Since October it’s been a really easy concept to grasp. Hamas is a terrorist group that murdered and kidnapped a bunch (don’t know the exact number something around 200+) of Israeli civilians, the IDF responded in a predictably overzealous way and have now killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 civilians in Palestine. Neither Hamas nor the IDF have a moral high ground here. They both need to stop killing civilians. Super easy.
Neither Hamas nor the IDF have a moral high ground here. They both need to stop killing civilians.
The one thing both have in common is refusal to take peace talks seriously. Hamas refuses to let go of their hostages, and Israel continues their bombing campaign against Hamas.
Its a difficult situation because these are the “adults” in the room. The civilians involved have little power at all.
Both Hamas and the Israeli government do not want peace, though. They’re on the same side in that. (Hence Israel sending cash and stuff to keep Hamas in power.)
The Israeli government directly aided the terrorist attack that killed over 1000 people. They’re not protecting their citizens. Leveling Gaza doesn’t protect shit. They’re not changing their policies. They are a disaster both for the Israeli and Palestinian people.
Hell, if anything, hamas is more interested in releasing the hostages than Israel is. They’ve let a few go, meanwhile the idf says “never forget” while turning Gaza into a crater. They don’t give a flying fuck about the hostages.
Hell, if anything, hamas is more interested in releasing the hostages than Israel is.
What the fuck? Hamas fucking took those hostages to begin with and started this mess.
There’s a comprehensive peace plan proposed by Egypt and Qatar. When Hamas steps up to the table and accepts the peace deal, then maybe you’d have grounds to stand on. But for now, Hamas refuses to give up the hostages, and continues to fight.
They took hostages for a reason, ostensibly to exchange them for something. Hamas doesn’t want peace though, so why would they care about a peace plan? Also, as mentioned before, they have released a few already.
Hamas fights using plain clothes, blending in with the civilian population and uses irregular and dishonorable tactics, like building military bases inside or under Hospitals to use as a human shield.
Or like how most people would call it, they’re fucking terrorists.
If you want a more precise legal terms, perhaps violating Geniva conventions, irregular, human shields, asymmetric. These are people who pretend to be civilians while fighting, while kidnapping civilians to use as shields.
does Israel recognize a Palestinian state? it seems like they own Gaza when they want to treat them like subjects, and they don’t when they want to treat them like an opposing state.
People don’t seem to understand that the Genocide / Nazi argument plays against Hamas, lol.
But yeah, it’s a tough situation. I’d argue that Bibi’s government was pretty shit at pursuing peace though.
But that’s outside the scope of the conflict today. Almost everything has to do with Oct 7th. The good news is that Egypt and Qatar want a peace to work, and as Muslim countries they’re going to be Muslim-favored / more likely to have a lasting effect in the region (rather than say, a US brokered peace deal).
So a path to peace … Or at least a ceasefire in this current flareup in hostilities… still exists. There is reason for hope.
But yeah, it’s a tough situation. I’d argue that Bibi’s government was pretty shit at pursuing peace though.
Totally. He’s massively implicated in propping up Hamas and undermining support for the non-militant Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. This is well-known in Israel at this point, and one reason for the coming reckoning he’s going to face at the ballot box.
This is not accepted fact anywhere but conspiracy land, there are articles saying that Israel have been far too soft on Hamas by letting aid through, limiting the effectiveness of bombing missions to limit civilian casualties, and ending prior conflicts before totally destroying them. These are all things which the international community loudly calls for, you can’t be pro Palestine and say that Israel is responsible for Hamas because they have ceasefires and allow aid deliveries - you’re using hardline arguments to call for a soft line, it doesn’t make sense
According to Hamas, 20,000 Palestinians have been killed. As a matter of methodology, they do not distinguish between Hamas terrorists and civilians. It also does not distinguish between those killed by Israel and those killed by Hamas/Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whether through guns or misfired rockets. The IDF claims to have killed at minimum 8,000 Hamas terrorists, which would immediately bring the total of civilian dead down to 12,000.
The Hamas-run Health Ministry in Gaza regularly issues statistics on the dead and wounded in the Strip. As of Sunday, the tally stands at 20,424 deaths. The ministry does not differentiate between armed men and civilians, nor does it denote the people killed by Israeli strikes and those felled by errant rockets fired by Hamas and other Palestinian factions.
This time the Israeli reprisal has been far greater. “The fundamental difference in this war is that almost zero organizations in Gaza are reporting on the number of casualties, save for the Palestinian Health Ministry, which is controlled by Hamas – and the Health Ministry is working with the Media Ministry,” Khoury says.
According to the Israeli military, 10 to 12 percent of the 10,000-plus rockets fired at Israel have actually landed in Gaza. According to Prof. Kobi Michael, a senior researcher at Israel’s Institute of National Security Studies and the Misgav Institute for National Security and Zionist Strategy, “I would say that there is a significant number of casualties … caused by failed rockets from Hamas and Islamic Jihad.”
