What they said was true. I understand that people who are committed to voting in this next election are getting abuse from people who are committed to not voting, who seem to either be under the influence of bad actors or are bad actors themselves. If you’ve received this kind of treatment then I can understand why you might be sensitive to those arguments, to the extent that certain arguments are almost always followed up by an appeal as to why voting is pointless. So arguments that claim that both political parties are the same, so don’t vote for either, is an example of this kind of hopelessness, often dressed up like something revolutionary.
Those types of arguments are successful because they sort people into opposing camps, who can only see their enemy at the expense of seeing the truth. Unified in their commitment to dehumanize and mischaracterize the other, and protect the political legitimacy of their camp. This leads to a tendency to delegitimize not only the arguments of the other, but any supporting arguments that they might use. The problem with this is that even if the other camp is full of bad actors who cynically lie to, for example, alter the outcome of an election, the best way to make their lies convincing is to use supporting arguments that are true, or partially true, or based in some truth. While making their lies sound convincing, it has the added benefit (for them) of making their opponents reject these apparent truths; which skews the effectiveness of their opponents own arguments while also making them appear to be liars or delusional themselves, which bad actors will use to illustrate why their own camp is the better one. And this goes back and forth, both sides using the same strategies to the same effect: a tenuous if not completely divorced relationship to truth and the experience of regular uncommitted parties who, upon witnessing this, is further alienated from the discourse, as the discourse has moved away from their own experiences of the real world. In this case, it likely has the effect of disenfranchising voters which is the aim of those bad actors in the first place. While a small group of passionate defenders of voting become more entrenched in their campist positions, they end up participating in and reproducing the conditions of disenfranchisement that our enemies want. We have to fight like hell not to get caught in this trap.
The two major political parties represent the monied interests of the very rich, which has differing ideas about how best to run the country. These groups can be largely defined as the conservative nationalist industrial class and the liberal international financial class. while their interests differ from each other, they represent one class of owner capitalists that rules over the workers, the marginally employed, the poor, and the destitute (which together makes up the working class). At any time, while they squabble with each other, historically they are united in their opposition to giving or sharing wealth or power to the working working class. This doesn’t mean “don’t vote.” It means vote for the one that allows us to continue to organize ourselves against the ruling classes by forming unions to protect the value of our work, and participating in local politics, community work, and political struggle and educate ourselves and each other as a protective measure against the propagandistic media which is owned by members of the above ruling classes. I will vote and I will advocate that others should as well, but I’ll also advocate turning off cable news, silencing notifications on our phones and getting involved in community work and political organizing. Both can be true, that we live in a class society and that the political outcomes from elections can have drastic or disastrous consequences.
You can vote, but at this point, it’s objectively clear that (at least at the federal level) your vote is meaningless
Meaningless how? By what standard? That you didn’t get everything you wanted and some people got things they wanted that you object to? That the system itself will not substantially change in your lifetime?
The truth is you vote very much does matter at the federal level. It’s literally the difference between life and death for women, trangender people, brown people… there is so much that a Democratic administration prevents and promotes that is meaningful to many in substantive… even existential ways, ever day.
It’s literally the difference between life and death for women, trangender people, brown people…
Your Democratic administration betrayed you.
Biden, in his first SOTU, mocked you by saying: “Don’t defund the police. Fund them.” That’s not what he promised to marginalized communities. But, he’s always been an authoritarian. Remember the 94 crime bill?
Women, they betrayed by learning about Roe repeal and doing nothing to stop it other than fundraising. They made $80 million, by the way.) Idaho got away with literally criminalizing abortion, which means 2/3 of the states will follow suit in the next year.
As for transgendered people, the Federal Government has done so little to protect them they’re fleeing red states. I saw it myself when a member of my roller derby league left Missouri for Oregon.
So… yeah, I disagree. No matter who we elect at the Federal level, we get fascism.
Your vote still matters some at the local level, depending on where you live, but in a few years it won’t, because Donald Trump is probably going to be reelected, and that will validate everything he’s ever done.
This is such nonsense. Did I get everything I wanted out of any administration? No. Because surprise surprise, I’m not the only person in the country with a vote and with priorities. Your answer to not getting things you want to is to not vote at all so you will get EVEN LESS?
learning about Roe repeal and doing nothing to stop it
You are dramatically ill-informed and your logic is flawed. We lost Roe V. Wade because we lost the Supreme Court. So you want another Trump administration to solidify the conservative majority to make sure it gets worse? This administration has done a lot to protect reproductive rights. Do I want more? Of course, but I’m not going to… I’ve been waiting all day to say this… throw the baby out with the bath water because the Dems couldn’t do everything. You want to punish them by helping Republicans win the white house? That makes sense to you?
As for transgendered people, the Federal Government
The federal government doesn’t have jurisdiction over state law. All they can do, which it turns out is quite a bit is use federal agencies and regulations to put in place what protections they can. And this administration has done more than any other, for which I am personally grateful.
No matter who we elect at the Federal level, we get fascism.
This is just an incredibly immature statement to make. We do not have fascism. But there’s a decent chance we will under Trump.
but in a few years it won’t, because Donald Trump is probably going to be reelected
Right, so let’s bitch and moan about how the Dems aren’t doing a good enough job so we can make sure Trump DOES get elected.
Better not vote then!
