Just a public service announcement.

  • AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
    31·
    4 years ago

    It’s insane how the greater concept of “antifa” is automatically associated with violence when it literally stands for “anti fascism”.

    I don’t condone violence on either side, but I say be against the concept of fascism or GTFO of this forum.

    • muesli@lemmy.ml
      4·
      4 years ago

      I don’t understand how being anti-racist can possibly be controversial in any way… and if it is for you, then I’m not sure what that says about you.

      • cipherpunk@lemmy.ml
        11·
        4 years ago

        I can’t see which post you’re replying to. These thread lines are an optical illusion.

        Antifa’s method of activism is controversial

        While there is nothing controversial about being anti-racist, Antifa is not simply anti-racist. It’s the style of activism that’s controversial. From wikipedia:

        Antifa is an anti-fascist political movement in the United States[2][3][4][5] comprising a diverse[6][7] array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both non-violent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[8][9][10][11] Antifa political activists engage in protest tactics such as digital activism and militancy,[11][12] sometimes involving property damage, physical violence and harassment, against fascists, racists and the far-right

        Petitioning for policy reform is relatively non-controversial. But that’s not Antifa. Obviously some of the more extreme actions (e.g. violence and property destruction) are controversial - and Antifa is open to them.

        Antifa’s ideology is controversial

        Components of Antifa ideology:

        • anti-racism (non-controversial of course)
        • anti-capitalism (obviously controversial and IMO unpopular)
        • anarchy (obviously controversial and IMO unpopular)

        I can’t even get my head around how it’s possible to be both anti-capitalist and anarchist at the same time. Anarchy is also favored by the extreme right, and obviously anarchy is a recipe for pure uncontrolled capitalism – most oppressive form of capitalism. What am I missing?

        Lemmy censorship

        In the case of lemmy.ml leadership, what we see is extreme censorship. We’re not just talking censorship of trashy messages. I recently posted a thread on the status of the cock.li email servers, and it was censored because the word “cock” appeared in the domain name. (proof). Obviously it’s essential to mention the domain name of the service we’re talking about.

        No one will care if racist msgs get censored, but any post that’s incompatible with an anti-capitalist or anti-government viewpoint is also likely to be censored when you see how fast and loose they are with the censor trigger.

      • Defcon1@lemmy.ml
        11·
        4 years ago

        So am I racist because I’m not an antifa nor a fascist? Do I need to be an antifa to be anti-racist?

        • muesli@lemmy.ml
          2·
          4 years ago

          It’s not a group you sign up for. If you’re not a racist, then yes, your most natural stance is being against fascism: antifa.

        • nutomic@lemmy.mlOPM
          2·
          4 years ago

          Fascism and racism have a large overlap, because they both target the same minorities. So yes, I think anti-racism needs to include anti-fascism.

    • AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
      51·
      4 years ago

      How exactly is “being against the concept of fascism” too much politics? Because that’s what the term “antifa” abbreviates for, nothing more.

    • pistachio@lemmy.ml
      3·
      4 years ago

      that’s very little politics, they’re banning one single political ideology. And fascism is an ideology that’s fundamentally incompatible with the concept of human rights, whose need of respect in the 21st century should be taken for granted and shouldn’t be a political question, i.e. a question which is answered in the political discourse, at all. So yeah, little politics. Fascism = bad, should be universally recognized as true. Nationalism per se not necessarily bad, but palingenetic ultranationalism, which is definition of fascism I’m using, definitely.

      edit: hi lemmy, first post here

        • otso@lemmy.ml
          2·
          4 years ago

          lol. if reddit was too left for you you might not find a platform “neutral” cough(far right) enough for you

          • Dargoth@lemmy.ml
            11·
            4 years ago

            I never said or implied that. This trend of assuming anyone who disagrees with you is ‘far right’ or ‘alt-right’ helps nothing. Also curious is how all of my comments in this thread suddenly have 1 more downvote than a few hours ago before you replied. Probably just chance.

            That aside, I actually agree with the views here, I just don’t like being beaten over the head with it platform-wide.

            • otso@lemmy.ml
              2·
              4 years ago

              I didn’t read the usernames, but it looks like i did downvote you a few times. I don’t think anyone who disagrees with me is facist but if being anti facist is too radical for you, you’re fairly far right

    • Fer@lemmy.ml
      12·
      4 years ago

      Not just a lot of politics, but a lot of censorship from sympathizers of communism / socialism or movements like antifa.

    • Fer@lemmy.ml
      12·
      4 years ago

      Totally true. Also being a communist / socialist is as bad as being a fascist.

      • southerntofu@lemmy.ml
        11·
        4 years ago

        Well it depends what type of “communism” we’re talking about. Fascism has usually a pretty clear understanding: repression of political dissent, emphasis on a national feeling and a sense of unique destiny to destroy/conquer whoever disagrees, various forms of eugenism (in the sense of killing people because they’re homosexual or handicapped), the cult of work as a duty to your homeland, as in some cases also strong racism (to my knowledge this is not a feature of italian fascism, but rather other forms of nazism/fascism).

        So now, what is communism? According to marxists and anarchists, communism is the stateless, peaceful, egalitarian society. However, marxists believe an intermediary step is required to reach communism: the dictatorship of the proletariat, which has led to countless deaths and suffering. So if “dictatorship of the proletariat” is your definition of communism, then i would almost agree with you “communism” is just as bad as “fascism”. However, there still are some differences:

        • women’s rights (and often gay rights) are faring well under marxism-leninism ; that is, women are equal in their right to be exploited by the State
        • most leninist regimes, despite their atrocities, are not known for putting forward racial theories and committing genocides (although Stalin in the USSR had quite some genociding on his hands)

        So no, it’s not the same. And in any way, most people you will meet through life will talk about communism as the principle free and equal society. That is, the abolition of privileges (remember 1789?) and freedom and equality for all. In this anarchist understanding of communism, then really there’s nothing wrong with communism.

        Free association + Mutual aid + Solidarity against domination = <3 Short introduction to anarchism i wrote in another topic