I blame them most of all. They saw what was at stake and still demanded perfection on every issue, nitpicked, sowed division, and acted like we were having a totally different election where “not Trump” was an actual entry on the ballot (it wasn’t).
At least the Trump voters were honest about their intentions.
And I’ll never forgive the pundits and social media commenters who derailed conversations about how the Dems tone-deaf campaigning (e.g. promising the most lethal military in the world, Liz Cheney, etc.) was going to make some voters stay home and risked losing the election, very much like how the Dems blew elections in 2016 and 2004. Whining about alienating your own voters is like a football team whining about their opponents scoring too many points when they should be firing their head coach.
e; and before it even comes up, I voted straight ticket Dem and have done so my whole life because there is nothing I want more than the total collapse of the Republican party
My pet theory is actually that Bernie helped, rather than gutted HRC/Biden. Through his primary campaign so many young people became convinced to vote Democrat. Even if Berniebros were disappointed, most of them still voted for a Democrat in the general election.
One thing you could really see in this election was that confused progressives moved to Trump (or stayed home) after a successful misinformation campaign. Would have been far harder for that misinformation to find a home, if progressive voters had already voted in the Democratic primary, and their preferred candidate had pointed them to the winner of the primary.
You could even see this on the GOP side. Because Hailey supported Trump, almost no GOP voters defected in the general election which ultimately resulted in the complete failure of the Democratic strategy.
TLDR: primaries with a wide variety of choices are extremely helpful in the General election.
“And I’ll never forgive the pundits and social media commenters who derailed conversations about how the Dems tone-deaf campaigning”
“Whining about alienating your own voters is like a football team whining about their opponents scoring too many points when they should be firing their head coach.”
At some point in-fighting doesn’t help and you need to commit to the game plan. Getting Biden to drop out was obviously the right choice. Whining about Dems being too moderate is just making everyone discontent. For anyone who was building up anger towards the Dems instead of advocating for decency, fuck ALL THE WAY off.
And they’re still trying to justify it, because preventing this shit wasn’t exciting enough or something. I don’t give the Democrats a pass on fucking the dog this cycle, but the voters knew what was on the table and choose not to vote against it and that’s so much worse imo. They let one or two issues condemn entire groups of marginalized people, and still cry BoTh SiDeS.
Damn, I wonder what it was about the outreach to these people that failed. The Democratic attitude of addressing issues by minimizing or dismissing voter’s legitimate issues couldn’t possibly depress voter turnout. /s
Well gee, looks like you really showed those neolibs what for!
And as I said before, one or two issues doomed all the issues. Some people can’t be bothered to give a fuck about long term consequences because they’re not excited enough about the party or some other excuse. I hope non-voters are happy with the outcome they voted for.
ETA: you can think I’m a neolibs all you want to make you feel better about the awful outcome, but I can sleep well at night knowing that I tried to keep things from getting worse by CoMpRoMiSiNg My MoRaLs and voted for the Democrats because I didn’t want more genocide and I care about the people around me.
I voted Kamala, but she and Biden let me down. It wasn’t one or two issues, it was a total breakdown of her campaign communication strategy. When you look at what apolitical idiot voters got from the media, it’s a wonder she didn’t lose by more.
Part of that communication failure was in not taking serious issues seriously. People aren’t going to get off the couch for someone who summarily dismisses their legitimate outrage.
That’s a false narrative. The people who stayed home weren’t the ones “demanding” anything. The ones making demands were almost entirely the ones who understood that other people would stay home. Your attacking people like me who were outraged by the actions of the Biden administration and the incompetency of the Kamala campaign, both because of the horrors they represent, and because we knew the vote would be suppressed. I voted for Kamala, but she let me down.
The people who stay home aren’t the left wing activists, they are the apolitical schmucks who don’t even consider voting until the week or day of the election.
If the left ever actually abandons the Democrats, they will never win another election again. Leftwing activists are the only activists the Democrats have. What do you think the Democratic ground game would look like without activists?
As a self appointed representative of left wing activism, no, fuck you. You did this.
I am a leftist. I hate the DNC. I hate apolitical dimwits. And I hate virtue voters and protest voters. I canvassed for democrats in a delusional bid to maintain my sanity this election and I will never do that again. I don’t care if the democrats ever “win again” now. It doesn’t matter you imbecile, we’re doomed.
