Harping on people to get married from up in the ivory tower fails to engage with reality of life in the dating trenches.
I like the suggestion that we concern ourselvrs more with the quality of men’s internal lives, but I do worry we’re still objectifying men as ‘the problem’.
Seriously. We can’t just call men “the problem”. We have to address the problems men are having in their social lives and in dating. Men are not being given a fair shot to bring their best selves.
It’ll stop once it stops being a problem. FTA:
He had recently read about a high school creative writing assignment in which boys and girls were asked to imagine a day from the perspective of the opposite sex. While girls wrote detailed essays showing they had already spent significant time thinking about the subject, many boys simply refused to do the exercise or did so resentfully.
I mean, we’re not just talking about the ability to communicate (which is important), but the basic ability to empathize. If men (in general) are unwilling to even consider the female point of view, is it any wonder why women have a difficult time dating? This isn’t happening in a vacuum; there are real reasons why this is happening.
You take one cherry-picked anecdote and then generalize that to the entire population. You are the problem.
You couldn’t be more in your own echo chamber. If other men are telling you woman also act the same way as some men and also have issues and you refuse to see another position or point of view you are the problem.
Think of the structural issues which have caused this to be the case. Blaming men for not achieving an externally defined target isn’t going to help anyone.
Hate the game, not the player.
Navigating interpersonal relationships in a time of evolving gender norms and expectations “requires a level of emotional sensitivity that I think some men probably just lack, or they don’t have the experience,” he added.
I like the quote above about this topic but it does still seem like men are the problem. The problem is that we as a society haven’t taught those skills and worse yet reinforce the opposite. We should be concerned with men’s internal lives and mold them to fit into modern society
I feel like at least in Europe a lot of people see marriage as an outdated concept.
There seems to be an assumption here that the lack of marriage rates is solely due to men being unsuitable. I’d like to see sources and data on that.
It takes two to tango, there are communities with higher marriage rates would be interesting research to see what factors differ amongst communities that impact marriage rates.
A big part is diminishing religiosity. There is little point in getting married if you aren’t religious. Thanks to progress made by LGBT couples, most of the legal benefits of marriage are shared by domestic partnerships. Traditionalists on the left and the right make a big deal of this, but it is of negligible factual importance.
I don’t think most people who get married do it for religious reasons or even to start a family in the US anymore. People do it since they see it a formal a commitment and want to announce their love in public.
That only covers one angle, if people do it for religious reasons, not if they don’t do it because of religion. I’m not getting married, and the religious connotations of even a secular wedding is a significant chunk of why.
There’s also a million legal reasons to get married… If there weren’t, same sex marriage would probably have never made it to the Supreme Court. Everything from insurance coverage, employment benefits, credit rating, child custody, transfer of property following death, medical decisions, and a bunch of other very secular, very important benefits are conferred via legal marriage.
“Ask women what dating is like”. Good idea if you want a biased one sided opinion.
This article is vomit.
Ask a woman what dating is like. You, personally. I dare you.
Only issue is, clearly you won’t listen to their answer.
Odd take. You do realize that a relationship is about TWO people right? It’s not all about you. Shocker right?
Yes and one of those ppl is statistically more likely to kill the other. How are u so dense u don’t get his point.
Yes a relationship is 2 people. That’s not relevant here. If one person is shit why do both people need to “work on things”
News flash… They don’t.
So your argument is that men as a whole aren’t dateable because an extreme minority of them are unhinged and go on school shootings? Huh?
You hate men. We get it.
I’m a man u fucking doughnut for brains.
Well, considering dating takes at least 2 people (depending on how you live your life, and yes non-monagamy and polyamory are vaild), asking only one group is incredibly biased.
You… missed the point of the article completely.
Please explain how this isn’t a bigoted point of view
Ms. Kearney, for example, acknowledges that improving men’s economic position, especially men without college degrees, is an important step toward making them more attractive partners.
There is a widespread, socially disruptive, and sometimes life threatening epidemic of unfuckable dudes.
There are challenges with expectations and entitlements on all sides, but the unfuckable dudes are not rising to meet the challenges.
What about all the unfuckable women? Again you look at everything one sided.
Both sexes need to get better. You’re saying that it’s all up to the men. In other words what you’re saying is women don’t have to be responsible for anything, they can act any way they want. A very entitled and selfish attitude.
Did you ever consider that this toxic mentality DRIVES AWAY the good men? Maybe good men want nothing to do with you because of your mentality. That leaves only the toxic men to put up with your bullshit, so that’s all you see.
What about unfuckable women? Do men ever feel threatened by them to the point of feari g for their lives???
You pretend this is one sided but it is literally not the same for women dating as it is for men.
To believe otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
The vast majority of men never consider physical violence against them in a relationship.
The good men arent afraid to admit that men in general need to do a lot better job of respecting women.