Edit: SARCASM ALERT!!!1
What they said was true. I understand that people who are committed to voting in this next election are getting abuse from people who are committed to not voting, who seem to either be under the influence of bad actors or are bad actors themselves. If you’ve received this kind of treatment then I can understand why you might be sensitive to those arguments, to the extent that certain arguments are almost always followed up by an appeal as to why voting is pointless. So arguments that claim that both political parties are the same, so don’t vote for either, is an example of this kind of hopelessness, often dressed up like something revolutionary.
Those types of arguments are successful because they sort people into opposing camps, who can only see their enemy at the expense of seeing the truth. Unified in their commitment to dehumanize and mischaracterize the other, and protect the political legitimacy of their camp. This leads to a tendency to delegitimize not only the arguments of the other, but any supporting arguments that they might use. The problem with this is that even if the other camp is full of bad actors who cynically lie to, for example, alter the outcome of an election, the best way to make their lies convincing is to use supporting arguments that are true, or partially true, or based in some truth. While making their lies sound convincing, it has the added benefit (for them) of making their opponents reject these apparent truths; which skews the effectiveness of their opponents own arguments while also making them appear to be liars or delusional themselves, which bad actors will use to illustrate why their own camp is the better one. And this goes back and forth, both sides using the same strategies to the same effect: a tenuous if not completely divorced relationship to truth and the experience of regular uncommitted parties who, upon witnessing this, is further alienated from the discourse, as the discourse has moved away from their own experiences of the real world. In this case, it likely has the effect of disenfranchising voters which is the aim of those bad actors in the first place. While a small group of passionate defenders of voting become more entrenched in their campist positions, they end up participating in and reproducing the conditions of disenfranchisement that our enemies want. We have to fight like hell not to get caught in this trap.
The two major political parties represent the monied interests of the very rich, which has differing ideas about how best to run the country. These groups can be largely defined as the conservative nationalist industrial class and the liberal international financial class. while their interests differ from each other, they represent one class of owner capitalists that rules over the workers, the marginally employed, the poor, and the destitute (which together makes up the working class). At any time, while they squabble with each other, historically they are united in their opposition to giving or sharing wealth or power to the working working class. This doesn’t mean “don’t vote.” It means vote for the one that allows us to continue to organize ourselves against the ruling classes by forming unions to protect the value of our work, and participating in local politics, community work, and political struggle and educate ourselves and each other as a protective measure against the propagandistic media which is owned by members of the above ruling classes. I will vote and I will advocate that others should as well, but I’ll also advocate turning off cable news, silencing notifications on our phones and getting involved in community work and political organizing. Both can be true, that we live in a class society and that the political outcomes from elections can have drastic or disastrous consequences.
I agree with pretty much… if not everything… you say.
I should be more careful to add “/s” after comments like mine above.
Ope, you got me to earnest/effort post. Well played
I appreciate your effort. It’s super well thought out and well written. Our AI overlords thank you for your contribution, as do I.
You can vote, but at this point, it’s objectively clear that (at least at the federal level) your vote is meaningless.
Meaningless how? By what standard? That you didn’t get everything you wanted and some people got things they wanted that you object to? That the system itself will not substantially change in your lifetime?
The truth is you vote very much does matter at the federal level. It’s literally the difference between life and death for women, trangender people, brown people… there is so much that a Democratic administration prevents and promotes that is meaningful to many in substantive… even existential ways, ever day.
Your Democratic administration betrayed you.
Biden, in his first SOTU, mocked you by saying: “Don’t defund the police. Fund them.” That’s not what he promised to marginalized communities. But, he’s always been an authoritarian. Remember the 94 crime bill?
Women, they betrayed by learning about Roe repeal and doing nothing to stop it other than fundraising. They made $80 million, by the way.) Idaho got away with literally criminalizing abortion, which means 2/3 of the states will follow suit in the next year.
As for transgendered people, the Federal Government has done so little to protect them they’re fleeing red states. I saw it myself when a member of my roller derby league left Missouri for Oregon.
So… yeah, I disagree. No matter who we elect at the Federal level, we get fascism.
Your vote still matters some at the local level, depending on where you live, but in a few years it won’t, because Donald Trump is probably going to be reelected, and that will validate everything he’s ever done.
This is such nonsense. Did I get everything I wanted out of any administration? No. Because surprise surprise, I’m not the only person in the country with a vote and with priorities. Your answer to not getting things you want to is to not vote at all so you will get EVEN LESS?
You are dramatically ill-informed and your logic is flawed. We lost Roe V. Wade because we lost the Supreme Court. So you want another Trump administration to solidify the conservative majority to make sure it gets worse? This administration has done a lot to protect reproductive rights. Do I want more? Of course, but I’m not going to… I’ve been waiting all day to say this… throw the baby out with the bath water because the Dems couldn’t do everything. You want to punish them by helping Republicans win the white house? That makes sense to you?
The Dems did a great deal to try to stem the tide here, despite not having a majority in the house. Here’s just one of many articles discussing that: https://19thnews.org/2023/06/democrats-house-senate-abortion-dobbs/
The federal government doesn’t have jurisdiction over state law. All they can do, which it turns out is quite a bit is use federal agencies and regulations to put in place what protections they can. And this administration has done more than any other, for which I am personally grateful.
This is just an incredibly immature statement to make. We do not have fascism. But there’s a decent chance we will under Trump.
Right, so let’s bitch and moan about how the Dems aren’t doing a good enough job so we can make sure Trump DOES get elected.
Honestly.