Self-driving in general has been overhyped by grifter tech bros like Elon and really shows the current limits of ML. Today, ML models are basically fuzzy, probabilistic functions that map inputs to outputs and are not capable of actual reasoning. There is a long tail of scenarios where a self-driving car will not generalize properly (i.e., will kill people). Throwing increasingly more data and compute at it won’t suddenly make it capable of reasoning like a human. Like other ML use cases, self-driving is a cool concept that can be put to good use under the right conditions, and can even operate mostly without human supervision. However, anyone claiming it’s safe to let today’s “self-driving” cars shuttle humans around at high speeds with no additional safeguards in place either has an unrealistic understanding of the tech or is a sociopath.
Coming here because I saw how downvoted this post was on Reddit lol. I love that it’s triggering the Elon fanboys.
Maybe it was downvoted because of Mormon weirdo Mark Rober and not the content itself?
Based on comments it’s the Tesla stans.
Yeah don’t get me wrong I’m not a Mark Rober fan and I don’t think he’s making this video because he’s anti Elon even, he’s just making it because it’s popular to hate Elon and Tesla at the moment. It happens to be a good thing, but unfortunately, I think Mark isn’t doing it out of virtue.
Ahah Tesla is like a 2000s knock-off of good existing technology
Thank god it doesn’t have LIDAR sensors, much cheaper to repair the front this way
Tap for spoiler
/s
I’m bearish on TSLA, but still saw there’s some controversy surrounding his testing methodology and shortcomings in that video. Was talked about a bit on Philip DeFranco.
IMHO, at the end of the day, all of those vehicles have emergency braking systems. It doesn’t matter if he was in FSD, Autopilot, or manual control, AED (Automatic Emergency Braking) should’ve stopped or slowed the vehicle.
Props to Benn Jordan for doing this a year ago on a slightly lower budget.
Bonus deep dive about using LiDAR to map out space mountain
I wouldn’t exactly call that a deep dive.
The channel is for 5-year-olds, they would drown in a real deep dive
Easy: „If you want to learn more check out our second channel where we explain in depth how we approached this topic, the technology used and what we learned.“
💯
Im shocked Disney isnt thowing a fit over that. Their legal team must be busy this week.
Getting into a legal battle with an immensely popular YouTuber would probably cost them a lot more in bad publicity than they would reasonably make from a lawsuit. I guarantee someone at Disney is doing or already has done the calculations.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/article/2024/aug/15/disney-wrongful-death-lawsuit-dismissal
Disney is not scared of lawyering up.
Oh I’m not disagreeing with you there. In this case, they were being brought in as a defendant for a wrongful death case. The probably realized there was some potential PR damage from considering invoking the Disney+ terms (rightfully so, fuck them), but I’m sure they weighed that against the liability of the wrongful death suit.
In the case of the video, I’d be surprised if they went after Robert, because I don’t see them gaining more from this case than they would lose in publicity. I could be wrong though, perhaps we’ll see!
Insane that the telsa drives into spaces its unsure of. So dangerous
What makes you think it’s unsure?
True its not unsure but it should be. If it doesn’t have good viability it should have slowed down or disengaged auto pilot.
In fog it doesn’t know it doesn’t have good visibility.
Maybe it is sure but that doesn’t make it accurate
I’ve been shit-talking Elon’s (absolutely boneheaded) decision to intentionally eschew system-redundancy in systems that are critically responsible for human life for years now. Since he never missed an opportunity to show off his swastikar in MANY of his previous videos, I had assumed Mark Rober was a sponsored member of the alt-right intellectual dark web. But I’m pleasantly surprised to see that this video is a solid (WELL-justified) smear. 👌
I had assumed Mark Rober was a sponsored member of the alt-right intellectual dark web.
He is.
I am not a fan of Tesla/Elon but are you sure that no human driver would fall for this?
That is a completely legitimate question. That you are downvoted says a lot about the current state of Lemmy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the Musk hate, but it looks like a nuanced discussion on topics where Nazi-Elon is involved is currently not possibe.
All the other cars he tested stopped just fine.
Part of the problem is the question of who is at fault if an autonomous car crashes. If a human falls for this and crashes, it’s their fault. They are responsible for their damages and the damages caused by their negligence. We expect a human driver to be able to handle any road hazards. If a self driving car crashes who’s fault is it? Tesla? They say their self driving is a beta test so drivers must remain attentive at all times. The human passenger? Most people would expect a self driving car would drive itself. If it crashes, I would expect the people that made the faulty software to be at fault, but they are doing everything they can to shift the blame off of themselves. If a self driving car crashes, they expect the owner to eat the cost.
