Ledditors griefing over internet “censorship” and muh freeze peach principles that were apparently violated when effective, direct measures were used to combat fascism.
I don’t think we should ever celebrate people being deplatformed…If the content is illegal pursue legal means to punish the posters…But let’s say they win, and they get the domain blocked everywhere. They’ll just launch a new domain, just like all the pirate streaming sites do.
Are you implying you shouldn’t try to do anything because the fascists will (deterministically) win? Hence why the people trying to shut them down went straight to the ISPs because they know they can win the ISPs over on moral grounds?
[…] you have to decide if the internet is a human right or not. If it is, it must be for everyone, or it is for no one. As soon as we make exceptions to basic rights, those rights get eroded for everyone. Because people in power will bend the exceptions to political expediency.
Fascists don’t deserve basic rights.
Fascists don’t deserve basic rights.
correct
More and more people are saying this! But seriously, in the gulag you’ll get human rights but certainly not a loaded machine gun like unrestricted internet access to stalk, bully, and harass people to self-harm.
but certainly not a loaded machine gun
oh, they’ll get a loaded machine gun
just not the end of it they’re expecting
Fascists deserve as many human rights as they believe others should have
So yes. None 😊
[…] you have to decide if the internet is a human right or not. If it is, it must be for everyone, or it is for no one.
It’s a human right.
Fascists aren’t human.
😘
Not getting harassed by internet fascists should be a human right too, but the only ‘rights’ they care about are the ones that expand their bourgeois consumerism.
Chuds when people are doxxed, stalked, and sent death threats
Chuds when they can’t reply “peepeepoopoo” to their president on the internet
The obvious answer here is to doxx, stalk, and send death threats to chuds.
No excuses for the terror
it must be for everyone, or it is for no one
The nazis must be let into the restaurant, or else no one should ever be seated
They can still… use the rest of the internet… after the site is taken down…?
Unfortunately.
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Websites should have human rights, right?
These people don’t understand how rights work - or rather, they have the intentionally stunted understanding of rights fed to them by American political theory.
KF’s right to exist as a website conflicts with many other peoples’ right not to be stalked, harassed, etc. If, let’s say, you went to public park and catcalled every woman there, the state would be right to kick you out and ban you from the park. Same principle.
KF as an institution was literally created for the purpose harassing someone. This is before getting into how they’re fash and shit like that - even under liberal rules of engagement they should have been shut down a long time ago.
Legality is a very stupid and bad metric for what sites and communities should be combated. Piracy is illegal, fascism is legal. Laws are threats from the dominant socioeconomic group and so on.
Also, who’s version of legality? I very much doubt Mr “Let the law handle the Nazis” is going to be happy if Iran or Saudi Arabia tried to take down porn sites due to their local laws.
Of course, that’s a rhetorical question. Whenever someone talks like this they always mean American/Western laws, which they assume should apply universally.
Agreed.
Why do orgs like the EFF and ACLU value moral victory over material victory?
Because moral victory is good for the bourgeois state, while material victory is not
They’re libs
Capitalist ideology in general, Žižek maintains, consists precisely in the overvaluing of belief – in the sense of inner subjective attitude – at the expense of the beliefs we exhibit and externalize in our behavior. So long as we believe (in our hearts) that capitalism is bad, we are free to continue to participate in capitalist exchange.
- Capitalist Realism chapter 2
I see that a lot with China Man Bad takes, they decry the evil of the CPC, pick one random Chinese corporation they swear off (Tencent is a popular one), and then act like they’ve taken a principled stand while continuing to buy mountains of plastic shit that’s made in China.
Because moral victories don’t cost as much to the ruling class.
They are part of the non-profit industrial complex. They make money by appealing to hardship and selling gains, not by directly assaulting systems of oppression. If they did, they would be quickly outlawed, perhaps branded a terrorist organization. They also ensure their own power and relevance through integration with that oppressive system and its centers of power. The EFF makes most of its money from “charitable organizations”, i.e. rich people’s kids’ orgs that function as cheap PR due to tax write-offs, i.e. mouthpieces of the bourgeoisie. The ACLU is a libertarian org in bed with all kinds of corporate goons, again via “charitable organizations”. It’s actually a pretty great example of the limits of reformism and the way that radical movements are coopted into snd subsumed by capital, as it began as something much cooler.
They’ll just launch a new domain, just like all the pirate streaming sites do.
copyrighted material and documenting people’s whereabouts and goings on are exactly the same thing actually
context don’t real, everything is a frictionless, spherical concept in a vacuum
and that’s why I cyberstalk kids
Turns out the “natural rights” framework is liberal bullshit and legal rights, while extremely useful, must be embraced as a fallible human construction that, on some level of application, must be delineated arbitrarily.
Nonsense built upon stilts
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In what sense is torturing a person the same thing as platforming harassment on a website? >.>
It really seems like you’re abstracting things to the extreme in order to use polemic language and avoid talking about the situation.
The thing about Kiwifarms is that it acts a lot more like Reddit (as a whole) than your typical forum. People don’t come to Kiwifarms because they want to be a part of the Kiwifarms community – they come to Kiwifarms because they obsess about some individual or some other community that they want to dunk on or harass. Each thread therefore has to be viewed more akin to a subreddit with its own separate userbase than your typical forum thread.
The best example for this are their two competing Ukraine war threads, one pro-Russia, the other pro-Ukraine, each with roughly the same number of posts yet representing two completely different, irreconcilable worldviews.
This property is what I think makes Kiwifarms so extremely resilient. Even if they have to move to the darknet, where other sites would normally not survive, they still have the necessary draw to gain new users from mere name recognition alone.
Because when you’re obsessed about something or someone, is the small hurdle of installing torbrowser and looking up an onion link really going to stop you?
Freedom of speech (and comparable rights) applies under the assumption that no concerns should go unheard to ensure that everyone’s needs are considered when making decisions so the best outcome can be achieved for everyone.
Kiwifarms exists to hurt people. People use it to hurt others. It does not need defending.
I don’t think we should ever celebrate people being deplatformed
Correct. We should debate them in the marketplace of ideas
So Keffals didn’t get kiwifarms shutdown after all, huh?
it was down for like a week at best
Sucks, wish I went down permanently.
I respected her fight but in the end it just shows how pathetic the state of human rights is in the West. I would assume that in a normal society, those who run a website like kiwifarms would be arrested on the grounds of causing mental and physical harm to innocent human beings.
What Keffals could only do was pressure various corporations that lie in the junctions between kiwifarms servers and the user. Her movement would pressure the private DNS provider, the private VPS host and Cloudflare inc. to stop having kiwifarms as customers. I think Cloudflare dropped them but I am not sure what things are like now.
This is not an indictment of Keffals and her efforts but rather of the justice systems of the developed world. FBI will hunt you down to the innermost circles of hell if you are sharing pirated books (b-ok.cc) or are downloading academic papers like Swartz was but if you are running a fascist cesspool you are given a pass probably because they recruit or entrap from there.
She should be indicted for other things, she’s kind of a shit human being
Fr! Trans pick me, ableist, Liberal shill to name a few
The endless battle to banish the world’s most notorious stalker site - Lemmy.world
Damn Lemmy, I didn’t know you guys were into stalking. But… uhhh… use those powers for good, I guess?
Not sure why they’re involved, but uncritical support to the Economic Freedom Fighters against the internet fascists
I hate KF and the userbase more than virtually anything else. Pig farm septic bog ass site.
as long as the US government wouldn’t literally put someone in a cage for it, you are morally obligated to provide anyone who asks with the means to do whatever they want, with zero discretion allowed on your part. because it’s speech.
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