I don’t fathom how you don’t understand this. Its fucking over. Are you not paying attention?
You fundamentally misunderstand why I used to care and now don’t. I don’t believe in virtue ethics, I don’t even believe in free will.
Before it mattered if they won because it’d (maybe) prevent doom. Now I don’t see a way out. Its consequences that matter and we’re now signed up for the worst consequences regardless.
I don’t fathom how you don’t understand this. Its fucking over. Are you not paying attention?
This is why I wanted people to be able to see beyond the possibility (or probability) of electing Trump. It seems to me the entire left side of the country (and even some of the apolitical people) bet the entire house on Trump not winning again, and when he won again they have absolutely no answer for it.
It’s also what I found so frustrating about the “Genocide Joe” gang, because they were pretending the entire time that it wouldn’t be such a big deal if Trump got elected…that we would somehow be able to magically have a revolution or something and be able to handle a full-on fascist slide…that there would be a response from outside of the electoral and political system that would allow them to accomplish their purported goals if people just didn’t vote.
Well, we’re here. He’s elected. He’s in power. What the fuck is this supposed response and when is it starting?
Fucking crazy to me that so many people left of center are fighting over who to blame on their side when the people who voted for it are right there and in power.
Such a reactionary take. There’s a more than good chance the election was manipulated through voter suppression and purges. If we continue to look to the past and blame each other for failing to prevent Trump, the fascists will continue to use that to their advantage. There will be many Trump voters that were misinformed that want to resist, we must welcome the support. To get through this and move forward positively, we must look past grievances and work together.
It also assumes the outcome of our election was ever going to be fair, as if the captured Supreme Court wouldn’t have intervened in a close election to give Trump the presidency anyway. Harris needed a landslide victory to have a chance to avoid the election getting stolen, and by August it was clear she could not get one.
Emotionally I’m not inclined to place another iota of effort into politics. I feel like I’ve wasted 20 years of my life obsessing over it.
And with that I have zero desire to forgive anyone even slightly responsible for Trump’s victory. I don’t owe anyone shit, I did not choose to be born.
I have met people who voted for trump because they didn’t like Hillary, or didn’t like biden and “didn’t realize what he’d do” and far, far too many people he targets like immigrants who support him, for a Myriad of reasons, but many, saying he wont target us because we supported him or “He’s not going to target us, just ‘insert country here’”. The leopards earing faces voters are very real and have put so much on themselves and everyone around them.
That excuse runs hollow this time around. He said exactly what he was going to do and is doing it. None of his is a surprise except to especially ignorant.
Yeah! God forbid we keep Democracy running for a few more years while we all get our collective asses into gear and start tackling issues one at a time instead of being tugged to and fro from issue to issue!
It’s been “a few more years” every election of my life. Nobody was ever going to take collective action to actually change the Democrat party, and the Republicans have been working for this endgame the whole time. The last two decades have been a slow motion car-crash.
I feel the mad in you, I sincerely do, but when the whole ocean is moving in a certain way due to underlying currents, it is incorrect to place the blame on any individual droplet, for none of them individually are responsible for it or have the power to control or alter it. Understand that the droplets themselves are moving because of the said currents. The best you can do is accept reality and plan your course ahead. The mad only burns you from inside without solving any problem.
PS: to everyone commenting below me, now mad at me -
everyone is accountable for their individual actions and I’m not absolving anyone of their individual responsibilities.
I’m not telling you that you shouldn’t feel the mad, rather that I get the mad that you feel. I’m just as mad as you.
After being mad at all your friends and family for say about a decade, you come to realize that most of them are simple minds susceptible to propaganda, and that propaganda works, and that it works because it appeals to the human instinct of individualism (incorrectly overriding collectivism) using tools like fear and anger. We need to rise over our own anger and other instincts to see all this so we can better move forward.
it is incorrect to place the blame on any individual droplet
No, they each made the individual choice to back a fascist.
Absolving them of that responsibility is the same infantilizing condescension that liberal media has been pushing for a decade now.
You don’t get to tell me how to feel about those who made the people I love unsafe, and I don’t owe a single one of those fascist bastards forgiveness.
