• sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      11 months ago

      Disagree. Any form of “unlimited” time off gets heavy scrutiny. I’d rather have a generous PTO policy than an unlimited one.

      That said, it’s distopian that anyone needs to send proof of being sick. That’s a symptom of a really toxic work culture.

      • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        11 months ago

        Maybe I’ve been lucky but in 10+ years of unlimited sick time, I’ve never been questioned about sick days.

        Vacation time I think needs a minimum if you’re going to do unlimited, otherwise people aren’t sure what to take and may take less.

        The worst policy I ever worked under was “limited sick days. Unused sick days get paid out as a bonus at the end of the year”. So everyone came in sick to get that sweet two weeks pay at the end of the year.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 months ago

          Yeah, that’s awful.

          I much prefer a fixed amount of PTO to “unlimited” mostly because the culture of companies that offer unlimited seem to discourage actually taking time off, which can lead to burnout. Obviously every company is different, but I’d much rather have a decent fixed amount of time off vs something where I’d feel guilty for abusing it. I currently get like 3.5 weeks, which is pretty decent for my field, and I’ll get a bump to 4.5 weeks in a couple years.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          Vacation time I think needs a minimum if you’re going to do unlimited, otherwise people aren’t sure what to take and may take less.

          There’s no such thing as unlimited time off.

          • lad@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            There are places that state they have “unlimited vacations” but I expect they will fire you if you take too many days off. A friend of mine has all the Fridays in the year off, plus the regular vacations.

            • SokathHisEyesOpen@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              11 months ago

              Then it’s not unlimited and I’d rather just know how much time I can take off, than wondering if I’m skirting the limits.

              • lad@programming.dev
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                11 months ago

                I totally agree that it’s better to know in advance. But that’s part of the strategy it seems, you’re too afraid to push it, so you get too few

              • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                I don’t think a place like that exists I think OP’s friend is just lying to them to excuse why they got fired. I’ve never heard of a company with unlimited holidays but then fire somebody for taking them.

                • lad@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  11 months ago

                  Nah, ey were not fired (yet?) and I also worked there before unlimited vacations became a thing, so I kinda think they may went that way. As was said somewhere around this comment with unlim you can guilt/fear your employees into working more and then not pay them unspent days.

                  Edit: clarity

                  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    Where is this? What is the point in guilt in your employees to work in longer hours when you can just contract them to work longer hours perfectly legally?

            • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              11 months ago

              I don’t know where these places are but pretty much every company will have a minimum number of hours you need to work a year (they usually define this as the maximum number of holidays you can take a year rather than the number of days you actually have to work, but it works out the same way) and they’ll tell you what those are, they can’t expect you to just guess.

              For example i can take a maximum of 21 holiday days a year + however many days I am sick + national holidays.

            • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              11 months ago

              There is nowhere in the world that has it forever time off. You have a certain number of days you can take but there is no such thing as you can just take whatever you want. That doesn’t exist anywhere on earth. Do you think it does please link me to it.

              • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                It is very common for places to offer unlimited time off. They don’t mean literally you can take every day off and still get paid. Typically you still need to get your job done.

                Similar to how many jobs have free snacks in the kitchen, but if you went and ate everything in there you’d probably get a talking to. Or most jobs let you go to the bathroom whenever you need, but if you sat on the shitter all day every day it would be a problem.

                This kind of thing involvea people, not a video game or genie you can trick.

      • The Dark Lord ☑️@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        11 months ago

        Right. Those with unlimited PTO take off only what they need, and not the strict number they get. Those with a set amount end up finding time to take off. It’s why companies moved over to “unlimited”. That, and the fact they don’t need to pay out your vacation when you leave.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          No, they usually avoid taking time off even if they need it, because they get guilted into thinking it wouldn’t be approved or something, or that they’d be passed up for a promotion. Employers do it because it’s better for the company, not for the individual.

        • BulbasaurBabu@lemmings.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          11 months ago

          In the US if you’re sick they can just fire you the first day you’re gone. It’s great, I hardly know what to do with all this freedumb I have.

          • SokathHisEyesOpen@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            11 months ago

            Most jobs aren’t going to do that. They can technically fire you whenever they want, since it’s considered at-will employment, but the cost of finding and training a replacement usually lends some stability, even for low-level jobs.

        • baseless_discourse@mander.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          I understand U.S. system is VERY VERY fucked up, three day sick leave is no where close to enough; but I am quite confused of why people only need a doctor’s note after two weeks.

          It seems quite reasonable if one haven’t recovered for a week (or been very sick for more than 3 days), it is best for them to see a doctor, especially with free health care in the Netherlands.

          • SokathHisEyesOpen@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            11 months ago

            It’s completely dependent on the job, and that’s a problem. Good jobs offer ample time off, bad jobs offer the bare legal minimum. Unfortunately the legal minimum is really oppressive and causes a lot of people to go into work sick, getting everyone else sick in the process.

          • drev@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            Edit: Sorry about this comment, it’s pretty useless, I just had time to kill waiting for my next flight. Reads like a fictional dystopian exaggeration, but it was my reality and continues to be reality for many others, unfortunately. TL;DR - anecdotes outlining how US working conditions can be brutally unforgiving, especially in the restaurant industry.

            There’s 3 days sick leave in the US? When I was still living there, I got my 2nd write-up (3rd = termination) for not coming to work because I needed to go to the ER for an overdose. Side note: caffeine powder is way cheaper than coffee, but if you’re too broke to afford coffee, you’re too broke to afford a milligram scale reliable and accurate enough to prevent accidental overdose.

            After breaking my 30+ day streak of 12-15 hour shifts (about 90-100 hours per week, was normally only 85 or so), I came back to work the next day with a doctor’s note, and my boss said “I don’t think you’re lying to me…” followed by 10 very long seconds of suspicious squinting and staring me down, “… But yesterday was Saturday, so I’m going to need to write you up”. You see, it was explicitly forbidden to call in sick on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.

            Don’t let your loved ones work in restaurants, ESPECIALLY in the kitchen. I unfortunately couldn’t quit because I had no days off to apply for other jobs, and missing out on even one day of pay was the difference between covering bills AND food, or having to steal food to avoid homelessness. I legitimately considered choosing to be homeless temporarily as a way out, because I pretty much lived at work anyway, I only ever slept at the apartment. Granted, my situation was particularly bad because they were actually stealing 50% of my earned wages (~$8300 over 10 months, which I eventually got back after threats of litigation).

          • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            11 months ago

            I think the idea is that you’re actually sick for a week, not “sick”. And can’t show them anything until you’re better. If you’ve ever been that sick, you know you can barely get out of bed to go to the bathroom.

      • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        11 months ago

        I’ve had unlimited sick time via “if you’re not well stay home” for like ten years. One job had limited vacation time (15 days to start that went up to 25 as you gained seniority), but the others has unlimited vacation time, too.

        These have been small/medium startups.