Should be a one-way ticket back to Syria. I immigrated here from America seven years ago, blend in seamlessly with the populace, and I still wouldn’t fuck with a Canadian in fear of being deported (I’m also not an asshole). It’s an absolute privilege to be here and I love this country. It’s crazy to me that anyone else would have the opportunity to come here and then squander it by beating the shit out of a peaceful lesbian couple who are trying to enjoy their night. How incredibly brazen.
But conservatives don’t agree with these criminals though. Canadian conservatives are pretty vocal against islamism and violent migrants who refuse to integrate and respect Canadian values, including tolerance of LGBT people. Actually it’s pretty similar in the US too even when the conservatives are more extreme.
I see your point, but I have gay friends here in Montreal that were beat up by regular white dudes just because they were kissing in the street.
And what about the shootings that happened in the States in gay clubs? Those were white Christians.
If people are brought up as bigots, they’re gonna be just that. Regardless of their origin or religion. Though I admit, in some places it’s pretty systemic.
Actually the shooting at gay night clubs in the states are usually not white Christians. The most famous to me was the Pulse night club shooting by Omar Mateen, an Islamic extremist.
I think it’s safe to say that anyone attacking the LGBTQ community is a religious extremist of some variety though.
It’s not comfortable but stories like this are exactly why the right is gaining popularity and if the left continues to pretend not to see them and act like this then of course people aren’t going to take us seriously.
We need articles to give us facts and talking heads to explain what’s being done and what the big plan is to make sure that letting in large quantities of immigrants in doesn’t have negative consequences for regular people.
If we act like we’ve never heard of such things while they are listing distressing examples then the average undecided is going to be swayed their way. As an idealist I wish the world had no boarders, we don’t live in that world and i cant force the.world into it by ignoring reality. all the European countries going right have the same big reason for the shift, we can’t go on pretending that if we ignore people’s concerns and real problems that everyone else will ignore them too.
The “Right” harps on the fact that they are Syrians to somehow paint all Syrians, all Muslims, all immigrants with the same brush, stoking fears of population replacement and other such bullshit.
The “Left” says that we have already laws for mob violence, apply them. Bad people who are Syrians exist just like bad people who are Italians exist and just like bad people who are Americans exist and bad people who are Canadians exist. There is zero reason to weaponize the bad behaviour of those bad people to enact discriminatory policies against an entire community. Just apply the existing law. Persecute these assholes for the homophobic hate crime they did. Why is that not enough? In fact, the only people who would say this would not be enough are people with a hate agenda of their own, i.e., the far right…
There’s a very strange phenomenon in Western left wing circles where there’s a sizable portion that would go out of their way to defend these criminals and their behavior, and even go as far as attacking the victims, just because of their religious or ethnic background which they deem is beyond criticism and anybody who tries to call out these behaviors is racist. Calling out hateful aspects of cultures and religions and actually holding them accountable is not weaponizing anything, that’s just being principled.
You’re either intentionally looking the other way without noticing or you’re in a bubble. You can literally just browse the comments under this post or this very thread to see examples of what I’m talking about
If you condemn and criticize the individuals you would be right: these are vile people who acted out extremist hateful sexist violence. They suck, they should be arrested, tried and have the book thrown at them because their actions are disgusting.
If you want to make it about “cultures” and “religions”, well, you’re offside. You’re extrapolating from a bunch of criminals to entire culture and an even larger religion. That’s bigotry and “the left” would be correct to call you out on it.
Canadians as a whole are not violent islamophobes because some idiot shot up a mosque. Canadian culture is not vile and antisemitic because some other idiot shot up a Jewish school. The Christian religion as a whole is not antidemocratic just because some US evangelical trumpists did the January 6th thing. Same principle applies to Syrians or Muslims as a whole.
This is basic shit.
Ps. And no, the “aspects” caveat doesn’t work. We didn’t have a moral panic about antidemocratic aspects of Christianity because of Jan 6th. But it seems the far right loves to stir panic about “aspects” of Islam or brown people all the fucking time. You want to talk about “aspects” without being a useful idiot for the far right? Raise voices from within that community, who will know exactly how to walk that fine line.
