Interesting that Musk ever met J.Epstein, seems like he knew everyone indeed.

And yeah, weird how many people from the right are saying that Hitler was a socialist/communist, he fought the u.s.s.r. in Spain and young communists were killing/‘killed by’ young nazis in the streets of Germany during the 20s-30s(, learned that last one here i think(, in french sry)), and Hitler clearly wasn’t anti-capitalist, i mean, kinda unbelievable.
I guess the only argument is that the state had an increased role than usual because of the war effort, like every state in every war, but he was so vehemently anti-communist(, that he associated with the jews apparently,) that it’s hard to believe he was socialist, where’s the ownership of the means of production ?
It may also be still talked about because of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact that happened, once again, after the violent Spanish war that could have been won if the so-called “leftist” french Popular Front wasn’t a fucking traitor, i’m sure that we can always say that the historical context is complicated but they left the spanish, and the soviets already tired by many previous wars, fight alone. They’re currently celebrated but i’m not forgiving them for that.

And yep, ok, thanks for the context surrounding this photo, that was informative.
It’s also interesting that something like Redlib exists despite Reddit making its a.p.i. costly, i.d.k. how they’re doing that(, by scraping data perhaps ?)

Even when I was a child I was still more politically sophisticated than he is.

Quite sure he knows more about “anarcho”-capitalism than any of us on Lemmygrad though.
And now that i think about it, he was probably saying that half of south korean and west german enterprises were state-owned(, i couldn’t find the evolution of the ratio private//public but it’s possible that it reached a third), here’s what i found here b.t.w. :

By saying that his argument was non existent[1], i was the one defending E.Musk.
[1] : And if you’re not convinced, just imagine a pro-capitalist sending you a picture of Xi Jinping and J.Epstein in the same frame as if it was a gotcha moment

But i appreciate that we don’t forget Jeffrey Epstein though, so much for our exemplary (bourgeois )democracy(, Michael Schwartz, Steve Bing, Thomas Bowers, Jean-Luc Brunel, Steven Hoffenberg, Roy Den Hollander, and many more suspicions of murders that our medias didn’t talk about, because conspiracies are dangerous).
Reminds me of Boeing.
An example of conspiracy is that i’m even more certain now that Israel blew up Lebanon’s port(, but i don’t have any proof obviously).

Yeah, and what’s “funny” is they don’t realize you can see China in their pictures 🙄 :
In fact, it’s an(other) argument against western imperialism.

Berlin wasn’t supposed to be divided in the first place 👍, of course that workers will go where salaries are higher. Your second link isn’t accessible and, even if it’s my fault, your picture is obviously not an argument but you know that and i should shut my trap because defending E.Musk, even by denouncing bad/non-existent arguments, isn’t allowed, sry.

« A total of 1,030 people — including 156 women and 87 children — have been killed in Israeli strikes in Lebanon in less than two weeks, the country’s health minister said Saturday. » (source)

of course it’s better than France since France is still colonial imperialist power and this hellhole was once SFRY

(don’t know why i chuckled at your “of course”, i’ve only spent a few days on lemmy.world and already forgot what Lemmygrad was like, quite apart from the rest of the Internet :))

I still don’t entirely agree with the term fascism, even if i could see how the rhetoric about muslims in France is close to the rhetoric about jews in the past, e.g., they’re destroying the fabric of society by not being french enough, and are a threat solely by their identity, an annoyance to get rid of, even an attack.
But their militarism isn’t as exacerbated(, which could be explained solely by the context), the same goes for their nationalism as well(, even if they’re not internationalist, and if hearing America first or France first, even at the expense of other countries, isn’t uncommon), and it’s always a bit worrying to hear them praise order and the restoration of authority.
They’re still in favor of bourgeois democracy though, without public plans for a stronger leadership, don’t openly support censorship, or express themselves as being a third way against liberalism.
They don’t talk about the “french race” as inherently superior to the others with a classification of the different races in a biological way, nor put forward the virile/military strength of the male in order to save the nation.
When they talk about our past you can feel that monarchism isn’t entirely dead in the heart of some of them, but damn, you can also almost even hear them talk of direct democracy sometimes(, although it may be a french exception).
But even if i personally consider the qualification fascism as an exaggeration since it can always be worse, i can see how it’s similar, it’s perhaps indeed more a question of quantity/intensity than quality/nature.
It’s just that being pro-capitalist seems enough of a slur for me 🤷, it means legalizing theft and heading back to a feodal society(, even if technological progress may change this course towards more inequalities).

some people love China and view it in positive light

Yeah, we don’t have that here, they’re a dictatorship that persecute its opposition and if it falls we’ll applaud this liberation. No need to explain to you why that’s bullshit and revolting.

