I’m all for banning toxic players and cheaters, but the fact that they make you install a rootkit on your system to enable this is too much.
You have the option not to play the game though. It is not like they force anyone with a gun to install this rootkit.
If someone doesn’t know what a rootkit is or why it’s bad, then they can’t give informed consent to it. It’s not a free choice for 90% of players.
I didn’t downvote you, but you pretty much are repeating what OP said.
“I won’t play this game!”
“Well, nobody is forcing you.”
Yep, that’s pretty much the same thing.
It’s ok, downvote means nothing. even on Reddit.
Sometimes people don’t understand that the fact Valorant (or other F2P) is a free game doesn’t mean they’re entitled to whine and bitch non stop.
That’s not how things work at all. Just because something’s free means you can’t criticize it? Where is that written?
Yea, beggar cannot choose. Take it or leave it. Free market will dictate it. People don’t like this harrasment approach? Valorant will die by itself.
So many entitled brats, you cant even offer suggestions. Just criticism for the sake of it.
“Choosing beggars” is someone who wants more or better than what they were offered. Criticizing the offering for flaws and problems is not.
IOW - I get a free chicken sandwich. I demand better toppings, a free drink and chips on the side. There’s a roast beef available, how come I didn’t get that? That’s a choosing beggar.
The chicken sandwich is undercooked, the bread is dry. That’s what’s happening here. Criticism.
I mean… I don’t disagree with your original point (within reason) but the guy complaining about the free chicken sandwich kinda sucks too? Idk about yall but I would never say that to someone who gave me free food. Think it’s just a rough metaphor for this situation, where Valorant is still trying to make money from in game purchases.
So if someone gave you a free sandwich but then also offered the exclusive place to sell mayonnaise, seasonings, and pickles, you’re fairly entitled to say “eh, this base product is kinda lacking and doesn’t entice me to come here”.
Complaining about free chicken sandwich… What a moron.
Or you could see it as it is. A community that’s passionate about the game, and games in general, giving feedback to the developer about why their game might die so that this game or future games might be more consumer friendly. Only someone who is overly critical/cynical assumes any and every feedback is whining and complaining.
This one is whining. No alternative, just complaining.
He was just sharing his opinion, I think he understands that Riot won’t/shouldn’t care.
I find it to be a pretty tired talking point. Especially on this thread where it has nothing to do with technical aspects of Valorant at all, it still needs to be interjected for some reason. Anyone on this forum already knows about riot anti cheating software, it’s just beating a dead horse now.
I just learned about it from this post. Your perspective isnt the only one, not sure why shut down the conversation.
Dont have to play it? You didnt have to reply to their post either.
It’s relevant because the article acts like strictness is a unimodal thing. Riot decides how far they want to push it and some people will fall on one side and believe chat is overly sanitized while others will fall on the opposite side and believe that chat is overly toxic.
This makes it sound like the only reason someone could take issue with Riot being zealous with their policing is because that person wants to see these toxic behaviors in their game. The article quickly mentions hardware bans like they are magic, even though something like harder to spoof hardware is one of the reasons Riot would give for requiring invasive software.
And similar to how I won’t accept a game requiring such invasive measures I also won’t accept an article glossing over these things. Just like there are many players who see no problem with toxic behavior there are also many players who don’t see any problem with Riot’s measures or are simply uninformed, and the article should be more informative.
Is it your opinion that free things can’t be criticized? I dont understand the position, especially these days when free often comes with conditions. Not sure if true free exists.
What conditions? Please tell.
You download, you play, for free.
Uh, did you forget the rootkit?
Dont install. You see, easy? Too hard for you?
I dont consider something free if I am paying for it with my data.
Lol the bullshit as usual. You go to internet, your data is out already
Nobody is forced with a gun to play a game with a toxic community either, does that mean it’s not worth complaining about? Perhaps the article should mention the supposed tradeoffs required to police such a community. I say supposed because I’ve played far less toxic games than Vallorant and League that don’t require such invasive software. Perhaps Riot should do some introspection and ask why the games they make foster such bad behavior instead of harming nontoxic players with their policing methods.
Toxicity is not only in riot games. Broaden your view a bit, perhaps.
You’re kinda being toxic right now by purposefully misconstruing what I said so you can hit me with a cheap comeback.
It is not.
“People are too sensitive today” types are deliberately missing the point. Online is pretty much the only place where you can get away with spouting slurs or psycho shit. You wouldn’t do it in public or get away with most of it in public.
