Funny because it you talk to libertarians, we’ve never had a pure capitalist society. You probably just don’t realize how similar they all are to the people who claim we’ve never tried our Communism.
Because for the idea of communism to exists it would have to be globally, otherwise youd need a state and a definition of communism is a stateless and classless society.
A common misconception is to think that what the Soviets, Chinese, Cubans, etc. were/are doing is communism, when in fact it’s communists exercising state power to organize the economy in a state socialist, market socialist (or SWCC) etc. way. You can’t just claim power and say it’s communism now, in a context where globally capitalism and imperial forces exist. (See if you find and notable examples of anarchist/stateless societies that survived)
The cold war lasted a long time. Sure, pure communism is probably going to take a lot more time, but what these countries did (well ig I don’t know about Cuba) is move away from it. Every political system needs some idea of implementation and transition, and of course defense. To say that it’s impossible for a system to do that is conceding its outright utopicness.
I really don’t know what you mean by “it would have to be globally”. In anarchism, you solve communication with others by temporarily agreeing to have someone speak with other communities and rotating that person.
I really don’t know what you mean by “it would have to be globally”
A new system will always exist within an old one. You cant proclaim communism/anarchism and think that other countries will just stand by idle. (See Rojava, etc.) In a world where most other countries are capitalist and go on imperialist emdevours, you’re basically inviting them to colonize you, because you don’t have a state apparatus to organize defense. Communism/anarchism can only be proclaimed at once and globally where adveserial forces to the working class had been overcome.
Communists in China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. are aware of it and are exercising state power to navigate these conditions. What they are doing is socialism, which ofc still has classes and it’s own contradictions which are being resolved.
Yes, they’re socialist. No, they did not work towards communism. Brezhnev and Deng did not simplify government and declared the end of the era of working towards communism as well as a new era of practicing socialism. Sure, implementing communism would take a long time, but I don’t see how they’re working towards it instead of just improving on socialism.
I don’t know what AES is.
Before I read a full nonfiction book, I check its summary on Wikipedia or Goodreads to see if it’s worth reading. I don’t see how this book on socialism relates to the topic, which is how any system you can’t implement is utopic.
because you don’t have a state apparatus to organize defense
Volunteer militias. Stateless doesn’t mean people can’t organize. This applies to many kinds of work as well: roles on the railway have to constantly communicate with each other.
Sure, implementing communism would take a long time, but I don’t see how they’re working towards it instead of just improving on socialism.
What do you mean by this? Specifically “improving on socialism”? Reading this I get the impression that you don’t know what you’re talking about, but would like to give you a chance to clarify.
I don’t know what AES is
Actually existing socialism. One party proletarian states lead by Marxists-Leninists.
Yes, they’re socialist
I don’t see how this book on socialism relates to the topic, which is how any system you can’t implement is utopic.
Good that we agree that China, Soviet Russia, Cuba etc. Are Socialist. Since they obv were able to implement socialism they’re not utopian. I recommend the book because I wasn’t sure you were aware of that
Volunteer militias. Stateless doesn’t mean people can’t organize. This applies to many kinds of work as well: roles on the railway have to constantly communicate with each other.
Sounds utopian and not very effective to me when you have countries that have conscription and Military industrie. Can you give examples that exist today and how it can defense itself against such adversaries?
For example, China ended most collective ownership and switched to market socialism. It works, and the government regulates it quite well, but you also have a pretty authoritarian state that keeps consolidating its power. Now the market’s taken for granted; its principles haven’t changed towards communism in the decades since it’s been implemented. That seems like abandoning the idea of implementing communism and just maintaining their socialist market economy for now.
Since they obv were able to implement socialism they’re not utopian.
I was talking about communism and how you claim that, for defense reasons, it can only be implemented globally. I think we agree that socialism doesn’t dismantle the state and isn’t utopic. I think we’ve been collectively bamboozled.
On military industry, of course that still exists while stateless. I don’t need to stress how many tankies and War Thunder players there are online who’d happily start working on building or R&Ding military stuff. It’s no different than any other industry except the massive amount of government funding, which would be useless in a stateless society where people are motivated by better means.