extreme racism against Roma

That’s everywhere indeed, they’re seen as criminals/thieves who don’t want to work(, how could they without papers ?), people seeing their encampments sometimes think that it’s disgusting and should go away, even if they’re still allowed to stay quite a few years in the end, and it’s not to the point of Ukraine for whom i’ve seen videos of pogroms against the Romani people(, i remember a video where they were chased in the woods), this could happen if our economic situation deteriorates.
I don’t believe in national essentialism, or thinking that the poors deserve their fate(, since they don’t have the same ‘birth privileges’/‘starting advantages’,) instead of being born at the wrong place/time and just needing help as we all do… I don’t know if you have this expression in Serbia to criticize the actions of our government “strong with the weak, and weak with the strong”. Well, everything can always be worse, at least we’ve avoided the horrors of war…

Here’s something i’ve just seen that may be indicative(, or be a wrong example i.d.k.), if you translate these comments then you’ll see that most people are supporting the condemnation of two protestors that will live two whole years in a jail cell for dirtying a glass protection, absolutely zero damage was caused(, i don’t know how they attained the number of 10.000£), we’re not allowed to do violent protests and that’s the most nonviolent i could think of, it even made a bit of publicity for this art piece. I can’t understand the state but even worse it’s all of these comments that i cannot understand, they’re either against ecology(, why ?), or mistakenly believed that this art piece was ruined(, i doubt it), i don’t know, that’s the “strong against the weak” part, as for the “weak against the strong” there’s private-public partnerships(, e.g., highway tolls), or the tax evasion&avoidance, etc., you’re not going to hit the friends that helped you after all 🤷
It was retweeted by someone, Guillaume Meurice, who worked in one of the last public medias that we still have for more than a decade, and was fired, unbelievably, because of a segment in which he jokingly said while laughing that « In fact, Netanyahu is like Hitler, but without a foreskin », i shit you not it’s for that sole reason officially and nothing else, i can’t understand why a lot of people agreed that he went too far and had to be fired, in my eyes i’m convinced that he was fired for being probably (one of )the last “leftist” in our medias(, clearly not a communist propagandist/theorician mind you, we don’t have that in France except on the Internet, but he’s not against the idea of communism, he’s for a more humane capitalism, and criticize our excesses).
Here’s another example seen today, even if examples aren’t as solid/serious as mentioning statistics and laws.

Well, i’ll not make my review of the whole state of France(, not sure i’d be able to anyway), but here’s some anecdotes as well, could be worse, could be better.

I consider myself to be much more of a theocrat than a communist, i see the latter as a consequence of the former, and if i had to choose between God and anything else then the choice is immediately done(, the most extreme would be to ask me to choose between God and what i consider to be virtuous, even if i can’t imagine such situation).
I’m probably one of the only theocrat on Lemmygrad, but i don’t think it’s against the rules as long as i’m still communist, if you ever want to convince me that religions should disappear, i’m interested in such debate(, otherwise feel free to ignore this paragraph :)), the only thing i’m missing from reddit are those subreddits dedicated to debates(, even if it takes time).

Thank you very much, i forgot about privatizations, and initially thought you were talking about brand new industries 100% paid by the state immediately given to foreign hands(, the steel mill factory in Silesia being built in the 70s).
But yeah, it could have brought a lot of money to the state coffers instead of the same foreign capitalist hands. Our public workers have(had) better salaries and working conditions than private ones in France, and it’s strangely used as an argument against public enterprises rather than against private enterprises. We’re quick to say that these better conditions means higher prices(, but higher salaries means being able to buy at higher prices anyway), yet we’ll ignore that higher dividends also mean higher prices, and public enterprises usually have zero dividends as well as fewer salary gaps.

Well, in any case, that was informative, and i didn’t know about the gift of japanese state-owned enterprises to the zaibatsus, thanks !

I’ve quickly documented myself on the “polish economic miracle” a few years ago, but only remember that it was linked with millions of polish working in other european countries, as well as important foreign direct investments, you seem knowledgeable so perhaps could you redirect me towards some explanations for this, or take a bit of your time to explain it to me yourself ? I’ve also postponed the understanding for China’s success, this topic of “Why do some countries become wealthy and not others” is among the most interesting possible.
Also, having never heard of Poland(, or any country for that matter,) funding 100% of a company while leaving the dividends to foreign hands, i’d like to know more about that as well if you have the time and/or a link.

Wow, that was very informative on more than one level, i wrote answers to more than a dozen comments these past days and yours is probably my favorite, thanks !

