I’m about three-quarters through Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, and I wonder how she would interpret how reality played out in this country, being that her biggest fears would come from the value system she thought of as the solution.
They always double down with a no true Scotsman defense that we didn’t go far enough or didn’t implement the idea in full. This kicks the can down the line to ensure further exploitation.
We all sit back and act like we know how to fix it all but really we don’t. What we do know, and what we need everyone to understand, this ain’t it. Everything else we are capable of improving given the flexibility to make nessisary change and allocating the resources to appropriate people who have real philosophies and experience to make the change. Getting everyone on board needs to happen first.
How? How? How?
Stop listening. Stop listening to the internet. Stop listening to cable TV. If someone says nothing is wrong and nothing needs to change they are benefiting from the purposefully broken system. Stop listening.
Listen to your neighbor. Listen to the teachers. Listen to community’s. Once we can do all that. Then we need to unite all communities under the common goal of providing rest. The builders have built. The creatives have created. The workers have worked. Now they need to rest. They need to heal. They need to raise children who know what a bright future looks like so they can appreciate this life and their own humanity.
Now, everyone panic and tune out because sadly, I’ve given you an impossible task and you will never overcome your own programming.
There is a reason Marxists promote reading history and philosophical theory; because the class struggle has been going on for a long time, and there is much we can learn about our current situation from those that wrote about their experiences in the past.
The issue was how to unite all communities under the common goal of providing rest, not how to learn while suffering. Everyone already knows how to do that. You have nothing to offer.
That’s why I am recommending you read theory. For the why of Capitalism’s inevitable demise, Wage Labor and Capital and Value, Price and Profit both do a much better job of actually explaining the inherent unsustainability of Capitalism.
I mean, not treading the same path. I mean defying what we think is the inevitability. Human brains are capable of great things but they are not capable of predicting the future. The future needs to be shaped and molded real time.
Your incredgulousness is so fucking bizarre. You see the same thing day after day, with no changeand you are upset. And I tell you change needs to just go ahead and happen. And you rather it not.
identify excesses fo power that do not work in the national interest and figure out what stable system can be put in place to regulate those excesses down to lower levels as effectively as possible. simples. /s
regulate banks so that they invest more of your savings in businesses and services that your country needs for your future. (this is a very long term fix as they’ve spent 40-50 years divesting from your society).
regulate capital gains so that business can not meet shareholder needs with asset price bubbles, only dividends.
regulate dividends too. (aim is as Keynes said to avoid “whirlpools of speculation” and see only “bubbles” on a steady stream of investment).
nominal transaction tax (tobin tax), and transaction delay times for all exchanges to stop stock markets being ran so fucking stupidly they do not need to trade that much that often
dissociate commercial banks from building societies separate and minimise home loans- but regulate house prices to prevent mortgage bubble. (/ust accept low gdp growth , gdp is fucking made up number)
basically do a load of FDR bank regulation stuff that got scrapped in the 70s/80s under dubious pretexts.
better to promote localised banking and local lending coops and such, then the power to make businesses loans is held closer to the savers and borrowers, and can be more accountable just by being a closer group that interacts mmore frequently.
regulate scarce situations that are hard to replicate , rent controls in centre of town or near transit (or other land use regualtion).
try to manage away property bubbles - this is part of the reason businesses become uncompetetive, along with all the other stuff that pushes up cost fo living.
Of course regulation is difficult, prone to corruption, as al) the freedoomers will say.
It is after all an excess of power - but it it not the only one and might be the only one with a chance of reducing the ppower of the others unles you cound bloody revolutions every now and again that also end up investing a new set of powerful people…
And it doesn’t help that one of your(assuming i’m talking to usa by context) parties just works solely on behalf of al those power mongers that most need regulation; their real neat trick,“govt is shit”, “look at us we’re govt”, “you’d better reduce the power of regulators in case you elect idiots like us again”
And that line of reasoning is so successful that the other party imitates it.
So you need a way to make the regulators accountable, and elections are not a necessarily the best way to improve regulation , but they can be part of a wider system to hold the regulatros to account.
On a more local scale , something like having to explain themselves and their decisions to random anonymous juries.
They should also, as public officials have to submit their income and weath statements to the jury of the people to try to demostrate no bribery.
you dont need perfect, just a framework where it can improve bit by bit, and gradually weed out those with excess power orwho abuse it. which basically needs transparency and accountability at a level and frequency that matches the circumstances at hand.
