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sdfsaf
You can probably drop the “lol” part.
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I’m a millennial, i do it all the time lol
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I thought “lol” was short for “Just wanted to let you know that I’m a millennial so you can better understand where I’m coming from with this comment.”
Does it have a different meaning?
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That’s actually always the subtext of people who end every statement with “lol”
Try saying “col” then
I felt weird typing that col
In this case, it’s more like “loltac.”
ROFC
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Project 2025 is the culmination of 50 years ‘lesser evil’ voting. Instead of accepting no evil, democrats tolerated right wing politics and its policies as long as it had a D next to its name.
Marginalized communities have been living with versions of P2025 all their lives. This only scares white liberals because its something that finally targets them. Democrats demanded we ignore our oppressors and vote for them and didnt have our backs. Now we wont have theirs for the mess liberals created.
You had me in the middle bit
I can’t argue with any of that. What I’m stuck on is just what the fuck to do now and what comes next.
Can you elaborate on your thoughts? I honestly can’t see a way out except for eating another shit sandwich and hoping that incrementalism can save us once sanity returns. But fuck, we’re cooked, sanity is gone for good so I’m out of ideas and the alternative only makes it worse for everyone. I’m at a point where I’m happy to vote against my best interests but that’s kinda what I feel I’ve been doing all this time.
Incrementalism is what got us here. We were led to believe that incremental baby steps is what was necessary for progress. They use those incremental baby steps as small, little, minute, undetectable steps to the right. They compartmentalized the rightward shift so all we saw were small puzzle pieces and couldn’t piece them together to show the larger overall picture. And when people started to challenge their views, they would throw the marginalized communities in front of them to defend their actions, ’ you challenging our systems might hurt this black person, it might throw this lgbtq+ person under the bus,’ etc. and I use that tactic to silence opposition. It’s the same tactic that Republicans use when they scream ‘save the children’
If incrementalism actually worked, we wouldn’t be having the same discussions about wages and housing and healthcare and education that we were having 50 60 70 years ago.
Regarding P2025 we are at the
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
Martin Niemöller’s poem First They Came
So right, I get all that, but I’m not terribly interested in retribution for what got us here, I’m interested in tangible ways to go forward. I think all our choices are shit right now so what, just don’t vote so that I can sniff my own farts for being above it all?
I’m at the point where I agree…ish. I do believe that there is a lot of deliberate actions by the power structure of both parties but I see some actual humanity and thought coming from one side, pure spite and malice from the other and complete and utter insanity from the comedy option. Problem is the humanity in the party has gotten nothing done (not for their lack of trying) and has no control so I am have officially given up on them.
So I’m left with zero options. Great fucking country we have here that I’m utterly trapped within.
I think it would help to imagine this as if we’ve already arrived at the peak of fascism - what would you be doing then? Likely mutual aid, political (probably undergroud) organizing, civil disobedience, ect. This is what they mean when anarchists say ‘you can’t vote fascism away’, and this is what leftists mean when they say voting in this election doesn’t really address the crisis.
The hard work of resisting fascism happens everywhere but the ballot box.
The hard work of resisting fascism happens everywhere but the ballot box.
You realize that doing all of that hard work would be much harder under Trump than Biden right?
Even if you’re the most communist person ever, it makes sense to vote for Biden, he atleast tolerates your existence, and that’ll make all praxis easier than under Mr. “Root out the communist vermin” Trump
Biden doesn’t tolerate our existence any more than Trump, they are equally hostile to everyone that challenges their power
That’s not the point: voting is unrelated to the work of uprooting fascism. If you spend all your energy getting Biden elected, you are still no closer to solving the problem.
There is some credence to using that as leverage to get liberals (whose only concern seems to be getting their guy elected) to engage the actual work of eliminating fascism, but that’s not what I was advocating here.
Thanks, I appreciate the perspective, I’m trying to pull myself out of this bullshit, never been more clear that my vote means nothing, the system does as the system does.
👍
People keep saying this and everytime I go to the website I find nothing but very vague assertions and a link to a long book.
Can someone give me some of the high level summaries? Thanks in advance.
It’s basically a wishlist of policy proposals that a ton of far-right NGO’s have come up with that the Trump team has embraced.
Caught a sound bite of trump rambling again.
Did Hitler sound that dumb in his rallies?
Hitler didn’t make it to 80. It’d be nice if trump took that note
As evil as Hitler was… he did at least one good thing for the world.
So far, I’m not so sure Trump has done that much.
(Hitler offed himself.)
Say what you will about Hitler, he did kill Hitler.
But on the other hand, he also killed the guy who killed Hitler.
He was also largely dismissed as a clown, like trump in 2016, that there was no way he would win.
