just let some rich asshole in Redmond walk all over you? Real men unionize.”
I want to sell solar power to midwesterners with video ads of rugged manly men getting off the grid. “My daddy taught me to do everything with my own two hands. Instead of suckling on the teat of that big ol power grid, I get my own from God’s beautiful bounty.”
I want videos of church goers saying “I’m voting for public healthcare because God told me to lift the poor and the weary.”
I think there’s real legs to this. Meet people where they are.
(And before anyone starts, I have no desire to break bread with these people. They hate me and everything I am. I have no illusions about that. But for real change to happen, it takes a village; even the parts of the village you want absolutely nothing to do with. I don’t have to break bread with them to get them pulling in the right direction; I just have to help them see what’s in their best interest.)
Reminds me of an old song “Union Maid” telling women they want a union man because “Married life ain’t hard when you got a union card.”
This is great! My husband has been suggesting gun sausage yoga where real men can be men, while also getting their stretches in…
I’d absolutely go to a place where I can hang out with dudes who also love shooting guns, eating sausages and doing yoga. And I don’t even really do any of those things.
Just be straight, Christian, and white.
remember when mandela actually became president of south africa after spending 27 years in prison, he made a speech and said something like “the boers are no longer our enemy, they are our countrymen.” Basically, they are our enemy now, because they’ve fallen victim to the propaganda that’s been fed to them by the television they watch, the online communities they frequent, the churches they go to and the radio personalities they listen to. But if one can reach out to them, talk to them and get them to listen and hear, then it might be possible to deprogram them from those hateful stances they hold against people who are not like them.
For example, one can try to talk to them about immigration by asking why they don’t like immigration. they might respond like “the immigrants take our jobs”, which is the lie that is told to them so that they want to fight other working class people instead of focusing that fight on the people who actually are responsible for their suffering: the wealthy.
And then what happened?
Facts Don’t Change Minds – Social Networks, Group Dialogue, and Stories Do
The best way to break someone out of a partisan media death spiral is to cut the power cord to their television.
I absolutely agree that there are a host of people in a gray zone of misinformation who can be pulled back from the brink. But I’m not multi-billion dollar media mogul capable of saturating their every waking hour with counter-programming. And I’d be foolish to assert I could undo in a few short dialogues what they’ve ingested after decades.
If you look at what the Feds did with TikTok, that’s the real working strategy. Cut people off from a contrary media diet. Shut down radio stations. Starve out newspapers. De-tenure professors with unorthodox historical bias. K-Street Project any lobbyist who won’t exclusively back your people. Purge political parties of anyone sympathetic to rival views. Blacklist the Dixie Chicks and get Donahue fired.
That’s how you shape the public discourse.
Not by politely asking your 60-year-old uncle to turn down the Michael Savage Radio Hour for a minute and reconsider his white nationalist views.
South African here… a disturbingly large proportion of the “boers” don’t see it that way - and it’s been more than thirty years.
When I was a lad we used to say
The other two were definitely musts though you would see “n-words beware” “no n-words allowed” graffiti on signs and others of that ilk. Even today you will find Swastika drawn on things around town
Been saying this for a while.
We have to work harder to communicate with some of these people. There’s definitely a lot of right wingers that are straight up gone(genuine fascists/neo nazis who know what they’re doing), but there’s a lot that are simply brainwashed or fear mongered. Instead of laughing at them we should be trying to bring them back to the right path.
But how do you do that? We can try to convince and provide all the evidence in the world and we still get met with “deep state” and get told almost every scientist and doctor is part of a secret pact to make us eat bugs.
To say nothing of how difficult it is to talk to people who would rather you didn’t exist.
“… reach out to them like human beings and try to communicate to them on their level…”
So which is it? Are we supposed to treat them like human beings able to have a rational, reasonable, and logical discussion, or do we communicate on their level of bigotry, hatred, threats, and violence? How do I lower myself to a level that wholeheartedly believes that certain races are subhuman and don’t deserve rights, that females have a place and that place is subservient to men, or that homosexual people should be put to death?
I get that it’s distasteful to give anyone their due when they have hate in their heart.
That said, people are mutli-faceted. We can engage with one another on one or many axes, and GP is suggesting that we pick and choose the ones where there is common ground. The key is to be mindful that this person is not your friend, but when it comes to some specific political point, they are aligned with you. Demonstrating that this is possible and fruitful is key to fighting back against polarization and black/white thinking.
The alternative is a permanently divided political landscape where everyone and everything is deadlocked, and we argue about wedge topics forever.
I don’t know if any of that is possible when “alternative facts” are treated as reality and their guiding force is some rando on 4chan.
Hey, I hear ya - some people really are seeing the world upside-down.
I’m not saying it’s easy nor that everyone is reachable. But what I am saying is that a lot of powerful forces have a vested interest in keeping everyone divided. Whose game are you gonna play? Yours or theirs?
Your sense of humor and comedy is pretty good!
“The MAGA folks really could be comrades if they weren’t prioritizing cishet white Christian supremacist hierarchy over a functioning society.”
Yeah I agree but that’s kindof a fundamental difference of opinion that reaching out hasn’t done much to change.
That’s going to be hard while they are pushing you into a mass grave.
You’re not wrong - but you’re ignoring the fact that this only applies to a certain amount of them. Unfortunately, there is also a portion of them that can only be reached through the use of force.
Oh my sweet summer child