I don’t pretend to know the full and total solution, but I do know what need to happen… but I know the historical flashpoints tsld to at has so often forced these issues? Th
You’ve got a chicken and egg problem here. If you don’t provide any solutions why would anybody follow you? You need an idea for people to get onboard with. Currently leftists mostly don’t know what they want, just that it isn’t this. How is that supposed to convince anyone? You can’t just say the current system doesn’t work then not provide any viable alternatives. Lots of people know the current system isn’t great, but they see it as the best system we have because essentially it is until someone comes up with something that doesn’t turn into the CCP or USSR.
This is your programming speaking. Fear, uncertainty, doubt.
People don’t unite under solutions. They unite under ideas.
There are a million fucking problems, each require their own solution. Each need to be defined, examined, and tested. No one can sit there and say, “just do this.”
The work we are doing, and the work that needs done are in opposition to each other. Right now we are working to feed the system. We need to be working on maintaining the system to feed the people.
There are a million fucking problems, each require their own solution. Each need to be defined, examined, and tested. No one can sit there and say, “just do this.”
This is obvious and I never claimed otherwise. You are reading things into what I have said that aren’t there. Different solutions will always be needed for different problems in different contexts. That’s like engineering 101, and should be applied to politics and economics more.
You haven’t met me, you don’t know me, this is an anonymous forum. I could be a salty dog or maybe a limp dick like you but I won’t change a damn thing.
Solutions start with ideas. If you are someone who can’t turn an idea into a workable solution then why would I follow you? The world is full of people who want to be idea people, yet they have no understanding of practical reality. That’s another thing that’s missing from the current leftist movements: understanding of practical reality.
Also I would stop generalising people. I follow solutions, not just ideas. That’s how any engineer should think. After all we are the people who turn lofty goals into reality.
Leftists are at their best when they can see practical problems that everyday people have, and explain why they happen in the context of the larger system and its flaws. Some leftists are great at this. What you need to do is take the next step and propose how you could change, improve, or replace the system and how that would solve the current problems without creating bigger ones. If you can’t do that then ultimately you aren’t going to win in the end, even if you manage to get popular support, even with a revolution.
This is again another type of programing. People arent an engineering problem. Politics will never be removed from emotion.
I’ve told my solution but you instead want a silver bullet. Everyone wants a silver bullet. The silver bullet doesn’t exist and will never come.
We need to build our communities stronger, and need to stop being divided by people with obscene wealth; the people with something to lose if we do just that. Thats what will get us to the next obstacle.
Instead you will wait around for a charismatic leader with the answer to all your problems. Who has come to save us all.
Know how I know you are completely fucked in the head? You think you can fustrate me more than I am already frustrated with the current state of things. We are rock bottom. There is one way out. If you want to stay in the mouse trap you are going to stay in the mouse trap. Nothing I say or do will lead you out.
I am asking for solutions, not some perfect leader. We have seen how leftist ideas of charismatic leaders go, and I don’t want another Lenin, Stalin, or Kim Jong Un. The fact that you jump to the conclusion that solutions = charismatic leader tells me a lot about how you think about politics. Believe it or not not all ideas, systems, and solutions come from the same person. Science isn’t a cult of Sir Isaac Newton so why should politics be this way? Heck why do we even have a single powerful position like President or Prime Minister or King?
Also no you haven’t provided any solutions. All you have done is provide excuses as to why you do not need any. I am not asking for a magic bullet here. I understand that real life systems are necessarily complex and multi-faecited. That’s why having a single leader or person in charge isn’t a smart idea. You can’t ask a single human to have a grasp on the whole of society and all its problems, performance metrics, or trade-offs.
I haven’t provided the solution. Get fucked. HUMANITY hasn’t provided the solution, and it wont! Because if the goal is to have us both walk 100 miles that way and you won’t get off your ass until you think of some shit way to do it, it doesn’t matter if I ride a fucking dinosaur to Timbukto. Short of knocking you on your ass and carrying you there, I can do nothing for the cause.
“So long as I’m free to exploit you into subsistence, you’re free to die in the gutter when you’re too broken to produce value for me!”
-The capitalists destroying us and the habitability of the world for any future humans, solely to run up their ego scores.
I’m about three-quarters through Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, and I wonder how she would interpret how reality played out in this country, being that her biggest fears would come from the value system she thought of as the solution.
They always double down with a no true Scotsman defense that we didn’t go far enough or didn’t implement the idea in full. This kicks the can down the line to ensure further exploitation.
We all sit back and act like we know how to fix it all but really we don’t. What we do know, and what we need everyone to understand, this ain’t it. Everything else we are capable of improving given the flexibility to make nessisary change and allocating the resources to appropriate people who have real philosophies and experience to make the change. Getting everyone on board needs to happen first.