Funny because it you talk to libertarians, we’ve never had a pure capitalist society. You probably just don’t realize how similar they all are to the people who claim we’ve never tried our Communism.
When you dont know the difference between socialism and communism
You’ll have to explain what you think I don’t understand and how you came to that conclusion.
Because for the idea of communism to exists it would have to be globally, otherwise youd need a state and a definition of communism is a stateless and classless society.
A common misconception is to think that what the Soviets, Chinese, Cubans, etc. were/are doing is communism, when in fact it’s communists exercising state power to organize the economy in a state socialist, market socialist (or SWCC) etc. way. You can’t just claim power and say it’s communism now, in a context where globally capitalism and imperial forces exist. (See if you find and notable examples of anarchist/stateless societies that survived)
The cold war lasted a long time. Sure, pure communism is probably going to take a lot more time, but what these countries did (well ig I don’t know about Cuba) is move away from it. Every political system needs some idea of implementation and transition, and of course defense. To say that it’s impossible for a system to do that is conceding its outright utopicness.
I really don’t know what you mean by “it would have to be globally”. In anarchism, you solve communication with others by temporarily agreeing to have someone speak with other communities and rotating that person.
Move away how and were? The Soviets, Chinese, Cubans, definitely were/are socialist.
Yes and AES states managed to do so.
Frederick Engels - Socialism: Utopian and Scientific https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
A new system will always exist within an old one. You cant proclaim communism/anarchism and think that other countries will just stand by idle. (See Rojava, etc.) In a world where most other countries are capitalist and go on imperialist emdevours, you’re basically inviting them to colonize you, because you don’t have a state apparatus to organize defense. Communism/anarchism can only be proclaimed at once and globally where adveserial forces to the working class had been overcome.
Communists in China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. are aware of it and are exercising state power to navigate these conditions. What they are doing is socialism, which ofc still has classes and it’s own contradictions which are being resolved.
Yes, they’re socialist. No, they did not work towards communism. Brezhnev and Deng did not simplify government and declared the end of the era of working towards communism as well as a new era of practicing socialism. Sure, implementing communism would take a long time, but I don’t see how they’re working towards it instead of just improving on socialism.
I don’t know what AES is.
Before I read a full nonfiction book, I check its summary on Wikipedia or Goodreads to see if it’s worth reading. I don’t see how this book on socialism relates to the topic, which is how any system you can’t implement is utopic.
Volunteer militias. Stateless doesn’t mean people can’t organize. This applies to many kinds of work as well: roles on the railway have to constantly communicate with each other.
What do you mean by this? Specifically “improving on socialism”? Reading this I get the impression that you don’t know what you’re talking about, but would like to give you a chance to clarify.
Actually existing socialism. One party proletarian states lead by Marxists-Leninists.
Good that we agree that China, Soviet Russia, Cuba etc. Are Socialist. Since they obv were able to implement socialism they’re not utopian. I recommend the book because I wasn’t sure you were aware of that
Sounds utopian and not very effective to me when you have countries that have conscription and Military industrie. Can you give examples that exist today and how it can defense itself against such adversaries?
For example, China ended most collective ownership and switched to market socialism. It works, and the government regulates it quite well, but you also have a pretty authoritarian state that keeps consolidating its power. Now the market’s taken for granted; its principles haven’t changed towards communism in the decades since it’s been implemented. That seems like abandoning the idea of implementing communism and just maintaining their socialist market economy for now.
I was talking about communism and how you claim that, for defense reasons, it can only be implemented globally. I think we agree that socialism doesn’t dismantle the state and isn’t utopic. I think we’ve been collectively bamboozled.
On military industry, of course that still exists while stateless. I don’t need to stress how many tankies and War Thunder players there are online who’d happily start working on building or R&Ding military stuff. It’s no different than any other industry except the massive amount of government funding, which would be useless in a stateless society where people are motivated by better means.
The United States has voluntary militaries and militias. China also has volunteer service, albeit de facto. These are some of the best militaries in the world.