**Michael, as well as others relying on the Israeli military numbers, put the number of Hamas members killed at over 8,000. If Hamas’ total numbers are used, this would put the civilian toll at about 60 percent. When asked how it has determined the number of Hamas militants among the dead, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit declined to comment. **
If that’s even close to the correct percentage, then it’s actually a remarkable achievement by the Israeli military to keep the proportion of civilian deaths so low.
According to the United Nations on 25 May 2022, on average 90% of deaths in war are civilians. If the Israeli military has managed to keep it down to 60%, as the analysts above suggest, then actually they’re doing a very good job.
Since October it’s been a really easy concept to grasp. Hamas is a terrorist group that murdered and kidnapped a bunch (don’t know the exact number something around 200+) of Israeli civilians, the IDF responded in a predictably overzealous way and have now killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 civilians in Palestine. Neither Hamas nor the IDF have a moral high ground here. They both need to stop killing civilians. Super easy.
The one thing both have in common is refusal to take peace talks seriously. Hamas refuses to let go of their hostages, and Israel continues their bombing campaign against Hamas.
Its a difficult situation because these are the “adults” in the room. The civilians involved have little power at all.
Hamas did let some hostages go fwiw.
Both Hamas and the Israeli government do not want peace, though. They’re on the same side in that. (Hence Israel sending cash and stuff to keep Hamas in power.)
Oh no…
NYT article (no paywall)
That’s… bad.
Vetted one of the Times’ claims too: the Israeli press decrying the Qatari payments in 2014.
It’s pretty fucking bad.
The Israeli government directly aided the terrorist attack that killed over 1000 people. They’re not protecting their citizens. Leveling Gaza doesn’t protect shit. They’re not changing their policies. They are a disaster both for the Israeli and Palestinian people.
Meanwhile Israel has bombed known locations of hostages AND shot a few of them.
Hell, if anything, hamas is more interested in releasing the hostages than Israel is. They’ve let a few go, meanwhile the idf says “never forget” while turning Gaza into a crater. They don’t give a flying fuck about the hostages.
What the fuck? Hamas fucking took those hostages to begin with and started this mess.
There’s a comprehensive peace plan proposed by Egypt and Qatar. When Hamas steps up to the table and accepts the peace deal, then maybe you’d have grounds to stand on. But for now, Hamas refuses to give up the hostages, and continues to fight.
They took hostages for a reason, ostensibly to exchange them for something. Hamas doesn’t want peace though, so why would they care about a peace plan? Also, as mentioned before, they have released a few already.
Yeah. Human shields. And they’re still using them as human shields. Its like terrorist tactics 101 here.
“terrorist” is loaded language
Fine
Hamas fights using plain clothes, blending in with the civilian population and uses irregular and dishonorable tactics, like building military bases inside or under Hospitals to use as a human shield.
Or like how most people would call it, they’re fucking terrorists.
If you want a more precise legal terms, perhaps violating Geniva conventions, irregular, human shields, asymmetric. These are people who pretend to be civilians while fighting, while kidnapping civilians to use as shields.
does Israel recognize a Palestinian state? it seems like they own Gaza when they want to treat them like subjects, and they don’t when they want to treat them like an opposing state.
firing on a hospital is indefensible.
Hamas is a political party. does likud wear plain clothes?
Israel tried peace talks for over 60 years. When one side’s non-negotiable is “you all have a to die” it’s hard to secure lasting peace.
People don’t seem to understand that the Genocide / Nazi argument plays against Hamas, lol.
But yeah, it’s a tough situation. I’d argue that Bibi’s government was pretty shit at pursuing peace though.
But that’s outside the scope of the conflict today. Almost everything has to do with Oct 7th. The good news is that Egypt and Qatar want a peace to work, and as Muslim countries they’re going to be Muslim-favored / more likely to have a lasting effect in the region (rather than say, a US brokered peace deal).
So a path to peace … Or at least a ceasefire in this current flareup in hostilities… still exists. There is reason for hope.
Totally. He’s massively implicated in propping up Hamas and undermining support for the non-militant Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. This is well-known in Israel at this point, and one reason for the coming reckoning he’s going to face at the ballot box.
This is not accepted fact anywhere but conspiracy land, there are articles saying that Israel have been far too soft on Hamas by letting aid through, limiting the effectiveness of bombing missions to limit civilian casualties, and ending prior conflicts before totally destroying them. These are all things which the international community loudly calls for, you can’t be pro Palestine and say that Israel is responsible for Hamas because they have ceasefires and allow aid deliveries - you’re using hardline arguments to call for a soft line, it doesn’t make sense
Your number is dangerously misleading.
According to Hamas, 20,000 Palestinians have been killed. As a matter of methodology, they do not distinguish between Hamas terrorists and civilians. It also does not distinguish between those killed by Israel and those killed by Hamas/Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whether through guns or misfired rockets. The IDF claims to have killed at minimum 8,000 Hamas terrorists, which would immediately bring the total of civilian dead down to 12,000.
Haaretz explains this:
If that’s even close to the correct percentage, then it’s actually a remarkable achievement by the Israeli military to keep the proportion of civilian deaths so low.
According to the United Nations on 25 May 2022, on average 90% of deaths in war are civilians. If the Israeli military has managed to keep it down to 60%, as the analysts above suggest, then actually they’re doing a very good job.