How? How? How?
Stop listening. Stop listening to the internet. Stop listening to cable TV. If someone says nothing is wrong and nothing needs to change they are benefiting from the purposefully broken system. Stop listening.
Listen to your neighbor. Listen to the teachers. Listen to community’s. Once we can do all that. Then we need to unite all communities under the common goal of providing rest. The builders have built. The creatives have created. The workers have worked. Now they need to rest. They need to heal. They need to raise children who know what a bright future looks like so they can appreciate this life and their own humanity.
Now, everyone panic and tune out because sadly, I’ve given you an impossible task and you will never overcome your own programming.
“How? How? How?”
First step is to organize. Join an organization, any organization, or form your own.
Then what?
Then, that social movement (organization) puts forth it’s own candidate(s) to displace the corrupt government.
LOL
There is a reason Marxists promote reading history and philosophical theory; because the class struggle has been going on for a long time, and there is much we can learn about our current situation from those that wrote about their experiences in the past.
The issue was how to unite all communities under the common goal of providing rest, not how to learn while suffering. Everyone already knows how to do that. You have nothing to offer.
I don’t know, man.
This problem won’t be solved by me alone.
Just read theory, it’s not that hard, and people have been discussing how to get out of this Capitalist hellhole for hundreds of years.
You cant even see there is something fundamentally missing, that being the call to action. People rather endlessly argue about for hundreds of years.
You mean just vibing a revolution into action?
That’s why I am recommending you read theory. For the why of Capitalism’s inevitable demise, Wage Labor and Capital and Value, Price and Profit both do a much better job of actually explaining the inherent unsustainability of Capitalism.
I mean, not treading the same path. I mean defying what we think is the inevitability. Human brains are capable of great things but they are not capable of predicting the future. The future needs to be shaped and molded real time.
Your incredgulousness is so fucking bizarre. You see the same thing day after day, with no changeand you are upset. And I tell you change needs to just go ahead and happen. And you rather it not.
You’re misreading me. Change happens every day. Socialism is the answer
Make socialism happen then
By vibing it into existence? Can’t. It must be built through organizing and revolution.
Read theory.
heres some radom impractal ideas.
identify excesses fo power that do not work in the national interest and figure out what stable system can be put in place to regulate those excesses down to lower levels as effectively as possible. simples. /s
regulate banks so that they invest more of your savings in businesses and services that your country needs for your future. (this is a very long term fix as they’ve spent 40-50 years divesting from your society).
regulate capital gains so that business can not meet shareholder needs with asset price bubbles, only dividends. regulate dividends too. (aim is as Keynes said to avoid “whirlpools of speculation” and see only “bubbles” on a steady stream of investment).
nominal transaction tax (tobin tax), and transaction delay times for all exchanges to stop stock markets being ran so fucking stupidly they do not need to trade that much that often
dissociate commercial banks from building societies separate and minimise home loans- but regulate house prices to prevent mortgage bubble. (/ust accept low gdp growth , gdp is fucking made up number) basically do a load of FDR bank regulation stuff that got scrapped in the 70s/80s under dubious pretexts.
better to promote localised banking and local lending coops and such, then the power to make businesses loans is held closer to the savers and borrowers, and can be more accountable just by being a closer group that interacts mmore frequently.
regulate scarce situations that are hard to replicate , rent controls in centre of town or near transit (or other land use regualtion). try to manage away property bubbles - this is part of the reason businesses become uncompetetive, along with all the other stuff that pushes up cost fo living.
Of course regulation is difficult, prone to corruption, as al) the freedoomers will say. It is after all an excess of power - but it it not the only one and might be the only one with a chance of reducing the ppower of the others unles you cound bloody revolutions every now and again that also end up investing a new set of powerful people… And it doesn’t help that one of your(assuming i’m talking to usa by context) parties just works solely on behalf of al those power mongers that most need regulation; their real neat trick,“govt is shit”, “look at us we’re govt”, “you’d better reduce the power of regulators in case you elect idiots like us again” And that line of reasoning is so successful that the other party imitates it.
So you need a way to make the regulators accountable, and elections are not a necessarily the best way to improve regulation , but they can be part of a wider system to hold the regulatros to account. On a more local scale , something like having to explain themselves and their decisions to random anonymous juries. They should also, as public officials have to submit their income and weath statements to the jury of the people to try to demostrate no bribery.
you dont need perfect, just a framework where it can improve bit by bit, and gradually weed out those with excess power orwho abuse it. which basically needs transparency and accountability at a level and frequency that matches the circumstances at hand.
Oh man seething sarcasm, I’m great at this.