If you condemn and criticize the individuals you would be right: these are vile people who acted out extremist hateful sexist violence. They suck, they should be arrested, tried and have the book thrown at them because their actions are disgusting.
This is what happens when you start sacrificing common sense in favor ideological dogma. See, sometimes issues go beyond individuals. When we see patterns emerging, we have to address the issues as societal problems. When you have one person burning down buildings you have horrid individual, when you have 1000 it’s a societal crises. While we have to criticize the individuals and hold them accountable for their actions, we also have to address the reasons why this is a trend to begin with so we can take steps to actually fix the issue.
You can’t do this red herring where you ignore the trends and the big picture and just have tunnel vision on the one instance. This is what conservatives try to do whenever there’s a school shooting. They’ll do everything but admit that guns are the problem. What you’re doing right now is the same as a conservative going “it’s not the guns, it’s mental health”, “you can’t say it’s guns because there are good gun owners”, or “why don’t we ban cars”. Come on dude, at least try to have a honest conversation about this.
Canadians as a whole are not violent islamophobes because some idiot shot up a mosque. Canadian culture is not vile and antisemitic because some other idiot shot up a Jewish school. The Christian religion as a whole is not antidemocratic just because some US evangelical trumpists did the January 6th thing. Same principle applies to Syrians or Muslims as a whole.
Are you really trying to virtue signal to me the ol’ classic “not all muslims”? At this point you have to be disingenuous. No shit, nobody is implying otherwise. You’re just trying to find every excuse to defend islam and homophobic cultures. No, criticizing a culture or religion is NOT accusing every single individual of that culture or religion of being whatever is criticized. If we follow your own line of logic then criticizing homophobia in the US makes you a bigot because not all Americans are homophobes… Not only is this stating the obvious which nobody is contesting, but it serves no purpose other than to distract and detract from the points being made.
And no, the “aspects” caveat doesn’t work. We didn’t have a moral panic about antidemocratic aspects of Christianity because of Jan 6th.
Wtf are you even talking about? We literally did. Not necessarily about Jan 6th because that wasn’t religiously driven, but we have moral panics about Christianity every other month. From book bans to abortion rights to erosion of church and state to whatever. We regularly criticize Christianity for it’s questionable teachings and culture… that’s why it’s presence has weakened so much over the years. Why is it so hard for you to be consistent and apply the same principles to other religions like islam?
But it seems the far right loves to stir panic about “aspects” of Islam or brown people all the fucking time.
Have you ever wondered why the cops didn’t actually do anything to stop the criminals here? How about the many other instances like it in Canada or the UK or Sweden or whatever? It’s because they’re scared of being called racist. This isn’t me making things up, this is an actual thing. Here’s the most famous example from the UK:
Over there they have these massive muslim gangs all over the country that have been systematically young girls for DECADES. The most infamous of these gangs happened in the city of Rotherham where the muslim gang raped over 1400 children for over 30 fucking years. The cops barely did anything about any of it because they were terrified of being called racist. Why? Because every time they try do something morons like you crawl out of the woodworks to call them racist form mobs, berate them, and jeopardize their jobs.
It’s not just the cops, the victims were shunned into silence too. Not by the criminals, but by the supposed “progressive” Labor politicians. For example, this ghoul publicly liked and retweeted a tweet that stated the following:
“Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity.”
The worst part is that when you actually hear the stories of the victims, it is the most gut wrenching thing. You have little girls going home from school only to get kidnapped, beaten, and raped repeatedly. Some of the girls even got pregnant and gave birth to babies they were forced to have. Just when these young girls needed the human rights activists, the feminists, the progressives, the police, the politicians, the justice system by their side… they were abandoned by all them. These people either did nothing to not offend the mob or outright defended the criminals. Everything here is a part of the infamous Rotherham child abuse ring:
However, it should be noted that the raping is still going on today in that same city. It should also be known that Rotherham is NOT the only city. There’s literally dozens of other examples of the same exact thing happening:
The reason why I brought all of this up is to demonstrate how this IS about culture and religion, how it IS a societal issue, how it IS something that goes beyond individuals. Those girls are all humans who had their childhoods robbed from them, some of them might never recover. It’s truly is sad. What’s worse, is that the same issues that prevented the Rotherham case from being brought to light are happening again and again. All of this could have been prevented if people like you stopped this virtue signaling crusade and actually held a set of principles for once. Can you imagine if all the groups I previously mentioned in the UK stuck by their values, called out the problematic aspects of islam and homophobic cultures right away, held the homophobes accountable for their hate, and actually stood by the victims immediately? Perhaps thousands of those girls wouldn’t have ended up as statistics for this ongoing tragedy.