He’s not blaming individuals, he’s blaming a collective. A conglomerate of willfully ignorant, and often hateful, voters. So yes, don’t personally attribute this to Bill So-and-so, but if you see Bill fly a confederate flag and talk about trans kids, you know Bill is part of the collective and you can go ahead and add some blame on his pile.
Nobody understands population statistics… Your entire post is correct at a higher level than those shouting individualism, but they cannot comprehend the aggregate consequences or truth.
Nobody is saying your emotions are invalid. Your feelings are very valid. Here’s a hug from me to you to prove the point (I hope it counts, lol). All I’m saying is that anger is instinctive & it clouds our judgement (like we literally can’t process any other thoughts while angry). If you calmly think about it, you instantly reacted and insulted me and other poster above you, you put us both in the ‘other team’, while we were both in your team all along. That my friend is anger leading to more individualism (you alone in your room) over collectivism (same team).
That is the exact same weakness that is exploited by those doing the propaganda. And that is why we all need to rise over it.
I wasn’t looking for advice, and so I don’t really care what you have to say, which is why I deleted my comment to debate bro above.
Find another mission.
Fuck every fascist forever, and I don’t need the “tut tuts” of moderates. Anger is a very useful motivating emotion, and I’m never letting this fire burn out.
Intentionally so, so spare me more of your condescension.
I’ll never forgive the people who worked to put this fascist in power again.
Or the people who sat at home and let it happen.
I blame them most of all. They saw what was at stake and still demanded perfection on every issue, nitpicked, sowed division, and acted like we were having a totally different election where “not Trump” was an actual entry on the ballot (it wasn’t).
At least the Trump voters were honest about their intentions.
And I’ll never forgive the pundits and social media commenters who derailed conversations about how the Dems tone-deaf campaigning (e.g. promising the most lethal military in the world, Liz Cheney, etc.) was going to make some voters stay home and risked losing the election, very much like how the Dems blew elections in 2016 and 2004. Whining about alienating your own voters is like a football team whining about their opponents scoring too many points when they should be firing their head coach.
e; and before it even comes up, I voted straight ticket Dem and have done so my whole life because there is nothing I want more than the total collapse of the Republican party
My pet theory is actually that Bernie helped, rather than gutted HRC/Biden. Through his primary campaign so many young people became convinced to vote Democrat. Even if Berniebros were disappointed, most of them still voted for a Democrat in the general election.
One thing you could really see in this election was that confused progressives moved to Trump (or stayed home) after a successful misinformation campaign. Would have been far harder for that misinformation to find a home, if progressive voters had already voted in the Democratic primary, and their preferred candidate had pointed them to the winner of the primary.
You could even see this on the GOP side. Because Hailey supported Trump, almost no GOP voters defected in the general election which ultimately resulted in the complete failure of the Democratic strategy.
TLDR: primaries with a wide variety of choices are extremely helpful in the General election.
You can be repulsed at the voters & the top democrats at the same time. There is no rule saying you can’t hate them both.
“And I’ll never forgive the pundits and social media commenters who derailed conversations about how the Dems tone-deaf campaigning”
“Whining about alienating your own voters is like a football team whining about their opponents scoring too many points when they should be firing their head coach.”
At some point in-fighting doesn’t help and you need to commit to the game plan. Getting Biden to drop out was obviously the right choice. Whining about Dems being too moderate is just making everyone discontent. For anyone who was building up anger towards the Dems instead of advocating for decency, fuck ALL THE WAY off.
And they’re still trying to justify it, because preventing this shit wasn’t exciting enough or something. I don’t give the Democrats a pass on fucking the dog this cycle, but the voters knew what was on the table and choose not to vote against it and that’s so much worse imo. They let one or two issues condemn entire groups of marginalized people, and still cry BoTh SiDeS.
Damn, I wonder what it was about the outreach to these people that failed. The Democratic attitude of addressing issues by minimizing or dismissing voter’s legitimate issues couldn’t possibly depress voter turnout. /s
Fucking neoliberal brain-rot.
Well gee, looks like you really showed those neolibs what for!
And as I said before, one or two issues doomed all the issues. Some people can’t be bothered to give a fuck about long term consequences because they’re not excited enough about the party or some other excuse. I hope non-voters are happy with the outcome they voted for.