As a German, his speeches are not dumb or incoherent as Trump’s, but they are really that good either. Basically constantly screaming and a very weird cadence.
Messagewise, it’s pretty close, though. MAGA and Deutschland über alles are not that different. Actually, making Germany as great as it’s been before Versailles was kind of the entire point of the Nazi party (and of course The Jews™ were responsible for all of that ).
In his time, Hitler was ridiculed for his weird looks and barely coherent speeches. It was thought he would be ineffectual and easily controlled by more seasoned politicians when he was allowed to become cancellor (he only got about 35 percent of the popular vote but managed to build a conservative coalition). To underestimate his and his party’s plan to dismantle democracy, which was plainly laid out in Mein Kampf, was a grave mistake of course. More info here: https://www.annefrank.org/en/anne-frank/go-in-depth/germany-1933-democracy-dictatorship/
America first is actually another slogan of theirs so you don’t even have to go that far to draw the comparison
Hitler was described as a charismatic and compelling speaker. That’s historically how he was able to capture so much of the German audience. Only once he had a strong following did he begin attacking the BBC as “Lügenpresse” (fake news), isolating Germans from trusting in international media.
Yeah but that’s how some people describe Trump. I can’t fathom how one could listen to him speak without getting the impression that he’s a narcissistic moron but that’s how it goes I guess.
I think that begs the question of whether or not many felt that way about Hitler in 1930s Germany. I’m guessing he was well spoken enough that even those that disliked his message didn’t have the same opinion of him that I do of Trump. They likely saw him as a threat and someone to fear for his ability to sway others to his cause. Trump seems successful largely in spite of himself which is odd, but again I can’t see anything other than a clown with little man syndrome so maybe they are successful for largely the same reasons. They do have a lot of similarities. I just have to imagine Hitler was more cunning and less sniveling.
Maybe “begs a question” but not “begs the question”.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
Today’s PSA was brought to you by Novartis; bringing pills to people since 1422.
Lots of people thought Adolf was a clown and an idiot. It didn’t really stop him from doing lots of lots of damage.
Same for the Nazi Party, really. It was filled with incompetence and idiocy.
There is no fascism without dictatorship.
Bet
it is already here
That is downplaying the threat.
Not even closely. It has arrived, butchered all your neighbors one by one, now it is at the doors of those living in American Dream houses. You were just just chilling in your garden and paying taxes to the machine that was axing all the marginalized groups one by one, until this year when they are finally narrowing the “orthodox” line to leave the white liberal on the marginalized side. Enjoy the last vestige of comfort Biden tries to push for the U.S. citizen while straining your conscious with the suffering elsewhere, as was the accepted American liberal lifestyle for a quarter short of a century now.
As for the Europeans, don’t be lazy or be apathetic and vote while you still have good candidates. Most of you have abysmal vote percentages because so far your governments kept your individualistic lifestyles untouched. Don’t assume you can keep the peaking fascism tide via shifting Overton Window at bay without showing an almost identical solidarity the right wing shows at every continent on earth. The “Russian propaganda, blackmail, bribery, etc.” is only the beginning. Iran had experienced the same meddling by the U.S. decades ago, the whole Middle East and North Africa have been experiencing it since early 2000 at least. Turkey started going down the same path with Menderes and American influence during the cold war in the 60’s, and not even half a century later we have Erdoğan and even worse shariah-law touting coalition parties with him propping up now.
The marginalized groups were always marginalized. By definition they can only become not marginalized (e.g. women voting, repealing Jim Crowe, marriage equality).
It’s just an illogical thing to say.
Laughs nervously in Dutch.
Has been for decades
Brilliant photo illustration.
We’ve seen it, us who live outside of America and have had the pleasure of being invaded. Must be nice to use everyone else’s land as battlefields and never having to fight one at home, and ignoring the atrocities and fascism committed by your armies on foreign soil.
Where are you?
Throw a dart at a map.
WWI and WW2 were absolutely necessary actions to contain others aggression. The Korean war is the only reason that the entirety of Korea isn’t under an insane dictatorship. Afghanistan attacked the US (stupidly enough) Iraq v1 was to contain a war of aggression.
Vietnam and Iraq v2 were wrong.
and fascism committed by your armies on foreign soil.
How does one commit a fascism?
When you send in your cia to round up citizens of foreign nations and execute/torture them, and fund death squads that disappear people without due process, what do you call that but fascism?
Major General Smedley Butler called it Racketeering.
Anyone have a non-Paywall link?
If you drop the paywall link into archive.is you’ll get an archived version back.
If you can afford it, please donate to the EFF, Internet Archive and the New Republic.
Yeah, I use that sometimes, but it’s really hit or miss. Thanks for the reminder though!
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Every single Allied WWII would roll in their grave and the f’n Little Austrian Corporal would be f’n proud of the f’n MAGATs.