These lesbian girls are the same. They went through something that’s truly horrid, and instead of the LGBT groups, progressives, cops, and so many other supposed allies coming to their rescue… they all instead rushed to victim blame and defend the criminals. These girls aren’t the only LGBT victims in Canada to these types of incidents. Why? Why are we letting people live in fear like this? Why are we not defending the victims? Why are we not calling the vile aspects of islam and islamic cultures? Why are we not deporting these criminals? How many more victims do there need to be? How many more attacks? How many more traumatized souls? What I am saying is so well documented and there are so many examples, that I could give you as many sources and examples as you could possible want. I just want to understand what it will take for you to actually come to your senses and admit that maybe, just maybe, there is a problem with islam, there is a problem with homophobia form islamic cultures, that maybe we need to address it as a society?
You want to talk about “aspects” without being a useful idiot for the far right? Raise voices from within that community, who will know exactly how to walk that fine line.
Just an FYI, I actually lived in Syria (I lived in a suburb of Damascus called Jaramana from 2006-2009). There’s literally no way you know more about this than me. You’re trying to lecture from a place of ignorance. I’m 100% certain you have no idea what a sahih hadith is or what verse 4:34 says in the quran or what a fatwa is without looking them (which you should). Seriously, you know absolutely nothing about islam, islamic cultures, how muslims view homosexuality, or anything really. The image you have of islam is not based in reality.
I wrote multiple times that the perpetrators here should have the book thrown at them. Existing hate crime laws are sufficient for that. Saying that …Canadian cops are scared to act for fear of being called racist is HILARIOUS. This is Canada, buddy, land of kicked-in indian kids’ skulls.
And to cut to the chase, all your long tirade amounts to what exactly? Practically, in practice, in terms of actual policies that you want to see enacted, what are actually you advocating for, what do you want done?
Because we can argue about whether 1 billion Muslims, 2 million of them in Canada are bad people or not until next spring, but ultimately it comes down to good or bad policy. Say your piece.
Lol you’re the one virtue signaling and trying this into something it’s not. I’m giving you actual data backed points about a measurable problem and pointing out how you’re making it worse.
I wrote multiple times that the perpetrators here should have the book thrown at them. Existing hate crime laws are sufficient for that.
And I very explicitly wrote mutliple times, that you’re master plan is idiotic because it doesn’t actually address the root cause of the problem. Clearly, the current hate crime laws don’t mean shit when these types of incidents are happening and in increasing frequency, not to mention the criminals got away because the cops didn’t do shit.
And to cut to the chase, all your long tirade amounts to what exactly? Practically, in practice, in terms of actual policies that you want to see enacted, what are actually you advocating for, what do you want done?
Brief list of common sense policies:
Ban all foreign funding to religious institutions within the country
Deport any non citizen residing in the country immediately if they committed a serious crime
Increase integration and assimilation programs for migrants
Change the national narrative about diversity from a mosaic to something more successful like a melting pot
Make it policy for the local police department to explicitly stand in solidarity of the victims in publicly circulated cases like this
Require secularism and liberal values to be taught at all religious views
Ban gender segregation at all educational institutions
Explicitly iterate that blasphemy and criticism of islam and other religions is NOT a hate crime, but a fundamental part of free speech
Establish a system to make it easier for children and women to more easily report domestic violence and abuse at home and quickly receive help, and add support in languages where islam and other radical religions are more prominent
Establish a quickly accessible and reliable system to tip authorities about extremism that may lead to violence
Literally any of this beats your master plan of doing nothing to address the issue at a societal level and putting your head in the sand.