ETA: you can think I’m a neolibs all you want to make you feel better about the awful outcome, but I can sleep well at night knowing that I tried to keep things from getting worse by CoMpRoMiSiNg My MoRaLs and voted for the Democrats because I didn’t want more genocide and I care about the people around me.
I voted Kamala, but she and Biden let me down. It wasn’t one or two issues, it was a total breakdown of her campaign communication strategy. When you look at what apolitical idiot voters got from the media, it’s a wonder she didn’t lose by more.
Part of that communication failure was in not taking serious issues seriously. People aren’t going to get off the couch for someone who summarily dismisses their legitimate outrage.
That’s a false narrative. The people who stayed home weren’t the ones “demanding” anything. The ones making demands were almost entirely the ones who understood that other people would stay home. Your attacking people like me who were outraged by the actions of the Biden administration and the incompetency of the Kamala campaign, both because of the horrors they represent, and because we knew the vote would be suppressed. I voted for Kamala, but she let me down.
The people who stay home aren’t the left wing activists, they are the apolitical schmucks who don’t even consider voting until the week or day of the election.
That’s not an honest evaluation of reality. Its both leftwing activists and apolitical schmucks. And FUCK THEM BOTH.
If the left ever actually abandons the Democrats, they will never win another election again. Leftwing activists are the only activists the Democrats have. What do you think the Democratic ground game would look like without activists?
As a self appointed representative of left wing activism, no, fuck you. You did this.
I am a leftist. I hate the DNC. I hate apolitical dimwits. And I hate virtue voters and protest voters. I canvassed for democrats in a delusional bid to maintain my sanity this election and I will never do that again. I don’t care if the democrats ever “win again” now. It doesn’t matter you imbecile, we’re doomed.
I don’t fathom how you don’t understand this. Its fucking over. Are you not paying attention?
So, what you’re saying is that they got there ahead of you. I guess we do become what we hate.
Not while the Earth still spins and my heart is still beating. It’s not over, it just got hard.
You fundamentally misunderstand why I used to care and now don’t. I don’t believe in virtue ethics, I don’t even believe in free will.
Before it mattered if they won because it’d (maybe) prevent doom. Now I don’t see a way out. Its consequences that matter and we’re now signed up for the worst consequences regardless.
This is why I wanted people to be able to see beyond the possibility (or probability) of electing Trump. It seems to me the entire left side of the country (and even some of the apolitical people) bet the entire house on Trump not winning again, and when he won again they have absolutely no answer for it.
It’s also what I found so frustrating about the “Genocide Joe” gang, because they were pretending the entire time that it wouldn’t be such a big deal if Trump got elected…that we would somehow be able to magically have a revolution or something and be able to handle a full-on fascist slide…that there would be a response from outside of the electoral and political system that would allow them to accomplish their purported goals if people just didn’t vote.
Well, we’re here. He’s elected. He’s in power. What the fuck is this supposed response and when is it starting?
I definitely blame those the cast their vote for Trump the most, because they literally voted for him. I blame non voters a close second.
Fucking crazy to me that so many people left of center are fighting over who to blame on their side when the people who voted for it are right there and in power.
At least there’s no more genocide going on anywhere in the world.
And he singlehandedly stopped the war in Ukraine on day one like he said
I’m pretty sure stores are paying you to take eggs now, too.
We’re all so rich now, my landlord just gifted me my apartment.
The only people beneath Trump supporters in this society are people that didn’t bother to vote. They are scum.
Top names on that list are Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and the Democratic political consultants who destroyed her campaign.
Yes they fucked up too
What do you expect us non-Americans to do about it?
I was hoping you’d assume that I am talking about the people who were able to vote who sat at home.
All I can suggest for the rest of you is to buckle up
I don’t think they were referring to you buddy.
Such a reactionary take. There’s a more than good chance the election was manipulated through voter suppression and purges. If we continue to look to the past and blame each other for failing to prevent Trump, the fascists will continue to use that to their advantage. There will be many Trump voters that were misinformed that want to resist, we must welcome the support. To get through this and move forward positively, we must look past grievances and work together.