The situation you described initially reminded me of accounts i’ve read from eastern europe, but then progressively i’ve realized that it’s probably the same in other countries with the rise of the far-right everywhere and the displacement of the Overton window. In France we’ve pretty much sold every single public company, and Serbia is incredibly much more socialist than i first thought, you almost don’t have any communists in France, our far-far-left political parties are trostkyists that are anti-Russia(, i’ll still vote for them obviously, our medias wouldn’t leave them alone if they supported Venezuela, Russia, etc., and don’t even begin with North Korea,) and probably consider China a dictatorship, while our “socialist party” has been capitalist for decades, etc. Serbia in comparison doesn’t seem worse, i’ve lived all my life without knowing what socialism means, you still have remnants.
Once capitalists are in power, it’s not surprising for anti-communism to be on the rise, please don’t blame the population too much for not taking weapons, we’ll have to do counter-propaganda ideally but our funds are more meager and i could understand if it seems like a lost cause. For that matter, i don’t think that a communist revolution is likely to happen in France(, where i’m from,) either, nor in the u.s.a.
I misunderstood what you meant by “there is no saving” before, i thought that you were, e.g., french or american, and deemed these countries much worse than your own, when you’re in fact comparing it the inspiring Yugoslavia of Tito(, believe it or not, despite its closeness, most french people don’t know him and forgot about Yugoslavia, and he would obviously be classified as a dictator for not having bourgeois democracy). I didn’t realize that your criticism came from the inside, but please do not despair ! Things change, and indeed these graphs show that Serbia isn’t as anti-China as you thought(, the same goes for Hungary), it’s at least one reason to rejoice.

Ah, and pardon me, but your grandmother seems awesome(, do you have any idea what my family members believes in(, i’m honestly not complaining) ? Having a grandmother that likes Lenin&Stalin and even believes that V.Putin is a crypto-socialist seems awesome/unbelievable, congratulations, she’s even surfing the web, and she stops when he’s talking about the replacement theory ? Man, we also have whole channels and political parties that talk about this all day, my grandmother has already integrated this as a fact many years ago and believes that immigrants are the cause of crimes, not poverty(, and is also certain that crimes are on the rise, like a lot of people, even if surveys show the contrary, we’re beyond being anti-communist by forgetting about it)).
(For the record, i’m not saying that being against economic immigration is immoral, but not treating the unfair causes is, because i’m picturing an hopefully false future in which we’ll live centuries among richs behind our walls, while the rest of our human family lives ‘exploited by’&‘poorer than’ us with, e.g., an inferior salary, if i’m wrong and international inequalities aren’t a moral problem, or will soon disappear, then let’s “save our culture from destruction” by closing our borders to these poorer/exploited guys, otherwise let’s focus instead on treating the causes(, while making sure it won’t bite us afterwards,) because i certainly don’t want such selfish future)

B.t.w., are you financially independent with your own place ? If not, it’ll get better at this moment according to my experience, some people are annoying(, but, i mean, your aunt still claim to be socialist, my family members don’t even want to debate so i’m explicitly told to shut up each time(, we’ll still love each other though, just that no politics or any other debate is allowed, you can imagine how watching the news while eating quickly gets challenging :))), but even if they’re annoying you’ll have to challenge yourself as this is the occasion to bring the best of yourself, to try small pertinent comments in a loving voice if you manage to, and take time to let them explain their worldview to you even if you already know it(, sometimes ending their sentences if it gets too long).
That’s just my personal opinion, we’re here to make this world a better place aren’t we ? Nobody’s perfect(, very clearly myself first).

I’ve got time, so we could be (learning from each other by) having a debate on religion and/or conspirationnism if you’re in a mood for that(, debating is fun and instructive ?). But i’ll totally understand if you lack the time and/or will to continue this discussion for too long.

Well, not necessarily, it’s only suspended not canceled :)

Then please send them, i assumed that you were only talking about l.g.b.t. laws.

This graph is not related at all, it’s from 2021 and it’s global investments, look at the y axis. Poland would barely be shown there as pixel.
And in the other graphs in your link you can see that US investments in Poland were less than Belgian or Swiss or Swedish

Yep, you’re right about the y-axis, i’ve read that too quickly.
And the other graphs in the pdf seem indeed to confirm that 2023 was an exception :

I should probably research it a bit more to have a more precise point of view.

I.d.k., but even if it was scrapped it’s probably counted in.

I’ve found this graph here :

This table here may be a good enough answer ?

I don’t know for the other years, and couldn’t easily find data to conclude, but the article writes that :

Intel, a chipmaker, picked Poland for a $4.6bn plant

That’d be 4.6bn out of the ~$7bn on the graph

I should probably stop having clashes online, but i’ve nothing else to do currently.

I’d say : isolate yourself then.
On my part, i’ll believe we need allies and not “left purity”, let’s survive first.
Also, feel free to disagree but even after ensuring the survival of the communist ideals i want a multipolar/multinodal world, i don’t want a uniform communist world-state but communists, theocrats, monarchists, real/direct democrats, “anarcho”-capitalists, extreme ecologists, and many more. I.d.c. about world domination, it’s not desirable, feel free to dislike these countries but i won’t.

