• Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    22 hours ago

    This is not correct. Rights are a construct of human law that can be traced to a series of foundational legal documents and structures of government processes. It evolved out of the privileges given by royalty to variable degrees of their subjects into the ideas foundational to liberalism and other political philosophies of humanitarian ethics which established an idea of aspects of human life and choices that were sacrosanct from government interference or entitlements citizens have in their systems. You have probably heard of the phrase “God given rights” but that is more or less just a saying that came from the concept of rights becoming such a social norm that one considers them the air we breathe.

    Religious individuals, from personal experience, tend to have an issue grocking the idea that ethics are not dependent on the idea of a God outright telling you what is good or bad - secular ethics isn’t about what gets you punished or not by an authority. It determines what is correct based off of different rubrics based on the individual school of ethics one applies. More often ethical systems, including modern law systems, are based out of some idea of empathy towards harm and struggles in life divorced entirely from the idea of punishment by a divine being.

    Rights are also place dependent because they are built into the law system of whatever country you are in. If you are in China for instance you do not have a right to free speech, the Government can censor you or exact retribution for trying to publish or communicate certain things. Like any law though just cuz it’s on the books doesn’t mean it’s in play. Russia technically has a right to free speech but their courts basically ignore infringement on it when it suits them to do so.

    There is an idea of an international code of human rights… But really it is still considered a lower priority than the idea of individual nation sovereignty so protection of those rights is toothless and it is effectively more like gold star guidelines put forward by committee than actual rules.

    • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      22 hours ago

      It evolved out of the privileges given by royalty to variable degrees of their subjects into the ideas foundational to liberalism

      Seems like liberalism is falling out of favor these days.

      • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 hours ago

        Well yes… Because liberalism if very forward in enabling a lot of personal property rights and is generally in tension with socialism. We’ve had an awfully long period of treating liberalism as the air we breathe.

        But whenever we talk about liberalism it is important to remember it’s a whole package deal of a host of distinct concepts that were basically come up with by the handful of people who claimed the school of thought. It encompasses such vastly differing sources as the spirit of the French Revolutionaries declaring the Rights of Men AND the class obsessed, monarchy friendly, property rights forward English intelligencia. Liberalism holds within it a multitude of characters and we are seeing some of the design flaws now but in it’s day it was a radical dissolution of power of the state from an authoritarian norm that is alien to our modern sensibilities.

        Liberalism has become a dirty word by virtue of it basically being compatible with a variable degree of capitalism and we are in an age of unchecked capitalism. Personally I think a balance of heavy socialism and very moderated liberalism to keep power from tipping too much towards state consolidation is actually pretty stable. But I think people like the emotional fire of the Communists writers because it’s evocative and because throwing everything in the trash and starting over speaks to the anger of feeling disenfranchised.

        • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 hours ago

          Liberalism holds within it a multitude of characters and we are seeing some of the design flaws now but in it’s day it was a radical dissolution of power of the state from an authoritarian norm that is alien to our modern sensibilities.

          Yes, liberalism has an important historical significance. It also has a specific historical context. Unfortunately, many academics and intellectuals came to see it as a permanent, natural state; as the only paradigm that should, or even can, exist.

          I think many people of today underestimate how popular the idea of “the end of history” was after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The idea that liberal “democracy” and capitalism represented the last and only sociopolitical/socioeconomic system humanity would ever need - that it was the culmination of all human history - was adopted by nearly every elite member of society. History was over, there was no alternative, and we shouldn’t try to develop humanity any further. Not only was any significant change unnecessary and undesirable, it was harmful and destructive. Human civilization had to stay in a permanent state of arrested development essentially forever.

          This thinking was not restricted to just a vocal minority, it was the consensus, and with Marxism-Leninism defeated, there was no ideological opposition. Liberalism (neoliberalism, liberal democracy, capitalism) was the unquestioned champion and there were no more challengers.

          But history had not ended, and no paradigm, however dominant, can remain in place permanently. Change is inevitable, humanity and civilization continue to evolve, and as new historical and material conditions emerge, so too will new ideas, just as liberalism did in its time and place.

          Humanity is facing incredible challenges, and I’m not sure liberalism has all the tools necessary to adequately address all of them. Maybe no one ideology does. Maybe we need to take a post modern approach and look at all the different ideas and philosophies as tools in a tool box, and simply use whichever one we think might work best to address a specific problem. Then again, maybe humans don’t work that way, maybe the patchwork approach of “just do whatever works” is incompatible with a natural human desire to have a grand, unified, overarching ideological paradigm in place.

          Regardless, I think liberalism’s ideological hegemony is rapidly falling apart. I fear it will be replaced by something worse, and by “worse” I mean even less sufficient for addressing the many challenges facing humanity today. I think that’s happening because liberalism became so entrenched, so rigid and so immovable. I just hope it’s not too late to come up with something better.