• qyron@sopuli.xyz
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    9 hours ago

    So… We manage to master space travel. We manage to master interstellar travel. We eventually find a planet with suitable environment for sustaining our species. And we just overlook it.

    Can someone explain me the reasoning behind this?

    Sci-fi to the side, there are more minerals available - readily - on asteroids and barren planets than anywhere else. Why go hopping around looking for habitable planets, to the reason of 1 out of who knows how many, to then strip mine it?

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      The resource being extracted on the avatar planet was unobtanium.

      It was only available on that planet, precisely so intelligent people like you can’t say “why not mine barren rocks instead”?

      • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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        9 hours ago

        There are exactly zero minerals available inside planets that are unavailable on asteroids.

        Sci-fi will be sci-fi but can we go back to the time it was at least well thought? Can’t hurt. If the objective of the movie was to make social criticism, it didn’t need to go to such lenghts.

        And it was a boring movie; failed to captivate me.

          • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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            2 hours ago

            That depends. Although massive deforestation throughout the planet, tree farms are a thing. So…

            But haul wood over who knows what expanses of space? It would be cheaper to build greenhouses on barren planets and moons. The biggest challenge would probably be to prevent the oxygen in those enclosed habitats to eat away the building materials.

            I remember following the advances on an experiment, during the 90’s, where a team of scientists designed and built a fully self contained habitat, with only plants inside. I think the objective was to measure if the plants could/would survive in very limited resources conditions. Well, the plants survived. After an initial shock, the plants self regulated and the habitat stabilized into a fully enclosed ecosystem. Things became weird when the oxygen levels rose to a point where the ciment of the walls started to come apart. They had to hastily coat the walls with very thick rubber paint to prevent more damage.

            • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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              26 minutes ago

              You know the point I’m making though: there are indeed precious resources that can’t be mined from asteroids. It is not inconceivable that there are organic compounds out there with unique properties that can’t simply be made in a lab (e.g. ancient wood properties compared to new forest) and exist in a state that is economical for easy extraction.

              • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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                3 minutes ago

                It’s not inconceivable but I will insist on the point that technology is the right tool to solve such issues.

                It was inconceivable a few decades ago - even a couple of years ago! - several medical advances that are today used routinely.

                It is a fun theoretical discussion to entertain but we would reach no real conclusion.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          You’re intelligent. Or at least, well read/educated.

          I didn’t say it was a good plot-device. The entire movie was hamfisted from the world building through the dialog, the character development, and those hamfists evolved into bulldozers to bring the moral home.

          The only thing it had going for it was the CGI… which was obsequious.

          Regardless, it’s their fictional world. They designed it to be stupid and boring so they could make some sort of moral superiority bullshit statement about capitalism while grossing 2+ billion.

          Also, I’m just gonna say it. It wasn’t even sci fi. sure, sure. it had ships and stuff. but that’s not what makes sci fi sci fi.

          • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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            6 hours ago

            Usually, at this point, I would say even a broken clock is right twice a day, but I’m trying to get accostumed to receive a compliment, so I’ll instead say thank you for those kind words. And that we agree.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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          9 hours ago

          There are exactly zero minerals available inside planets that are unavailable on asteroids.

          Crystallised urea

          • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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            9 hours ago

            Nice to cross paths with you again!

            I’ll grant that but what use for crystalized urea is there? Urea I know a few. And if we already know how to cultivate diamonds and other artificial gems, why bother mining for that?

            • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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              9 hours ago

              Drag was making an allegorical point. Perhaps Unobtanium results from an organic process. In the second movie, the capitalists are killing whales for a substance in their brains that makes people immortal. Can’t find that on an asteroid.

              • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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                9 hours ago

                We can save mental effort and just go for the Dune series at this point. What is the point in that? In considering the advances in modern chemistry, there are ever few organic compounds that can not be synthesized.

                I fall back to my original thought: is well thought sci-fi so hard to achieve nowadays? If seems there is a fixation about misery and destruction nowadays.

                • frezik@midwest.social
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                  4 hours ago

                  Dune is a universe where computers are severely limited. The ability to synthesize organic chemicals may be limited by that alone.

                  IIRC, the Tleilaxu do figure out how to produce spice artificially in their Axlotl tanks, but those are another example of Dune getting weirder and more disturbing as it goes.

                • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                  7 hours ago

                  I fall back to my original thought: is well thought sci-fi so hard to achieve nowadays? If seems there is a fixation about misery and destruction nowadays.

                  considering that mass media will slap a space ship into anything and call it “Science Fiction”… yes, actually. Because they’re idiots who will only copy what’s already been done because it’s a reliable way to make money.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                    6 hours ago

                    That said, even the masters will fall back on nonsense to make a point. Asimov had coal-powered spacecraft in the Foundation Trilogy to show how technology was slipping backward as if that makes any sense whatsoever.

                • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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                  8 hours ago

                  Avatar does have some good science fiction like the idea of a planetary hivemind being worshipped as a god. The Na’vi religion is literally true, it just seems false to humans who don’t know anything. That’s very different to Dune, where the Fremen religion is true because people like Paul’s mum make it true.

                  • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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                    8 hours ago

                    I’ll grant that waffer thin idea as a good attempt of putting something akin to good sci-fi into an otherwise solely for visuals work, although I disagree with the notion of deifying something that is tangible, as in the setting put forward in the movie.

                    And I mentioned Dune because of the immortality mention. The spice is also irreplaceable and unique, produced only in a single planet, through a rather complex organic process, harvested at great risk and cost, then to be synthesized by the tons.

                    That was good sci-fi, with sound social and religious criticism in it.

      • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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        10 hours ago

        You realized I just opted for having a divergent view on the subject, right?

        • Jack@slrpnk.net
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          10 hours ago

          It seems more like intentionally missing the main point of the comic.