More to the point it’s just tiring having these types come into a lobby. They generally don’t (or can’t) play properly or fuck around until someone calls them out. They then start on that person or spamming the N word.
More often than not it feels like they try to frame it as “oh ho, people can’t handle my casual use of slurs, snowflakes”. When more likely is if you’re talking and behaving like that generally it means you’re obnoxious and disruptive to the game.
Fuck those people. Still not worth getting infected by a rootkit.
I don’t buy games that run Kernel level software either generally but the two issues are tangentially related. This seems like a problem yesteryears algorithms plus monitoring staff could have solved. The problem is the latter cost money and doesn’t generate profit. LLM/ML makes this feasible again I suspect.
being forced to infect yourself with a rootkit*
Having witnessed teenage boys moaning into a microphone for an entire 25-minute match because my friend (a woman) spoke twice, I would say that it has nothing to do with growing thick skin.
My friend has thick skin. They heard it, muted everyone, calmly asked me to be the middleman for important callouts, and we played out the match. That is just normal there, unfortunately.
spouting slurs or psycho shit
Psycho is a slur.
I’ll take your word for it since I’m using as a shortened form of psychopathic in the literal sense, which is wrong anyway since I mean sociopath.
The article has literally zero info about what they are actually going to do. It’s just people going “this is bad and these people are the worst, we do not want them here”.
Ok? So what are you gonna do about it?
All it does is mention that “tech that can be a game-changer sometimes takes a long time” and I’m guessing that’s referring to Riot’s plans to use AI to mass-surveill all voice chats to detect harassment.
I will say their report software is very good and usually gets results within half an hour.
I’ve played in both valorant and csgo communities and after a year or so of valorant I came back to csgo. Maybe in some regions of the world or in lower ranks things may be worse but on csgo I felt pretty welcome everywhere. Sure we would talk shit and curse and maybe some random asshole griefer would ruin the game but I never liked valorant too much. I guess you kinda have to experience it to understand.
Edit: also, valorant is basically rootkit and I’m not running that on my computer, and couldn’t if I wanted to (I use arch btw)
It’s so interesting that there are comments about how people can mute/block people if they get harassed, but nothing about the people doing the actual unhinged harassment. It seems personal responsibility only should be for the victims of harassment…
On the topic itself, I actually know someone who works at Riot that is working on their “player management” tools, and the amount of data they have driving these is fascinating. The datasets they have are global, and aside from Vanguard, apparently there are certain toxicity trends that are so niche (in the Chinese servers, for example), you have to tune for the other server data sets for it (they weren’t really clear on how this works).
I really wish I could see what the backend of this tech is like, very few games have 10+ years of player and esports data to train their LLM/AI models.
Probably an amazing amount of data from people with open mics, little do their families know they are being recorded and saved to riots servers. Just spooky in all honesty. Tbh I see these people just not talking in the game themselves and just moving into discord. You get rid of toxicity but also encourage people to just not bother communicating at all.
Yeah, can’t have people just growning thicker skins … they should have to buy them via micro transaction!
Lots of people in the comments self-reporting their habits in games with voice chat… yikes…
No one should play Valorant or any Riot game in the first place
Halo 2 never had a mute function and people survived.
That’s just survivor bias. Gaming spaces are better when harassment is punished.
Do you really want the standard of life to be a halo 2 lobby? Halo 2 lobbies were full of bigotry of all types. We can and do, do better.
People are too sensitive nowadays, but some people also take things too far with their insults
Did you even listen to what was said? Insults are one thing but alluding to rape and then saying it’s not rape if the rapist enjoys it. Is on a whole different level of depravity.
I didn’t listen to the clip, no
But yeah, that person needs serious help if that’s what they said
Yes but that isn’t the only thing they are going to go after.
Did you even read what they wrote? “Some people go too far with their insults.” What you described is literally going too far.
What was said wasn’t an insult. “Your momma…” are jokes, “you suck do bad…” are insults. Tbagging a dead body is an insult.
Implying you are going to rape someone and then saying it’s not rape because you would enjoy it isn’t a typical “insult”.
So yeah i read what they said. It just didn’t really apply to the situation.
It may not be a typical insult, but it is still insulting. And if someone says that as an insult, that is going too far.
No it is not. “I’m going to kick you” isn’t an insult, it’s a threat. Someone could try to make the case that it’s a “joke” but it isn’t an insult.