You claim: "In other words what you’re saying is women don’t have to be responsible for anything, they can act any way they want. "
No one is saying this. You assumed this. Your assumption is simply incorrect.
This is the definition of a strawman. You’re fitting an argument the other person never made.
This is the definition of a strawman. You’re fitting an argument the other person never made.
Except this thread is chock full of you all doing this exact thing.
Listen, nothing will change that there are shitty men out there. Nothing will change that there are also shitty women out there. If you can’t find a decent guy it isn’t because they don’t exist, it’s because YOU aren’t attracting them. This is a YOU problem.
Only it isnt and you’re projecting cuz UK you’re completely wrong.
Projecting? More like you’re deflecting.
You’re the hateful one here. You’re the angry one. You need a nap.
Oh really what did I say that is hateful? You’re still projecting 100% or you just can’t read haha.
They aren’t shooting up night clubs, marauding through cities, or lashing out violently out of sexual frustration and a lack of purpose.
Men are doing those things. Look, I get that ‘both sides’ impulse, but unfuckable women don’t pose an existential risk to society, and to be honest, women have to be pretty far gone to qualify as unfuckable.
Angry women aren’t as violent or dangerous as angry men, and the social validation most men are cultured to seek through income, physical prowess, and social success is not as accessible as it once was.
When I was little I noticed that all the father’s were just absent. It seemed to me then that the role of ‘dad’ had been demoted to a placeholder and was existentially diminished in terms of meaning and value. This has a deleterious effect on the sense of purpose of many young men, myself included, but it doesn’t have to define us.
Women are seizing an opportunity for their own self actualization from the oppressive society we live in to find purpose and meaning. Maybe some more men need to do the same.
Yikes. You have deep issues.
The thing is no one is arguing that men don’t suck. Plenty of men out there are garbage.
What you’re glossing over is the fact that women have lots of issues as well. There is no shortage of psycho women with deep issues.
Go talk to a “good” man and get their perspective on dating. You’ll get a different picture and you’ll see women are chock full of their own issues. It’s just a different flavor.
The problem is you’ll never do that because you hate men and have no interest in a genuine conversation. Instead it’s all “woe is me, all men suck”.
If you can’t find a good man, it’s not that they don’t exist, but rather you don’t attract them. Maybe work on your attitude and you won’t come off as toxic with tons of baggage and maybe then they will give you a shot.
I like to think that I am a good man, and I know my girlfriend is a good woman.
I know that I wasn’t really ready for the seriousness of relationship some of my ex’s wanted with me and I had to grow up, but I also remember frustrations with some of them not being mature and self reliant enough to be a reliable partner.
I am very fortunate to be on good terms and friendly with many of my previous partners, and I’m lucky to have been in love several times in my life. I know I am a better person because of the love I have shared and that which has been shared with me.
I’ve seen shitty groups of women do things I thought only happened in strawman arguments, like protest a college club of minority men sharing legal and social resources relevant to their community because ‘mens rights is anti feminist’ or other nonsense. I have also seen men joke about vaginal credit card and bitch about their own odious unfuckablity in the same breath.
People can be shitty, that doesn’t mean you need to make assumptions about them. If you give most people a chance, they will tell you who they are.
The TLDR is that not every one sucks and some times you need to give people a chance.
No disagreement there, but I am not seeing how this aligns with the discussion we are having.
At the end of the day not everyone sucks. Putting all of the blame on one sex is disingenuous. Both men and women can be fucked up. There are plenty of good men struggling to find good women. There are plenty of good women struggling to find good men. The world is chock full of assholes for both sexes.
It works both ways but you’re only looking in one direction. Based on everything you said in your last post it sounds a lot like you agree with me, you just don’t want to admit it.
Biggest issue with the article. NO male voices, and it’s repeating the same lines I have heard since the mid 00’s.
Now I acknowledge that there hasn’t been much movement on the dating front, but men are only half the problem, as they are only half the population.
They would change in a hurry as a group if they needed to, but men aren’t a monolith and neither are women.
You want men to be better, be better yourself. The article is garbage by saying men need to step up while not talking to them about the issues they face in the dating world. ESPECIALLY if they aren’t Hetronormative.
So, men are only a problem because…women are the problem?
Wow.
Fuck’s sake, worry about yourself. You want better? Deserve it. Or not, and settle for less. Whatever.
An article that wonders why people aren’t getting married says they went out and only asked one side what the problem was. 🤔
Doesn’t even seem balanced…
Edit: as a romance favourable aroace, the dating world was a nightmare, even if you do everything “right”. Which is why I no longer look to find companionship.
Do better or not, there are garbage people in all genders and the prevailing “men bad” when it comes to dating is just as toxic as what the men are doing.
The article also doesn’t suggest any possible solutions.