Because we can argue about whether 1 billion Muslims, 2 million of them in Canada are bad people or not until next spring, but ultimately it comes down to good or bad policy. Say your piece.
If this all your two brain cells managed to get out of what I said then I think I can understand why you’re position is the way it is, and I have no interest in wasting my time any further.
I wondered the same, race was never a thing at our grade achool or highschool either in 80s or 90s. Like it never crossed our minds to think the brown/black kid, they were just kids, and some were the super popular kids. One of my white friends was super into rap and breakdancing and his entire friend circle was black. They called each other niggah as a greating ( but ER ending back then) Once I got into a career though I met a lot of the generation above me that were racist assholes. i’m not sure why our gen didn’t win out over the older gen.
The middle eastern immigrants who can in to Western countries in 1970s until the 2000s were mostly educated, affluent, secular, and had a desire to assimilate. The middle eastern immigrants who started coming during the 2010s until now are mostly uneducated, poor, religious extremist, and have zero desire to assimilate. There’s a pretty big shift in the pre and post Arab spring middle eastern immigrants. These immigrants we’re seeing now here in North America and Europe are the real representation of those societies and why they are the way they are.
Yes you should. You have an expressed interest in moving to a new place, learn the laws. Fit in, adapt. None of this hyper religious dogmatic bs. I too am an immigrant.
Not really. If their culture has parts about it you disagree with, you don’t need to adopt those parts.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I don’t have to become a bigot.
This will only make sense if you’re mentally an adult. If you’re still a child mentally, then going along with what other people do just to please them is the only thing that will make sense to you.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I don’t have to become a bigot.
You kinda do though. If you were to move to Russia and loudly voice liberal opinions you will not have a good time. You might not have to adopt the local culture as your own but you can not go against it.
I mean it’s the whole tolerant paradox right. Why should we tolerate absolute douche nozzles to stay? To make things clear I absolutely despise the far right rise going on in Europe, and speaking from a Swedish perspective I feel part of it started with the rise of the right wing Swedish Democrats. But a big reason they got so much air time is because they were the only ones who talked about immigration at all, so they could entirely steer the conversation. Had the other parties actually come up with reasonable polices around immigration in the first place I don’t think SD would be as popular as they are now.
When you view things in the context of a social agreement, there is no longer any paradox.
If these people have broken the social agreement to be tolerant, they have then intentionally and explicitly removed themselves from that agreement, thereby opening themselves up to intolerance thanks to their intentional and explicit rejection of said tolerance.
It’s much the same way as outlawing worked in the old days - in the absence of a police force, you willingly agreed to follow laws that had been laid down. If you openly broke those laws in clear defiance of them, you could be removed from their protections. Ergo, you became “outside the law”, allowing anyone to harm or even kill you without legal censure.
Because if you clearly don’t want to be a part of an agreement, why should you have any right to benefit from it’s protections?
Just human decency, when you move to a new country you adopt their cultural ettiquette and obey their laws. If you move anywhere and tgink you can just be a terrible person while waiting for citizenship, then you don’t represent the country. Its like probation at a job
Not really. If their culture has parts about it you disagree with, you don’t need to adopt those parts.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I don’t have to become a bigot.
This will only make sense if you’re mentally an adult. If you’re still a child mentally, then going along with what other people do just to please them is the only thing that will make sense to you.
I’m a first gen immigrants to the US from Iraq. Immigrants should 100% face consequences for their actions. Immigration is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. People who chose to move to Canada or whatever country have to respect the laws, culture, and customs of the country they’re moving to. If they’re not willing to assimilate or integrate then you get stuff like this. These types of attacks aren’t normal and we shouldn’t normalize them like you’re doing here by trying to coddle these people or give them special treatment because of their backgrounds. If their hateful because their culture or religion is hateful then we have to call them and take steps to ensure that we don’t have that hate spread here. If an immigrant commits a heinous crime, like these homophobes did, and they don’t have citizenship then they HAVE TO get deported. Otherwise there’s no law, order, justice, or accountability. Basically countries like Canada would be no more.