These ideas are actually good. I can’t imagine why they won’t be implemented immediately.
haha. yeah clinical depression is the most realistic outcome.
I don’t pretend to know the full and total solution, but I do know what need to happen… but I know the historical flashpoints tsld to at has so often forced these issues? Th
And what’s that?
What is to be Done?
I asked kora what they know.
The stringed instrument, or the avatar?
You’ve got a chicken and egg problem here. If you don’t provide any solutions why would anybody follow you? You need an idea for people to get onboard with. Currently leftists mostly don’t know what they want, just that it isn’t this. How is that supposed to convince anyone? You can’t just say the current system doesn’t work then not provide any viable alternatives. Lots of people know the current system isn’t great, but they see it as the best system we have because essentially it is until someone comes up with something that doesn’t turn into the CCP or USSR.
This is your programming speaking. Fear, uncertainty, doubt.
People don’t unite under solutions. They unite under ideas.
There are a million fucking problems, each require their own solution. Each need to be defined, examined, and tested. No one can sit there and say, “just do this.”
The work we are doing, and the work that needs done are in opposition to each other. Right now we are working to feed the system. We need to be working on maintaining the system to feed the people.
This is obvious and I never claimed otherwise. You are reading things into what I have said that aren’t there. Different solutions will always be needed for different problems in different contexts. That’s like engineering 101, and should be applied to politics and economics more.
I don’t care what you claim. It’s not helpful. It’s not having any impact. Change course.
And you think you are? Literally one of the most salty people I have met. You aren’t convincing anyone.
You haven’t met me, you don’t know me, this is an anonymous forum. I could be a salty dog or maybe a limp dick like you but I won’t change a damn thing.
I know how you are acting now, and you are acting like an insane person or a troll, or maybe both.
Solutions start with ideas. If you are someone who can’t turn an idea into a workable solution then why would I follow you? The world is full of people who want to be idea people, yet they have no understanding of practical reality. That’s another thing that’s missing from the current leftist movements: understanding of practical reality.
Also I would stop generalising people. I follow solutions, not just ideas. That’s how any engineer should think. After all we are the people who turn lofty goals into reality.
Leftists are at their best when they can see practical problems that everyday people have, and explain why they happen in the context of the larger system and its flaws. Some leftists are great at this. What you need to do is take the next step and propose how you could change, improve, or replace the system and how that would solve the current problems without creating bigger ones. If you can’t do that then ultimately you aren’t going to win in the end, even if you manage to get popular support, even with a revolution.
This is again another type of programing. People arent an engineering problem. Politics will never be removed from emotion.
I’ve told my solution but you instead want a silver bullet. Everyone wants a silver bullet. The silver bullet doesn’t exist and will never come.
We need to build our communities stronger, and need to stop being divided by people with obscene wealth; the people with something to lose if we do just that. Thats what will get us to the next obstacle.
Instead you will wait around for a charismatic leader with the answer to all your problems. Who has come to save us all.
You haven’t though, just said some vague phrases and hinted that if everyone else just thought like you the problem would resolve itself.
Know how I know you are completely fucked in the head? You think you can fustrate me more than I am already frustrated with the current state of things. We are rock bottom. There is one way out. If you want to stay in the mouse trap you are going to stay in the mouse trap. Nothing I say or do will lead you out.
Hahaha, oh no friend it’s going to get so much worse.
You haven’t done that.
I am asking for solutions, not some perfect leader. We have seen how leftist ideas of charismatic leaders go, and I don’t want another Lenin, Stalin, or Kim Jong Un. The fact that you jump to the conclusion that solutions = charismatic leader tells me a lot about how you think about politics. Believe it or not not all ideas, systems, and solutions come from the same person. Science isn’t a cult of Sir Isaac Newton so why should politics be this way? Heck why do we even have a single powerful position like President or Prime Minister or King?
Also no you haven’t provided any solutions. All you have done is provide excuses as to why you do not need any. I am not asking for a magic bullet here. I understand that real life systems are necessarily complex and multi-faecited. That’s why having a single leader or person in charge isn’t a smart idea. You can’t ask a single human to have a grasp on the whole of society and all its problems, performance metrics, or trade-offs.
I haven’t provided the solution. Get fucked. HUMANITY hasn’t provided the solution, and it wont! Because if the goal is to have us both walk 100 miles that way and you won’t get off your ass until you think of some shit way to do it, it doesn’t matter if I ride a fucking dinosaur to Timbukto. Short of knocking you on your ass and carrying you there, I can do nothing for the cause.
Are you okay? How is this in anyway a response to what I have said. You are just being rude, and acting like a troll.