Thanks Joe Biden for approves the torture of Palestinians and uses it to launder rape hoaxes. No evidence? No problem! Just torture a Palestinian and put it on the Youtube channel!

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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    4 months ago

    Fact 1: Palestinians are tortured into false confessions

    Fact 2: Even the UN report specifically refers to this case and deems it non credible because of israel using torture on other hostages to extract false confessions. Also corroborated by Human Rights Watch, BtSelem and other organisations

    Fact 3: Having the best “rape evidence” being confessions under torture because there is zero actual tangible evidence is not a great look for the credibility of rape claims.

    • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago
      1. rape is a very common atrocity in war.

      2. The March 4th UN report based on photos, video footage and interviews, states that there are “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7th October attacks, including rape and gang rape”.

      3. All of your “facts” here are assumptions and likelihoods.

      Be responsible with your posts and make it clear that you are spreading unconfirmed opinions and assumptions rather than facts.

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          Funny you haven’t commented on polynomials.

          Oh, has nobody asked you about that yet?

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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        4 months ago

        There is zero photo or video evidence of rape. In fact there is no evidence. You are just lying right now.

        Israel says Hamas weaponised rape. Does the evidence add up?

        The report also confirmed Israeli authorities were unable to provide much of the evidence that political leaders had insisted existed. In all the Hamas video footage Patten’s team had watched and all the photographs they had seen, there were no depictions of rape. We hired a leading Israeli dark-web researcher to look for evidence of those images, including footage deleted from public sources. None could be found…

        And

        On a post about America using confessions extracted under torture as “evidence” you find it necessary to defend israel. The agenda is rather obvious.

        If there was any real evidence then there wouldn’t be a need to present us with fraudulent forced torture confessions,

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          You’re making things up again.

          I never claimed there was photo or video evidence of rape. The UN claimed that.

          I’m not defending Israel.

          I’m clarifying your inaccuracies and out-of-context implications.

          Here are the facts:

          1. Rape is an extremely common war atrocity.

          2. a UN report has stated that from photographic, video and interview evidence, rape was likely committed by Hamas.

          • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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            4 months ago

            I don’t at all disagree with your main conclusions, but some factual nitpicks:

            The UN didn’t claim there was photo or video of rape actually happening. The whole thing is sort of a red herring, an artful construction to ask a different question other than “was there rape?” in order that the answer can be no.

            UN report on Sexual violence during the October 7th attack

            UN report on war crimes in general during the conflict, of which sexual violence by both Hamas and the IDF forms a part

            A lot of the UN’s reports actually don’t weigh in on the question of whether the rape that was committed on October 7th was done by Hamas fighters or by an associated body of Palestinians that accompanied them. In a lot of cases there was no way to tell what the affiliation of the man involved in any given instance was, although he was obviously part of the general body of the attack, and so they simply stuck to saying, rape happened.

            Like I say, no real disagreement with your main point, just some nitpicks. Linkerbaan has for whatever reason picked the one pro Palestinian thing he could go to bat for that makes him look like the monster, and where the actual evidence makes the Palestinian side into the bad guys. It’s weird. There is not a shortage of things to bring up that make the Israelis the bad guys.

            • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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              4 months ago

              You are conflating evidence with undeniable proof.

              There is lots of evidence of rape.

              There’s no undeniable proof of rape

              The UN collected and checked a lot of evidence.

              From thousands of pictures, hundreds of videos and about three dozen witness testimonies submitted or provided as evidence , the panel concluded there are “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7th October attacks, including rape and gang rape”

              • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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                4 months ago

                Dude I am 100% on your side on all of that. If anything I was saying sounded like I was saying rape didn’t happen, that wasn’t the intent. Just factual nitpicks about details of what the report itself did and didn’t conclude.

                • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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                  4 months ago

                  I have no problem with nitpicks, only accuracy.

                  You got your nitpick wrong.

                  I wrote

                  " I never claimed there was photo or video evidence of rape. The UN claimed that."

                  You wrote

                  " The UN didn’t claim there was photo or video of rape actually happening".

                  You are responding to a claim that never occurred .

                  You are arguing against the claim that the UN has photo or video of rape actually happening, but nobody made that claim in the first place.

                  Again, you’re conflating evidence with undeniable proof.

                  The UN collected and checked evidence, then concluded there are “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7th October attacks, including rape and gang rape”.

                  Your nitpicks, based on the assumption that somewhere there is a claim of the UN having video or photo proof of rape, are based on either a misunderstanding of the quoted statement or a misunderstanding of my comments.

                  Which, if I can add, is totally fine. I make mistakes all the time.

                  I just figured, if we’re nitpicking, might as well do it right.

                  • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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                    4 months ago

                    Let me try a different way: I’m saying you’re leaving the door open, just a little bit, for someone to come in with a red herring reframing of the question.

                    Saying the UN found photo and video evidence of rape is technically accurate but it leaves a little window open for someone to try to get into an irrelevant discussion about photos and videos and what people didn’t find in the videos. I would just focus on, there is strong evidence of rape, more like you did in your more recent message.

                    Saying rape was likely committed by Hamas leaves a similar little window open, since the report actually specifically stayed away from the question of which men out of the invading force (not all of whom were Hamas) were doing the raping, since that’s pretty hard to determine. To me it is safe to conclude that a lot of it was done by Hamas, but the report doesn’t do that, because it is trying to be rigorous about definitively proving everything that it’s saying.

                    That is my input. You’re free to conclude it’s not warranted of course. Again: I agree with you. Cheers.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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            4 months ago

            Rape is an extremely common war atrocity indeed. So it’s great Hamas didn’t do it.

            So why is it so hard to find evidence of Hamas doing it but not hard to find israel doing it?

            The UN has stated they have no photographic or video evidence. They have a few rando interviews, in fact they needed new ones because the old ones turned out to be fake.

            Could it be that you just want it to be true? That you cannot imagine that the US state has been lying to you for over 8 months? That the rape hoax is needed to manufacture consent for israel committing Genocide just like we lied about WMD’s in Iraq?

            • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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              4 months ago

              Your rhetorical questions are based on baseless assumptions inaccuracies as well.

              If you have questions, ask them.

              Right now you’re just wallowing in your self-dug abyss of misrepresentation.

              According to the UN, “there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery”.

              Go ahead. Ask real questions.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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                4 months ago

                Strange why does the UN report with an investigative mandate which came after your report of a person with no legal authority claim there is no evidence of rape then?

                Maybe you should link the UN the Patten report. Or do you think they took it into consideration and found it unreliable?

                • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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                  4 months ago

                  I’m sure you meant to write something understandable, but it came out as gobbledygook.

                  Can you try to fix your comments and I’ll check back?

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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                    4 months ago

                    I’m sure you meant to have an argument but after you didn’t you have to change the subject.