Should be a one-way ticket back to Syria. I immigrated here from America seven years ago, blend in seamlessly with the populace, and I still wouldn’t fuck with a Canadian in fear of being deported (I’m also not an asshole). It’s an absolute privilege to be here and I love this country. It’s crazy to me that anyone else would have the opportunity to come here and then squander it by beating the shit out of a peaceful lesbian couple who are trying to enjoy their night. How incredibly brazen.
We need to focus on proportional representation to keep the conservatives from enabling these kind of thugs.
How are the conservatives enabling them?
Check the hate speech and the rcmp doing nothing of substance towards criminals they agree with
But conservatives don’t agree with these criminals though. Canadian conservatives are pretty vocal against islamism and violent migrants who refuse to integrate and respect Canadian values, including tolerance of LGBT people. Actually it’s pretty similar in the US too even when the conservatives are more extreme.
Ha just like your dear leader Pierre Poilievre hating on trans women. Speaks volumes about someone who got their pension at age 31.
I’m neither conservative nor am I PP supporter. I’m merely pointing out the reality.
Where did it mention Syria?
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I see your point, but I have gay friends here in Montreal that were beat up by regular white dudes just because they were kissing in the street.
And what about the shootings that happened in the States in gay clubs? Those were white Christians.
If people are brought up as bigots, they’re gonna be just that. Regardless of their origin or religion. Though I admit, in some places it’s pretty systemic.
Actually the shooting at gay night clubs in the states are usually not white Christians. The most famous to me was the Pulse night club shooting by Omar Mateen, an Islamic extremist.
I think it’s safe to say that anyone attacking the LGBTQ community is a religious extremist of some variety though.
Yeah, religion of any kind seem to breed bigotry.
citation ?
(legitimately, i’ve been looking for a useful resource for stats like this)
Well, if there are plenty of bigots, why import more?
Both sides. Gotcha.
That’s not at all what I’m saying. And I don’t see how you can even interpret my reply like that.
From a different article;
https://metro.co.uk/2024/07/02/lesbian-couple-beaten-gang-homophobic-attack-birthday-night-21142932/
It’s not comfortable but stories like this are exactly why the right is gaining popularity and if the left continues to pretend not to see them and act like this then of course people aren’t going to take us seriously.
We need articles to give us facts and talking heads to explain what’s being done and what the big plan is to make sure that letting in large quantities of immigrants in doesn’t have negative consequences for regular people.
If we act like we’ve never heard of such things while they are listing distressing examples then the average undecided is going to be swayed their way. As an idealist I wish the world had no boarders, we don’t live in that world and i cant force the.world into it by ignoring reality. all the European countries going right have the same big reason for the shift, we can’t go on pretending that if we ignore people’s concerns and real problems that everyone else will ignore them too.
The “Right” harps on the fact that they are Syrians to somehow paint all Syrians, all Muslims, all immigrants with the same brush, stoking fears of population replacement and other such bullshit.
The “Left” says that we have already laws for mob violence, apply them. Bad people who are Syrians exist just like bad people who are Italians exist and just like bad people who are Americans exist and bad people who are Canadians exist. There is zero reason to weaponize the bad behaviour of those bad people to enact discriminatory policies against an entire community. Just apply the existing law. Persecute these assholes for the homophobic hate crime they did. Why is that not enough? In fact, the only people who would say this would not be enough are people with a hate agenda of their own, i.e., the far right…
There’s a very strange phenomenon in Western left wing circles where there’s a sizable portion that would go out of their way to defend these criminals and their behavior, and even go as far as attacking the victims, just because of their religious or ethnic background which they deem is beyond criticism and anybody who tries to call out these behaviors is racist. Calling out hateful aspects of cultures and religions and actually holding them accountable is not weaponizing anything, that’s just being principled.
I’m in multiple left circles and had literally never heard such a thing, this is a conservative strawman.
You’re either intentionally looking the other way without noticing or you’re in a bubble. You can literally just browse the comments under this post or this very thread to see examples of what I’m talking about
Bro you did the thing right there.
If you condemn and criticize the individuals you would be right: these are vile people who acted out extremist hateful sexist violence. They suck, they should be arrested, tried and have the book thrown at them because their actions are disgusting.