It also assumes the outcome of our election was ever going to be fair, as if the captured Supreme Court wouldn’t have intervened in a close election to give Trump the presidency anyway. Harris needed a landslide victory to have a chance to avoid the election getting stolen, and by August it was clear she could not get one.
There must be a path to redemption. It’s there for anyone who wants to take it.
While this is true, that path to redemption has to be taken first. Until then, my grievances stand firm.
Yeah it’s a reactionary take. A reaction to the chucklefucks who sat at home.
Emotionally I’m not inclined to place another iota of effort into politics. I feel like I’ve wasted 20 years of my life obsessing over it.
And with that I have zero desire to forgive anyone even slightly responsible for Trump’s victory. I don’t owe anyone shit, I did not choose to be born.
I am the exact same.
8 years, as I only started caring about politics when I saw Trump stamping his little feet over all of the progress we had made after Obama.
Now, I’m ready to watch this shit burn. Fuck it. I’ve got my one way ticket ready for when it truly goes to hell.
I have met people who voted for trump because they didn’t like Hillary, or didn’t like biden and “didn’t realize what he’d do” and far, far too many people he targets like immigrants who support him, for a Myriad of reasons, but many, saying he wont target us because we supported him or “He’s not going to target us, just ‘insert country here’”. The leopards earing faces voters are very real and have put so much on themselves and everyone around them.
That excuse runs hollow this time around. He said exactly what he was going to do and is doing it. None of his is a surprise except to especially ignorant.
Well we couldn’t have bLuEmAGA in power after all! That would have been worse!/s
Yeah! God forbid we keep Democracy running for a few more years while we all get our collective asses into gear and start tackling issues one at a time instead of being tugged to and fro from issue to issue!
One can dream, at least.
It’s been “a few more years” every election of my life. Nobody was ever going to take collective action to actually change the Democrat party, and the Republicans have been working for this endgame the whole time. The last two decades have been a slow motion car-crash.
awww. that’s gonna hurt their fee fees. well, i sure am glad we figured out how to stop fascism.
Oh, I forgot every single comment has to be about how to stop fascism!
Glad you told us how in your post.
Thanks for gracing us with such a smart comment. Sounds like I touched a nerve.
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I feel the mad in you, I sincerely do, but when the whole ocean is moving in a certain way due to underlying currents, it is incorrect to place the blame on any individual droplet, for none of them individually are responsible for it or have the power to control or alter it. Understand that the droplets themselves are moving because of the said currents. The best you can do is accept reality and plan your course ahead. The mad only burns you from inside without solving any problem.
PS: to everyone commenting below me, now mad at me -
No, they each made the individual choice to back a fascist.
Absolving them of that responsibility is the same infantilizing condescension that liberal media has been pushing for a decade now.
You don’t get to tell me how to feel about those who made the people I love unsafe, and I don’t owe a single one of those fascist bastards forgiveness.
He’s not blaming individuals, he’s blaming a collective. A conglomerate of willfully ignorant, and often hateful, voters. So yes, don’t personally attribute this to Bill So-and-so, but if you see Bill fly a confederate flag and talk about trans kids, you know Bill is part of the collective and you can go ahead and add some blame on his pile.
Nobody understands population statistics… Your entire post is correct at a higher level than those shouting individualism, but they cannot comprehend the aggregate consequences or truth.
deleted by creator
Nobody is saying your emotions are invalid. Your feelings are very valid. Here’s a hug from me to you to prove the point (I hope it counts, lol). All I’m saying is that anger is instinctive & it clouds our judgement (like we literally can’t process any other thoughts while angry). If you calmly think about it, you instantly reacted and insulted me and other poster above you, you put us both in the ‘other team’, while we were both in your team all along. That my friend is anger leading to more individualism (you alone in your room) over collectivism (same team). That is the exact same weakness that is exploited by those doing the propaganda. And that is why we all need to rise over it.
I wasn’t looking for advice, and so I don’t really care what you have to say, which is why I deleted my comment to debate bro above.
Find another mission.
Fuck every fascist forever, and I don’t need the “tut tuts” of moderates. Anger is a very useful motivating emotion, and I’m never letting this fire burn out.
Intentionally so, so spare me more of your condescension.
If only the Nazis at the Nuremberg trials had you as a lawyer. They were only following orders, after all.