Ah, i’m sorry but i can’t wrap my head around why counting(, or not,) Russia in the foreign investments number would change something about this likelihood : if it is absent then China is still enough(, and if it is present then this likelihood would increase). Sorry for my lack of comprehension and feel free not to explain yourself further on this detail if you don’t consider it important.

colour revolution based only off of this data is unlikely

While i don’t see the link with Russia(, since the p.r.c. is enough in itself), i entirely agree with this quote, it can just be considered as one of the indicators of geopolitical alignment, and i felt interesting to share this ~discovery with Lemmygrad.

no clue 🤷, perhaps a mistake ?
The article isn’t more informative about this “top three countries”(, and announces a european ban on chinese electric vehicles) : https://archive.ph/69zPS, with the usual race to the bottom :

Rich countries may offer more subsidies, but CEE countries have cheaper land and labour, looser regulations and lower taxes.

I don’t understand your point and i don’t see a mention of russian foreign investments in the infographic(, probably in the category “Others” ?)

(It’s not related to your comment but this post also made me think of investments in Ukraine’s economy to incentivize its political alignement change, closer with its past values and those of its south(, if it doesn’t end up absorbed in a tri-alliance with Belarus or something else keeping the n.a.t.o. out, who knows), as well as the topic of spheres of influence)

(i’ve reached the limit of characters so i can’t develop in the selftext on why Russia’s invasion was more of a necessity for survival than a desire to avoid a future burden. I’ve also stopped documenting myself on this topic two years ago and it’s not always that easy to understand the russian point of view on the western part of the Internet, but if they speak of a necessity then i trust them, they’re not risking a nuclear annihilation on a whim and have warned about this for at least 20 years. If Ukraine joins the n.a.t.o. then the rest of the ex-u.s.s.r. is most likely to follow, a buffer state seems like a centuries-old demand on the russian side that they don’t want to let go of, but i’ve no doubts that i’ve ignored many more arguments, and i don’t see why the n.a.t.o. would “need” Ukraine for its defense or for anything else apart from getting even closer to Russia, billions of dollars well spent since 1991(&before))

it really seems to me like there is very little reason for this feud

What’s your opinion, or that of any reader passing here, about the way to behave when you’re attacked by the west ? Our newspapers often painted Evo Morales in a negative way despite his exemplarity, sometimes even as a dictator.
Wikipedia states that « Since 1950, Bolivia has seen the most coups of any country », isn’t sacrificing Evo Morales a good thing to please the west ? Will it be enough, and will it be beneficial for Bolivia ?

With that defeatist/cautious mindset, every opposition would have fallen one after the other, only brave rebellions ended slavery, colonization, occupations, … Fighting back seems more dangerous than submitting, but perhaps that it isn’t, and the current government isn’t really submitting but simply being less vocal, if sacrificing Evo could make them gain more years to develop their cultural revolution, then isn’t it worth it ?

On the other side, sacrificing Stalin didn’t accomplish much in the end, because the problem was that they dared to have a different ideology, and even when the u.s.s.r. and eastern europe progressively gave up on socialism, and disappeared, it still wasn’t enough, because Russia was then criticized for supporting Yugoslavia, Lybia, Syria, etc., the endgoal for now is the stupid uniformity, until Russia, and the rest of the world, is aligned with western interests.

There’s no talk of cooperation towards other different countries, it’s about selfish competition.

Yes, it’s tempting to be less vocal in your opposition, but it may also mean being less supportive of, e.g., Venezuela or Cuba, in the name of protecting your own country first.
Yes, nothing will change unless we unite together, but their/our history book is unfortunately full of martyrs that failed, should they/we avenge, e.g., Che Guevara, or learn to not make waves because they have responsabilities ?

Is this willingness of appeasing the west pointless(, whether or not it’s the cause of this feud) ?
From my point of view, their indigenous movement will be next once we’ve destroyed more influent differences such as islamists and the last socialists, they’re simply not powerful enough to be deemed a potential threat.
Yet on the other side it’d be foolish to haste a coup if it can be delayed or even avoided, and a bit naive to simply trust that the population will lead a civil war in order to get the power back.

Most countries try to stay neutral(, some by rejecting all sides and others by supporting all sides). This world sucks, nothing new, clearly nothing normal since uniformity isn’t desirable.

I think that may be a reason : Evo Morales isn’t supported enough by the west.
Does someone here have an opinion on the right action to take ? It’s hard to blame Luis Arce if it’s the main reason to act as such, but it’s also a dangerous slippery slope that he shouldn’t be proud of taking, once again if that’s indeed the reason.