If you want to make it about “cultures” and “religions”, well, you’re offside. You’re extrapolating from a bunch of criminals to entire culture and an even larger religion. That’s bigotry and “the left” would be correct to call you out on it.
Canadians as a whole are not violent islamophobes because some idiot shot up a mosque. Canadian culture is not vile and antisemitic because some other idiot shot up a Jewish school. The Christian religion as a whole is not antidemocratic just because some US evangelical trumpists did the January 6th thing. Same principle applies to Syrians or Muslims as a whole.
This is basic shit.
Ps. And no, the “aspects” caveat doesn’t work. We didn’t have a moral panic about antidemocratic aspects of Christianity because of Jan 6th. But it seems the far right loves to stir panic about “aspects” of Islam or brown people all the fucking time. You want to talk about “aspects” without being a useful idiot for the far right? Raise voices from within that community, who will know exactly how to walk that fine line.
This is what happens when you start sacrificing common sense in favor ideological dogma. See, sometimes issues go beyond individuals. When we see patterns emerging, we have to address the issues as societal problems. When you have one person burning down buildings you have horrid individual, when you have 1000 it’s a societal crises. While we have to criticize the individuals and hold them accountable for their actions, we also have to address the reasons why this is a trend to begin with so we can take steps to actually fix the issue.
You can’t do this red herring where you ignore the trends and the big picture and just have tunnel vision on the one instance. This is what conservatives try to do whenever there’s a school shooting. They’ll do everything but admit that guns are the problem. What you’re doing right now is the same as a conservative going “it’s not the guns, it’s mental health”, “you can’t say it’s guns because there are good gun owners”, or “why don’t we ban cars”. Come on dude, at least try to have a honest conversation about this.
Are you really trying to virtue signal to me the ol’ classic “not all muslims”? At this point you have to be disingenuous. No shit, nobody is implying otherwise. You’re just trying to find every excuse to defend islam and homophobic cultures. No, criticizing a culture or religion is NOT accusing every single individual of that culture or religion of being whatever is criticized. If we follow your own line of logic then criticizing homophobia in the US makes you a bigot because not all Americans are homophobes… Not only is this stating the obvious which nobody is contesting, but it serves no purpose other than to distract and detract from the points being made.
Wtf are you even talking about? We literally did. Not necessarily about Jan 6th because that wasn’t religiously driven, but we have moral panics about Christianity every other month. From book bans to abortion rights to erosion of church and state to whatever. We regularly criticize Christianity for it’s questionable teachings and culture… that’s why it’s presence has weakened so much over the years. Why is it so hard for you to be consistent and apply the same principles to other religions like islam?
Have you ever wondered why the cops didn’t actually do anything to stop the criminals here? How about the many other instances like it in Canada or the UK or Sweden or whatever? It’s because they’re scared of being called racist. This isn’t me making things up, this is an actual thing. Here’s the most famous example from the UK:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-iicsa-racist-fears-b2007649.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28967427
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28951612
Over there they have these massive muslim gangs all over the country that have been systematically young girls for DECADES. The most infamous of these gangs happened in the city of Rotherham where the muslim gang raped over 1400 children for over 30 fucking years. The cops barely did anything about any of it because they were terrified of being called racist. Why? Because every time they try do something morons like you crawl out of the woodworks to call them racist form mobs, berate them, and jeopardize their jobs.