You’re allowed to use curse words here.
Flip yeah!
Extremely cruel, short sighted stupidity that kills many as well as so much corruption and infighting that the US government collapses. Of course, climate change is also going to make everything start to collapse soon anyway. At least the fascist savages will burn right along with everyone else.
America is already there. Been there since citizens united.
Fascism has always been a feature of America and part of this country’s core. The Trump admin is a real threat. It doesn’t help the Dems fighting against fascist are perfectly fine with standing by and working with fascists with bipartisan efforts that only go in the right-wing direction.
No. Not same sides. Don’t. The problem is the fascists. Not the naivete of civil servants trying to fund the VA and Medicare.
If you stand beside fascists and are fine with state violence and genocide, you aren’t some type of pillar of democracy. The reason the GOP is so strong no matter what they do, Dems will still address them as their friends and colleagues. While the GOP fights dirty and stays committed to long term goals in lock step.
What are you doing each day when you’re not on your keyboard? The party represents the constituents. People are naive to the zero sum game stakes at hand. So they vote themselves into DNC positions. They’re just people. Like you and me.
All people can do is support each other through mutual aid and education and local elections. The long track record of just pick the lesser evil and vote harder isn’t working. Not much people can do.
I hate to break it to all the libs - but the US is already (and has been in the past) about as fascist as it can get. You want to see institutionalized (and perfectly normalized) fascism for yourself? Just look for your nearest cop - you won’t have to look long.
Liberals have always signed on to US fascism - as long as it wasn’t aimed at them, libs were fine with the imperialism and class repression (all the things you can’t do without fascists) long before Trump was even born.
Trump is not a fascist - he’s merely cosplaying as one. Trump knows he couldn’t drain the swamp even if he wanted to - the swamp made him. This is not good news - the swamp (ie, the US political establishment) has always nurtured and maintained fascism to keep the people at the bottom from threatening the people at the top. US fascism is nothing new. - this call was always coming from inside the house.
You obviously have no idea how bad it can get.
Bingo.
I guess you’re not well-acqainted with US history? You know… the parts that inspired the Nazis and the Apartheid-regime?
I don’t think you know how bad it can get… or how bad it already is for the people the US designates as “other.” And pretending that this can all be blamed on a cartoon fascist is peak white liberalism.
I am, that’s why I know that the lived reality in Germany and the US doesn’t resemble Nazi Germany in the slightest. The pogrom in Rostock-Lichtenhagen, the MOVE bombing, the Waco siege, and so on happened decades ago. In Nazi Germany, the state wantonly attacking “others” on that scale while crushing resistance like that was the daily norm, cheered on by the general public.
There’s absolutely no comparison to what’s happening these days: not in scale, not in public acceptance, and not in institutionalization. It’s tragic what people are suffering from, but it’s completely insane to think that we’re living under fascism. Have you seen the images of Auschwitz? Have you read a single interview with someone who actually survived fascism?
I am
So you are aware as to how the phenomenon we refer to as fascism today has always been a fundamental aspect built right into the very foundations of the US and every other classical liberal nation state?
If you’re not, you need to go back to reading.
the MOVE bombing, the Waco siege, and so on happened decades ago.
And what has actually changed since then? Has the function fascism renders to the liberal nation state magically disappeared, perhaps?
and not in institutionalization.
Really? What kind of armaments do the most visible form of institutionalized fascism (ie, the police) carry around these days?
but it’s completely insane to think that we’re living under fascism.
You’ve been living with it all your life. You just don’t recognize it because the liberals don’t take the leash off their pet fascists around you.
Have you read a single interview with someone who actually survived fascism?
Lots of people survive fascism - like everybody in my country that was born before 1990. Your conception of fascism is downright cartoonish - that’s why you are so incapable of realizing that you are already living with it all around you.
This is you, discouraging the basic practice of voting and then cowering away when you’re called out.
You’re a troll, obsessed with (and speaking as if you understand) the nuance of the US while you’re all the way in South Africa. You have nothing to say and you’re universally disliked.
Lol!
I can’t answer posts that Lemmy physically won’t allow me to answer, genius.
(and speaking as if you understand) the nuance of the US while you’re all the way in South Africa
Yes… and? Is this the first time you’ve encountered people outside the US that understands US politics better than the majority of people inside the US?
Guess what… there’s nothing strange about that.
You have nothing to say and you’re universally disliked.
Come now, liberal - I’m “universally disliked” because I have “nothing to say”? I expect that is going to make about as much sense as anything else I’m going to get out of you.
“…and this is why there shouldn’t be any taxes” C’mon, go ahead, round that the corner, libertarian - we all know you want to.
