• galloog1@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Criticisms of drones don’t survive even a cursory deep dive on the history of aviation warfare. Just because put a pilot in the plane does not make the bombing more ethical. It does make for more mistakes and collateral damage though.

    The response to this is to talk about accountability. As if pilots were not being shielded from command decisions to begin with.

    • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      You’re right. The problem isn’t drones vs manned planes, it’s why are governments bombing people? The U.S. bombed weddings and hospitals and actively obstructed investigations into them, and unilaterally redefined the rules of engagement to treat all deaths as military casualties despite children dying.

      • galloog1@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Every single bomb was accused of being against a civilian. That’s not hyperbole. Not one. It’s easy to claim your enemy bombs civilians when you don’t wear a uniform. That’s why it’s considered a war crime, not the other way around.

        • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          If the Taliban don’t wear uniforms, it doesn’t mean you get to ignore all rules of engagement and shoot people who look like civilians. It means you still fight under the rules and then charge them with war crimes when you finish. If you feel otherwise then pull out of the Geneva Conventions and stop pretending you’re more moral than you are.

          • galloog1@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            The laws of war go both ways in many cases. (Not all). Often, that is exactly what it means. If the enemy is not signatory to the treaty, the protections do not apply to them. I wish we could outlaw war. War crimes are a completely different thing.

            • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Afghanistan is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions 1-4 so the rules do apply here.

              • galloog1@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                The government of Afghanistan ratified the Geneva Conventions in 1956 as a monarchy. The governmental system has changed seven times since then with insurgent forced under a system that is simultaneously not recognized by the international order and has not recognized the laws of war.

                Your assertion is a massive jump and I have to wonder about your agenda here.

                • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Under international law, Afghanistan is still bound by the treaties and their obligations regardless of what government comes after it. That’s the case with all governments even after coups and changes. Just because the Taliban so bad things doesn’t mean the US and other countries can break the international treaties on their end; the conventions even have provisions for how to handle one side breaking the laws (and it’s not to disregard the conventions entirely).

                  It’s not a massive jump to insist that countries actually adhere to treaties they signed. Minimizing civilian deaths is a worthy agenda, not sure why you’re trying to make it personal.

    • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Every drone strike goes through a legal process to ensure the target is a military target and civilian casualties are minimal. When the target surrounds themselves with human shields it doesn’t stop strikes, it just makes strikes more precise.

  • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    “Drones,” he wrote, “have done their job remarkably well… And they have done so at little financial cost, at no risk to U.S. forces, and with fewer civilian casualties than many alternative methods would have caused.”

    Hard disagree. They keep US soldier casualties low and that’s all the politicians care about; preventing bad press. The risk to US forces shouldn’t be zero; they volunteered for the military and dangerous missions while civilians in their homes have not. Civilian casualties are high because they bomb without talking to people on the ground; which leads to hospitals being blown up which wouldn’t happen in other methods.