It’s not just the cops, the victims were shunned into silence too. Not by the criminals, but by the supposed “progressive” Labor politicians. For example, this ghoul publicly liked and retweeted a tweet that stated the following:
https://metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/mp-shares-tweet-saying-abuse-victims-should-shut-their-mouths-for-good-of-diversity-6872181/
The worst part is that when you actually hear the stories of the victims, it is the most gut wrenching thing. You have little girls going home from school only to get kidnapped, beaten, and raped repeatedly. Some of the girls even got pregnant and gave birth to babies they were forced to have. Just when these young girls needed the human rights activists, the feminists, the progressives, the police, the politicians, the justice system by their side… they were abandoned by all them. These people either did nothing to not offend the mob or outright defended the criminals. Everything here is a part of the infamous Rotherham child abuse ring:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
However, it should be noted that the raping is still going on today in that same city. It should also be known that Rotherham is NOT the only city. There’s literally dozens of other examples of the same exact thing happening:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse_in_the_United_Kingdom#Notable_incidents
It’s not just the politicians either, the muslims leaders in the city were fully aware of the rapes and they went out of their way to cover them up:
https://www.sanskritimagazine.com/rotherham-child-sexual-exploitation-muslim-leaders-aware-nothing/
The reason why I brought all of this up is to demonstrate how this IS about culture and religion, how it IS a societal issue, how it IS something that goes beyond individuals. Those girls are all humans who had their childhoods robbed from them, some of them might never recover. It’s truly is sad. What’s worse, is that the same issues that prevented the Rotherham case from being brought to light are happening again and again. All of this could have been prevented if people like you stopped this virtue signaling crusade and actually held a set of principles for once. Can you imagine if all the groups I previously mentioned in the UK stuck by their values, called out the problematic aspects of islam and homophobic cultures right away, held the homophobes accountable for their hate, and actually stood by the victims immediately? Perhaps thousands of those girls wouldn’t have ended up as statistics for this ongoing tragedy.
These lesbian girls are the same. They went through something that’s truly horrid, and instead of the LGBT groups, progressives, cops, and so many other supposed allies coming to their rescue… they all instead rushed to victim blame and defend the criminals. These girls aren’t the only LGBT victims in Canada to these types of incidents. Why? Why are we letting people live in fear like this? Why are we not defending the victims? Why are we not calling the vile aspects of islam and islamic cultures? Why are we not deporting these criminals? How many more victims do there need to be? How many more attacks? How many more traumatized souls? What I am saying is so well documented and there are so many examples, that I could give you as many sources and examples as you could possible want. I just want to understand what it will take for you to actually come to your senses and admit that maybe, just maybe, there is a problem with islam, there is a problem with homophobia form islamic cultures, that maybe we need to address it as a society?
Just an FYI, I actually lived in Syria (I lived in a suburb of Damascus called Jaramana from 2006-2009). There’s literally no way you know more about this than me. You’re trying to lecture from a place of ignorance. I’m 100% certain you have no idea what a sahih hadith is or what verse 4:34 says in the quran or what a fatwa is without looking them (which you should). Seriously, you know absolutely nothing about islam, islamic cultures, how muslims view homosexuality, or anything really. The image you have of islam is not based in reality.
Yea, not interested in a culture war.
I wrote multiple times that the perpetrators here should have the book thrown at them. Existing hate crime laws are sufficient for that. Saying that …Canadian cops are scared to act for fear of being called racist is HILARIOUS. This is Canada, buddy, land of kicked-in indian kids’ skulls.
And to cut to the chase, all your long tirade amounts to what exactly? Practically, in practice, in terms of actual policies that you want to see enacted, what are actually you advocating for, what do you want done?
Because we can argue about whether 1 billion Muslims, 2 million of them in Canada are bad people or not until next spring, but ultimately it comes down to good or bad policy. Say your piece.
Lol you’re the one virtue signaling and trying this into something it’s not. I’m giving you actual data backed points about a measurable problem and pointing out how you’re making it worse.
And I very explicitly wrote mutliple times, that you’re master plan is idiotic because it doesn’t actually address the root cause of the problem. Clearly, the current hate crime laws don’t mean shit when these types of incidents are happening and in increasing frequency, not to mention the criminals got away because the cops didn’t do shit.
Brief list of common sense policies:
Literally any of this beats your master plan of doing nothing to address the issue at a societal level and putting your head in the sand.
If this all your two brain cells managed to get out of what I said then I think I can understand why you’re position is the way it is, and I have no interest in wasting my time any further.
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I wondered the same, race was never a thing at our grade achool or highschool either in 80s or 90s. Like it never crossed our minds to think the brown/black kid, they were just kids, and some were the super popular kids. One of my white friends was super into rap and breakdancing and his entire friend circle was black. They called each other niggah as a greating ( but ER ending back then) Once I got into a career though I met a lot of the generation above me that were racist assholes. i’m not sure why our gen didn’t win out over the older gen.
