And yes, what happens next is just what you think happens: you run a mixture of oxygen and fluorine through a 700-degree-heating block. “Oh, no you don’t,” is the common reaction of most chemists to that proposal
“Even Streng had to give up on some of the planned experiments, though (bonus dormitat Strengus?). Sulfur compounds defeated him, because the thermodynamics were just too titanic. Hydrogen sulfide, for example, reacts with four molecules of FOOF to give sulfur hexafluoride, 2 molecules of HF and four oxygens. . .and 433 kcal, which is the kind of every-man-for-himself exotherm that you want to avoid at all cost. The sulfur chemistry of FOOF remains unexplored, so if you feel like whipping up a batch of Satan’s kimchi, go right ahead.”
Instead of being locked in a self-storage unit with two rabid wolverines, why not three? Instead of having two liters of pyridine poured down your trousers, why not three? And so on - it’s a liberating thought. It’s true that adding more oxygen-oxygen bonds to a compound will eventually liberate the tiles from your floor and your windows from their frames, but that comes with the territory.
I’m in tears from this stuff and I know fuckall about chemistry.
Though I managed in chemistry, I understand that kcal is just an expression of energy and the reaction’s event total time is important in judging ‘violence’ of reaction - but for the uninitiated like myself, how do I quantify “433 kcal” compared to a more mundane reaction?
You know the typical explosion of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Four times that. And most Hydrogen and Oxygen explosion aren’t even properly mixed. So even more than that.
The thing had an asbestos liner, and that’s the least concerning thing about it. Oh, and they also used lithium in the mix to make a controlled metal fire. So they combined a very reactive group one metal with very reactive fluorine, and this is fine.
Ok, so we have a large tank of pyrophoric and highly corrosive metal at 300C which we hope to convert to a metal fire. A metal fire is scary enough. A metal fire in pure oxygen would be worse. But…we can do better.
You have my interest yes
Oxygen isn’t the best oxidiser.
Why is there heroic orchestra music in my mind now
If you enjoy that series, and it has me in fits of laughter every time I read it, may I also recommend a book called Ignition! An informal history of liquid rocket propellants. It has a similar sense of awed, horrified, fascination with the goings on in the world of chemistry.
I can’t imagine the rollercoaster it must have been trying to devise new fuel formulations. Have we finally hit on the one, or will this one underperform, or take the roof of the lab (again).
Super interesting compound. I wish somehow I could watch footage of strengs experiments. I bet some of those explosions would be really cool in slow mo lol
Sand Won’t Save You This Time, which somehow isn’t in the official listing despite it being one of the better ones of “Things I Won’t Work With,” comes with an accompanying video of chlorine triflouride doing its thing and setting quite a few normally-not-flammable things on fire, back from the era of Youtube when Youtube was good.
The video won’t show for me. Oh well. The dioxygen difluoride article was a hell of a read. I liked how free fluoride radicals are described as “free of their gentle and forgiving nature”.
Super cool. I can’t imagine having to explain what happened to the lab manager after burning through the lab floor and a few feet of gravel and sand below lol
For anyone not acquainted with Things I Won’t Work With
“Even Streng had to give up on some of the planned experiments, though (bonus dormitat Strengus?). Sulfur compounds defeated him, because the thermodynamics were just too titanic. Hydrogen sulfide, for example, reacts with four molecules of FOOF to give sulfur hexafluoride, 2 molecules of HF and four oxygens. . .and 433 kcal, which is the kind of every-man-for-himself exotherm that you want to avoid at all cost. The sulfur chemistry of FOOF remains unexplored, so if you feel like whipping up a batch of Satan’s kimchi, go right ahead.”
Holy shit I’m dying.
From the peroxide-peroxides article:
I’m in tears from this stuff and I know fuckall about chemistry.
Though I managed in chemistry, I understand that kcal is just an expression of energy and the reaction’s event total time is important in judging ‘violence’ of reaction - but for the uninitiated like myself, how do I quantify “433 kcal” compared to a more mundane reaction?
You know the typical explosion of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Four times that. And most Hydrogen and Oxygen explosion aren’t even properly mixed. So even more than that.
Oh my
There’s also this rocket with fluorine in the fuel: https://youtu.be/KX-0Xw6kkrc
The thing had an asbestos liner, and that’s the least concerning thing about it. Oh, and they also used lithium in the mix to make a controlled metal fire. So they combined a very reactive group one metal with very reactive fluorine, and this is fine.
I love this so much
You have my interest yes
Why is there heroic orchestra music in my mind now
If you enjoy that series, and it has me in fits of laughter every time I read it, may I also recommend a book called Ignition! An informal history of liquid rocket propellants. It has a similar sense of awed, horrified, fascination with the goings on in the world of chemistry.
You know, the fact that I clicked that link in a heartbeat makes me wonder just how many lists I’m on.
Oh, many, many lists. All the interesting people are. :)
Brilliant book.
I like the bit about how proud the author was to develop a purple liquid rocket fuel, but then discover it wasn’t useful :(
I can’t imagine the rollercoaster it must have been trying to devise new fuel formulations. Have we finally hit on the one, or will this one underperform, or take the roof of the lab (again).
Super interesting compound. I wish somehow I could watch footage of strengs experiments. I bet some of those explosions would be really cool in slow mo lol
Sand Won’t Save You This Time, which somehow isn’t in the official listing despite it being one of the better ones of “Things I Won’t Work With,” comes with an accompanying video of chlorine triflouride doing its thing and setting quite a few normally-not-flammable things on fire, back from the era of Youtube when Youtube was good.
The video won’t show for me. Oh well. The dioxygen difluoride article was a hell of a read. I liked how free fluoride radicals are described as “free of their gentle and forgiving nature”.
No worries: Youtube link
Super cool. I can’t imagine having to explain what happened to the lab manager after burning through the lab floor and a few feet of gravel and sand below lol
It has been 0️⃣ days since our last big fluorine fire
Wtf!
You should watch better channels probably
I wish there was more of this series.
Well there might be a blog but I can’t find a working link to a list.
https://www.science.org/action/doSearch?field1=Title&text1="Things+I+won't+work+with"&field2=Contrib&text2=Derek+lowe&field3=AllField&text3=&publication=&Ppub=&startPage=0&sortBy=Earliest
Thanks!
You could always decide to get into
researching pandora’s boxfluorine chemistry yourself.I love that blog!