I feel like a lot of this is also the case with Apple’s ecosystem. People get used to having specific apps and get complacent. In that case though I feel like another driving factor is the financial investment when you have iOS and MacOS apps, an iPhone, an iPad, and so on that all mesh with each other.
I also think that it’s not a great take that the OS vendor shouldn’t include decent default apps for most people. I mean, I know we’re in c/linux, but the vast majority of people don’t want to start with a terminal and build their system out from there. Hell, even the vast majority of linux users don’t, so then it’s just nitpicking where the line of which defaults should be included is.
I have to believe the person who uses Apple Notes, Reminders, Safari, Calendar, etc
I am that person now. Your example about Reminders is basically exactly why. I used to try and then pay for a ton of services to cover reminders/todos because I too was looking for that perfect app that worked just the way I wanted, and really the only thing I got out of it was making a slightly different trade off that I was then paying for in quite a lot of cases. it also happens that nearly all of those apps were closing gaps with the reasons I moved away from them to begin with. For the average user, they likely won’t even look much past the defaults because the defaults are actually pretty good, and so if you don’t have an advanced use case, your needs are covered. Like, I used Trello and Todoist for kanban for larger projects and it’s now native in Reminders.
Maybe if the Linux community decided on one default there would be more progress on inroads with desktop Linux.
Well, Linus at least agrees with you. I just watch a talk he gave the other day in which he described one of the biggest problems with Linux desktop being that the distros can’t even decide on a default package manager/way to package applications and all of the difficulties that creates.
It’s funny because even for simple stuff like when I used to update my Plex install manually I’d go to the Plex website, and the list is:
Windows
Mac
Linux:
Debian x 32 Bit
Debian x.1 32 Bit
Debian x 64 bit
Debian x.1 64 Bit
Fedora …
Ubuntu …
Cent …
and god help you if you’re not on one of those versions or you don’t use one of those distros.
I feel like I’ve seen TestFlight used a fair amount lately.
I have no clue what the jailbreak community is like anymore. I’ve heard Cydia isn’t really a thing with newer versions of iOS so I have no idea how lockdown iPhones are anymore.
I’m not sure, but even with jailbreaking, iOS isn’t certified UNIX. It doesn’t have a command line shell built-in that you can access easily like macOS.
So I really meant “locked down” in the sense that you’re not getting easy access to command line interface that can access system files without jailbreaking/rooting first.
I do think jailbreaking and rooting is easier than it used to be, but I don’t mess with iOS devices much.
I know so many web developers who use MacOS, and I think it must be because of the command line. It’s like Linux is still too scary, even for professionals.
I feel like I’m getting more and more on a limb using Linux as a dev. I’m working on a Linux only product and yet I’m the only one not on OS X and all the rest of them have to jump through hoops to get things to work, and can’t run our system locally like I can. My last job was the same except 2 of us used Linux.
I can’t even work out what they’re getting out of it apart from the hardware. But when I tell them that developing from Linux is easy and comfortable they don’t believe me.
This, and the general business ecosystem. Few companies even ship hardware with Linux support, especially at big business scale. I didn’t even see an option from Dell any longer, Lenovo has one machine it looks like, so you’d be going for something like System76 which operates no where close to the same scale.
professionals are more likely to prefer a locked down easy environment because of it’s lack of variation the same way one would prefer a bare cli debian over a full featured distribution of even windows with all it’s features and trinkets that can eat time away from the main task, mac os is bare and easy like a desk with nothing but a pen and clipboard, pretty bad if you want to fix a ventilator but perfect if you just want to write
I feel like a lot of this is also the case with Apple’s ecosystem. People get used to having specific apps and get complacent. In that case though I feel like another driving factor is the financial investment when you have iOS and MacOS apps, an iPhone, an iPad, and so on that all mesh with each other.
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I also think that it’s not a great take that the OS vendor shouldn’t include decent default apps for most people. I mean, I know we’re in c/linux, but the vast majority of people don’t want to start with a terminal and build their system out from there. Hell, even the vast majority of linux users don’t, so then it’s just nitpicking where the line of which defaults should be included is.
I am that person now. Your example about Reminders is basically exactly why. I used to try and then pay for a ton of services to cover reminders/todos because I too was looking for that perfect app that worked just the way I wanted, and really the only thing I got out of it was making a slightly different trade off that I was then paying for in quite a lot of cases. it also happens that nearly all of those apps were closing gaps with the reasons I moved away from them to begin with. For the average user, they likely won’t even look much past the defaults because the defaults are actually pretty good, and so if you don’t have an advanced use case, your needs are covered. Like, I used Trello and Todoist for kanban for larger projects and it’s now native in Reminders.
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Well, Linus at least agrees with you. I just watch a talk he gave the other day in which he described one of the biggest problems with Linux desktop being that the distros can’t even decide on a default package manager/way to package applications and all of the difficulties that creates.
It’s funny because even for simple stuff like when I used to update my Plex install manually I’d go to the Plex website, and the list is:
Windows
Mac
Linux: Debian x 32 Bit Debian x.1 32 Bit
Debian x 64 bit
Debian x.1 64 Bit
Fedora …
Ubuntu …
Cent …
and god help you if you’re not on one of those versions or you don’t use one of those distros.
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I would say it applies a lot harder to iOS than macOS which continues to be certified UNIX and you can go hog wild on the CLI if you really want to.
One of the biggest Linux nerds I know is a mac enthusiast because it is certified UNIX.
iOS is indeed pretty locked down.
Is this as true as it was 5 to 10 years ago?
I feel like I’ve seen TestFlight used a fair amount lately.
I have no clue what the jailbreak community is like anymore. I’ve heard Cydia isn’t really a thing with newer versions of iOS so I have no idea how lockdown iPhones are anymore.
I’m not sure, but even with jailbreaking, iOS isn’t certified UNIX. It doesn’t have a command line shell built-in that you can access easily like macOS.
So I really meant “locked down” in the sense that you’re not getting easy access to command line interface that can access system files without jailbreaking/rooting first.
I do think jailbreaking and rooting is easier than it used to be, but I don’t mess with iOS devices much.
I know so many web developers who use MacOS, and I think it must be because of the command line. It’s like Linux is still too scary, even for professionals.
I feel like I’m getting more and more on a limb using Linux as a dev. I’m working on a Linux only product and yet I’m the only one not on OS X and all the rest of them have to jump through hoops to get things to work, and can’t run our system locally like I can. My last job was the same except 2 of us used Linux.
I can’t even work out what they’re getting out of it apart from the hardware. But when I tell them that developing from Linux is easy and comfortable they don’t believe me.
You can run Linux on Macs, so they don’t get that either
Most web developers I’ve worked with do not know whay a computer is, unfortunately.
macOS has Unix under the hood, but has supported business software
This, and the general business ecosystem. Few companies even ship hardware with Linux support, especially at big business scale. I didn’t even see an option from Dell any longer, Lenovo has one machine it looks like, so you’d be going for something like System76 which operates no where close to the same scale.
professionals are more likely to prefer a locked down easy environment because of it’s lack of variation the same way one would prefer a bare cli debian over a full featured distribution of even windows with all it’s features and trinkets that can eat time away from the main task, mac os is bare and easy like a desk with nothing but a pen and clipboard, pretty bad if you want to fix a ventilator but perfect if you just want to write
There are lots of Linux distros like that, though. You could just get a cheap laptop and put Pop! OS on it for a fraction of the price.