The middle eastern immigrants who can in to Western countries in 1970s until the 2000s were mostly educated, affluent, secular, and had a desire to assimilate. The middle eastern immigrants who started coming during the 2010s until now are mostly uneducated, poor, religious extremist, and have zero desire to assimilate. There’s a pretty big shift in the pre and post Arab spring middle eastern immigrants. These immigrants we’re seeing now here in North America and Europe are the real representation of those societies and why they are the way they are.
If you track down the original posts by the victims they have more details about the attack.
Ah, I saw this posted in two seperate places, and the first instance stated they were from Syria. I thought this was the same article.
You shouldn’t face special punishments just because you’re an immigrant.
This anti-immigration dogwhistling needs to stop. It’s unbecoming for people who aren’t members of the alt-right.
Yes you should. You have an expressed interest in moving to a new place, learn the laws. Fit in, adapt. None of this hyper religious dogmatic bs. I too am an immigrant.
Not really. If their culture has parts about it you disagree with, you don’t need to adopt those parts.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I don’t have to become a bigot.
This will only make sense if you’re mentally an adult. If you’re still a child mentally, then going along with what other people do just to please them is the only thing that will make sense to you.
Assimilate or leave if your culture is intolerant.
Or try to change it from within for those who need it.
Tolerance has a limit
I mean if you move to a country that has equal rights, I think you should try not to brutally beat an lgbt couple because your god hates the gays.
Same thing goes for if you move to a country that doesn’t have equal rights.
You kinda do though. If you were to move to Russia and loudly voice liberal opinions you will not have a good time. You might not have to adopt the local culture as your own but you can not go against it.
I mean it’s the whole tolerant paradox right. Why should we tolerate absolute douche nozzles to stay? To make things clear I absolutely despise the far right rise going on in Europe, and speaking from a Swedish perspective I feel part of it started with the rise of the right wing Swedish Democrats. But a big reason they got so much air time is because they were the only ones who talked about immigration at all, so they could entirely steer the conversation. Had the other parties actually come up with reasonable polices around immigration in the first place I don’t think SD would be as popular as they are now.
When you view things in the context of a social agreement, there is no longer any paradox.
If these people have broken the social agreement to be tolerant, they have then intentionally and explicitly removed themselves from that agreement, thereby opening themselves up to intolerance thanks to their intentional and explicit rejection of said tolerance.
It’s much the same way as outlawing worked in the old days - in the absence of a police force, you willingly agreed to follow laws that had been laid down. If you openly broke those laws in clear defiance of them, you could be removed from their protections. Ergo, you became “outside the law”, allowing anyone to harm or even kill you without legal censure.
Because if you clearly don’t want to be a part of an agreement, why should you have any right to benefit from it’s protections?
Everyone should be able to decide what country they swear allegiance to.
The only thing we do not tolerate is intolerance.
Just human decency, when you move to a new country you adopt their cultural ettiquette and obey their laws. If you move anywhere and tgink you can just be a terrible person while waiting for citizenship, then you don’t represent the country. Its like probation at a job
Not really. If their culture has parts about it you disagree with, you don’t need to adopt those parts.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I don’t have to become a bigot.
This will only make sense if you’re mentally an adult. If you’re still a child mentally, then going along with what other people do just to please them is the only thing that will make sense to you.
Thats why i said ettiquette not culture on its own. The good parts you should so
I’m a first gen immigrants to the US from Iraq. Immigrants should 100% face consequences for their actions. Immigration is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. People who chose to move to Canada or whatever country have to respect the laws, culture, and customs of the country they’re moving to. If they’re not willing to assimilate or integrate then you get stuff like this. These types of attacks aren’t normal and we shouldn’t normalize them like you’re doing here by trying to coddle these people or give them special treatment because of their backgrounds. If their hateful because their culture or religion is hateful then we have to call them and take steps to ensure that we don’t have that hate spread here. If an immigrant commits a heinous crime, like these homophobes did, and they don’t have citizenship then they HAVE TO get deported. Otherwise there’s no law, order, justice, or accountability. Basically countries like Canada would be no more.
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What a clown lmao
Ironic.