As soon as we have hard data from real world use and FSD is safer than the average human, it would be unethical to not solve the regulatory and legal issues and apply it on a larger scale to save human lives.
If a human driver causes a crash, the insurance pays. Why shouldn’t they if a computer caused the crash, which drives safer overall, if only by let’s say 10%.
Lets assume that a human driver would fall for it, for sake of argument.
Would that make it a good idea to potentially run over a kid just because a human would have as well, when we have a decent option to do better than human senses?
What makes you assume that a vision based system performs worse than the average human? Or that it can’t be 20 times safer?
I think the main reason to go vision-only is the software complexity of merging mixed sensor data. Radar or Lidar alone also have their limitations.
I wish it was a different company or that Musk would sell Tesla. But I think they are the closest to reaching full autonomy. Let’s see how it goes when FSD launches this year.
Somehow other car companies are managing to merge data from multiple sources fine. Tesla even used to do it, but stopped to shave a few dollars in their costs.
In terms of assuming there would be safety concerns, well this video clearly demonstrates that adding lidar avoids three scenarios, at least two of them realistic. As I said my standard is not “human driver” but safest options as demonstrated.
Which other system can drive autonomous in potentially any environment without relying on map data?
If merging data from different sensors increases complexity by factor 5, it’s just not worth it.
One, I don’t know if ‘autonomous no matter what’ is an important enough goal versus ADAS, but for another, the gold standard in the industry except Tesla is vehicle mounted LIDAR, with investments to bring down the tech price.
Merging data from different sources was never claimed by anyone to be too hard a problem, again, even Tesla used to and decided to downgrade their capabilities for cost. “It’s just not worth it” is a strange take on a video demonstrating quite clearly the better data from LIDAR than you can possibly get from cameras and the benefit of avoiding collisions, collisions that kill thousands a year. Even the relatively “won’t turn on unless things are perfect” autopilot has killed quite a few people, and incurred hundreds of accidents beyond that.
FSD is launching this year??! Where have I heard that before?
The road runner thing seems a bit far fetched yeah. But there were also tests with heavy rain and fog which were not passed by Tesla.
The road runner thing isn’t far fetched. Teslas have a track record of t-boning semi trucks in overcast conditions, where the sky matches the color of the truck’s container.
Should be fine if the car reduces speed to account for the conditions. Just like a human driver does.
And the Tesla doesn’t, that’s the problem. A human would slow down if they can’t see, the Tesla just barrels through blindly.
FSD is still in development
You said it will be released this year in another comment. Are they solving fundamental problems like that in the next 9 months?
Which are the unsolvable problems?
Isnt there a rule if weather very heavy and you cant see you must stop driving immediately
You mean a traffic rule? I can’t comment about the US but in Portugal I don’t recall such a rule when learning to drive. Also in Finland I have not experienced that since traffic keeps going even in heavy blizzards.
What about the claims that he only used Autopilot, and not Tesla’s Full Self Driving?
(Context: I hate Tesla, just curious for the sake of an honest argument)
All the other cars he tested stopped just fine. Who cares about fiddling with modes and shit.
“Full shelf driving” still needs to be in quotes. It’s a feature’s brand name for a product that doesn’t actually have full self driving capabilities.
Try not to carry water for their attempted, repeated lie.
Philip DeFranco had him on Yesterday and he said the reason he didn’t use FSD was that it required you to input an address, but that there isn’t any difference in terms of the sensors being used.
Given that the other car didn’t appear to have a version of FSD either, I’m unclear as to why Autopilot wasn’t the correct move for the most accurate comparison.
Not any tangible difference in this scenario. Both use vision only. And both use the same computers.
But do they use a different software? Maybe FSD is more advanced than autopilot and could have reacted better?
Just playing devil’s advocate here.
Yes, completely different software, but both are limited by machine vision.
The software may change but these tests show it’s the hardware that’s limiting them. If the Tesla can’t see a kid through fog, it doesn’t matter what software you pick, that kid gunna die.
The other car only used emergency breaking, so there’s that.
He was helping out Tesla by doing that. He was helping them get the wins they got instead of just Tesla massacring the kid every time. Note to self: As a pedestrian and you see a tesla, don’t cross the street.
I like to help a Tesla out by throwing it batteries, Philly style.