In this video, you hear her say she’s not going to mute him for the content. She has the tools to solve the problem. But she chose not to use them.
EDIT Also she deleted the full clip and video from her Twitch. Nothing funny going on here.
That doesn’t solve the problem.
“When you to tell someone to ‘just mute comms’ to avoid harassment, you are essentially putting the harassed person in a position to not communicate,” said Donlon. “To compromise how they want to play the game to accommodate you.”
“Competitive games need to have room for banter. We believe this, and I do understand the fear that we will sanitise gaming by ‘over-addressing’ these issues,” Donlon continued. “We have no interest in doing that. But we do believe that a person should not have to be in a position to ‘grow a thicker skin’ or whatever other unhelpful suggestions have been thrown out there just to avoid threats of violence or literal hate-speech.”
It seems all you are trying to accomplish in this thread is to let assholes continue to ruin the experience for others by forcing the victims into silence. No, ban the assholes instead. Easy solution.
People have the tools to solve the problem, use them.
The “tool” you want people to use is the equivalent of sticking fingers in your ears and going “la la la la la la la”. Which, you know, is pretty widely recognized as a shitty tool.
I think a lot of people on hearing this sort of thing once or twice will shut off the game and never play again. To me it seems like a similar kind of situation to a website like a Lemmy instance that removes all the csam spam that gets posted, but not fast enough that most people never see it. In that situation you can’t tell users “just report and block”, there is still a big problem and there is no one that can take responsibility for it other than the people operating the service.
I played thousands of games of Dota 2, and in that time I heard a woman speak probably like 5 times total, which honestly is very understandable on their part, but still unfortunate. Would be nice to play online games that are not de-facto filtering out everyone who isn’t willing to tolerate being periodically subjected to verbal abuse, especially when it’s extreme forms of verbal abuse.
Just hit the mute button like it’s not hard. I’ve pressed the mute button a few times it’s really not a big deal. You hit mute then hit report. After a few people do that they get banned.
Would be nice to play online games that are not de-facto filtering out everyone who isn’t willing to tolerate being periodically subjected to verbal abuse, especially when it’s extreme forms of verbal abuse.
True snowflake stuff. You don’t live in a perfect fking utopia. Occasionally someone will make fun of you lmfao.
This doesn’t really address what I’m talking about. I can personally handle people saying mean things to me (though can’t say anyone in an online game ever threatened to rape me), but what I have a problem with is people I might like to interact with being driven out and the space becoming increasingly concentrated with people I don’t like very much.
Nah, the proper tool is to ban people like you.
Her saying she isn’t going to mute him doesn’t give him the go ahead to say the things he did.
Could this be a publicity stunt? Sure. Does any of this make what he said ok? No
This is a publicity stunt. All she had to do is to mute him. But she didn’t and made a tweet about it. Now she haves gaming journalists writing articles about her.
EDIT She could have talked to Riot Games support without making the tweet. But she didn’t.
How do you know? Getting publicity for this isn’t a bad thing, no matter how you try to make it out to be. Sit down.
Why shouldn’t she have tweeted? Seems she is getting positive results! Good for her.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Can people mute and block other players in the game? If so, just use the tools you have.
Can people play a game with out spewing hateful garbage?
This isn’t just about hateful garbage this is starting to just be about being rude, pushy, or even speaking foreign languages. Toxicity covers a whole range of communication.
The problem is you know you have to mute them/ block them after they say/ do something bad to you. When you block them it may stop them from doing that to you but it doesn’t stop them from doing it to others on the game. Making it a bad experience for others.
Mute/personal blocks do not fix the root problem which is the toxic players being toxic in the game.
Ideally, enough mutes/blocks and that person would get a manual review.
I don’t like automated bans because they often have false positives.
I 100% agree with enough mutes/blocks leading to a manual thing.
Automated bans are not great but they have a time and place. Theoretically they are getting better.
My point is something should be done about these things. I don’t have the answers, but something needs to be done.
Automated bans just lead to harassment and false positives. There should only be manual review on human-operated accounts.
I didn’t say automated bands based on reports. Yeah those lead to harassment and abuse. Obviously not a good case for automation.
But injecting code into the game with a 3rd party client could be automated if detected. That’s what i meant by automated bans.
Then just block everyone before they do something bad to you. Problem solved.
If you’re driving down the road and someone throws shit in your face from the sidewalk can you just not roll up the window? If so, just use the tools that you have.