I don’t think you know what actual fascism is, or what it looks like. Your statement reads like you are boycotting universities and have casually avoided being “educated” by “credited professionals” so that you don’t turn a “decent person” who “contributes to society” and “understands words”.
Keep fighting that good fight, you do your own research!
I don’t think you know what actual fascism is
I grew up in a fascist state, liberal. I know fascism in the bone. And here’s the funny thing - so do you. The difference is that I don’t tell myself canned narratives about it when it’s staring me in the face.
That’s what liberals do - and you sure hate it when anyone points all of it out to you.
But hey, who knows… maybe you will get to “vote harder” and, by some miracle, Biden gets a win come November. And then you’ll be performing the exact same histrionics in four years’ time and not understanding why.
Open thoughts… But I feel like it’s dumb to equate every “fascist” to Hitler and use Hitler and WW2 imagery. I feel like it dumbs things down.
If you believe Trump or whoever is a fascist their actions and their own image is enough. People aren’t going to think differently because X is portrayed as Hitler. It seems like gimmicky propaganda to do that. Anyone you would ever want on “your side” would understand this. As result people disregard both “sides”. Do you want people to switch to your side because of social political marketing or because they are actually cognitive enough to have a real understanding of life and reality? Imo it seems like a way to get useless people to join your side out of emotion. In turn dumbing down your side to emotionally reactive people. Marketing doesn’t get you a base that cares, it gets you a following.
I suppose that’s fine in war if you want cannon fodder to use… But that also sounds like something an anti fascist wouldn’t want.
In modern politics it’s like it’s an art to build the biggest base of useless people to abuse for cannon fodder.
The RNC had a stage shaped like a Nazi pin and put up on an electric sign ‘we are all domestic terrorists’ but okay.
While we shouldn’t imply that every little chucklefuck is literally Hitler. Or that every group of fascist are literal Nazis. It would be more disrespectful to not learn the lessons of history. And wait till someone is on the verge of challenging the score. Republicans and trump have had their bonifides verified.
You are right, but many Americans probably wouldn’t get it if you used Stalin. For better or worse, Hitler is the face of fascism; Stalin the face of communism. They were both fascists, as were Mussolini, and Stalin.
It’s just short-hand imagery; everybody knows what you mean. Pinochet was a fascist dictator, but he was also a brutal sociopath, so he’s confusing, even if people recognized him.
Please add Spain’s dictator, Francisco Franco. That bastard allowed Mussolini and Hitler to test their military during Spanish Civil War.
I could never make a comprehensive list; fascism has been all-too common.
Well, I probably could make a comprehensive list, but I’m not. But Franco was another prominent one, so that was a good catch.
Stalin was a totalitarian not a fascist. You can have authoritarian regimes without fascism. Stalin actively fought fascists, was the main reason we won D-Day. He was also a brutal vicious cruel man who ruled his inner circle through fear and paranoia.
fascism
- A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)
- Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, intolerant, racist or nationalistic views or behavior
How do neither of these apply to Stalin? Note the “or” in the second definition. The “Nazi” party was the “National Socialist” party. You have to look at the actions, not just the labels, right? Stalin was authoritarian, intolerant, and nationalistic. He created an authoritarian hierarchical government.
Stalin fits both definitions of Fascism. It doesn’t matter that he was at war with other fascists; monarchies had for millennia fought other monarchies - it didn’t make them not-monarchies.
Because Stalin was a Soviet Dictator. Fascism had a direct capitalist economic component that you’re completely ignoring.
This might be of interest for your further research
https://www.britannica.com/topic/totalitarianism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
And also
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]
I’m only ignoring it because what you’re saying isn’t in the dictionary definition of “fascism,” and I’m not a political theorist. I’m just going by what the good book says.
belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy
What about Stalin makes you think he demonstrated any of this?
“belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy” Is a direct quote from the link on Fascism,
I don’t believe Stalin demonstrated any of that through policy.
Fascism is strictly a right wing ideology
Thanks for the reasonable response!
American fascism got the power since like 50 years ago, I don’t know why the west propaganda machine says it’s something new.
You’re confusing us with Russia
Because it always bares repeating. Republicans plotted a fascist overthrow of the US government. IN 1933 No one was punished or suffered consequences. The descendants of those involved achieved the presidency TWICE. You know their names and the damage they’ve done. Or at least you should.
I must admit the illusion of choice it’s a brilliant idea to make a cover up fascist regime.
Both sides!
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The only thing regressive are those defending the status quo, which happens to be fascist.
In what way is anyone here defending the status quo by calling Trump a fascist? Pretty sure the only people really doing that are Progressive and Socialist Democrats, who do absolutely not defend the status quo.
Democrats are the ones supporting the status quo, which is upholding white supremacy and fascism
white supremacy and fascism
Oh yeah? And how are they doing that?
