The average American doesn’t know what capitalism, socialism, communism, or fascism means. They don’t know what representative democracy means. They don’t know what first past the post means. They don’t even know that they have an electoral college let alone its role. The 3 branches of government are largely a mystery. And most Americans are under some kind of impression that the POTUS is some kind of benevolent dictator.
I’m not surprised that someone on twitter thinks capitalism solves poverty.
That’s fair, but that’s all the more reason why it is the duty of Leftists to read and spread Marxist theory!
“I resent the average american, someone smarter like me should dictate their lives”
Not a criticism of you, you’re free to have your own opinion. I’m just saying the quiet part out loud.
You’re arguing against your imagination.
I’m restating what was said.
It wasn’t though
Where do you believe it differs?
Alright, I’ll bite
someone smarter like me should dictate their lives
You added that as what you imagined the original poster’s point was, yet I see no call for action in their post. They simply made an observation. This would be like me saying “I notice that wild animals can often be aggressive when they have young children to protect”, then someone else acting like my solution would therefore be to prevent them from having children.
It’s a wild and unfounded extrapolation made from your preconceived notion of how this person thinks, based solely on their distain for the ignorance they’ve observed. I’ve seen many who make the same observation but their proposed solutions were better education, not dictatorial rule.
You added that as what you imagined the original poster’s point was, yet I see no call for action in their post.
That’s true and a fair criticism. I think its a pretty probable guess though.
but their proposed solutions were better education
Education is a complicated matter in itself, that I’d rather not get involved in here, but Prussian schooling has a long history of politically motivated meddling.
I read it as pro-political education. Something that many Americans are dearly missing
Something that many Americans are dearly missing
Yeah this is what I’m talking about.
I find it confusing why you put that in quotes, then suggest it’s not necessarily their opinion, but following it up by implying that was the implied statement.
The guy just said American political literacy is embarrassingly lacking, which is far worse than what is needed for a functional democracy. Which has nothing to do with your “interpretation”
then suggest it’s not necessarily their opinion,
I believe it is their opinion, I suggested that pointing that out isn’t a criticism. Its a very common opinion.
The guy just said American political literacy is embarrassingly lacking
Because they don’t know esoteric terms nerds like us argue about on the internet. They do know what they believe is right and wrong, and what they value in their lives. They vote for people who talk about what they value. You can criticize what they value, but that’s just pitting your values against theirs. You can also criticize them for trusting, but if the last 20 years has shown anything, voters are actually not that much worse than technocratic governments at figuring out lies. And most lies that trick voters are lies to the people that tell them, or believe them.
Gotcha. It’s very effective if you want to make up stuff, and then argue that. But, in that case, don’t you have better things to do?
It’s very effective if you want to make up stuff, and then argue that.
Thanks for the insight.
But, in that case, don’t you have better things to do?
Procrastinating is fun.
I think you’re doing yourself a disservice here by calling these terms esoterica. Political ideologies being clearly defined and understood on a wide scale is not a negative thing. Most of the terms here in this dude’s post are talked about as solutions (or status quo) in the current era, all of it should be fresh unless you willfully ignore every single political post on every social media you use.
Way more importantly: You really think the last 20 years were a shining example of public intelligence? Truly? With the denialism, the outright lies that have been signal boosted, the public outrage over hypothetical people and made-up organizations who never existed? How can you justify saying “these terms are esoteric” when they are literally modern? How can you justify this position you’re taking where low/no information being the norm needs to be enforced for things to be “normal” for you? You’re flippantly dismissing the idea that people could have opinions or motivations you aren’t instantly aware of, which is stupid beyond belief.
The entirety of democratic politics is conflicting opinion/value/ideology being weighed by the many. What the hell is the problem with letting people who are informed talk about it in a public space?
Political ideologies being clearly defined and understood on a wide scale is not a negative thing.
I think the concept of a political ideology needs to die. People not identifying with them and instead listening to peoples actual ideas is a good thing. Essentially everyone has a unique set of values shaped by their experience, they should listen to and interpret the ideas of others based on those values- instead of trying to categorize them and build an identity off them. Its a similar problem to the DSM, and leads to tribalism.
You really think the last 20 years were a shining example of public intelligence?
I think way more people are questioning authority figures, though that might be recency bias.
the outright lies that have been signal boosted
When before the lies were the narrative.
How can you justify saying “these terms are esoteric” when they are literally modern?
They exist to categorize ideas and people into neat little boxes, rather than actually evaluate individual ideas. They are also totally ineffective for communication, when each boxer disagrees where and what the boxes are.
How can you justify this position you’re taking where low/no information being the norm needs to be enforced for things to be “normal” for you?
Where did I say that?
You’re flippantly dismissing the idea that people could have opinions or motivations you aren’t instantly aware of
When did I do that? Instead I’m stating my own opinions, and I’m happy to hear yours.
What the hell is the problem with letting people who are informed talk about it in a public space?
When did I try to stop that, I’m one of the nerds I was talking about.
I had to read the second post twice to understand what it’s saying due to the non-standard grammar. But I’m a foreign speaker.
I’m asking an honest question out of curiosity: Was this easily legible to you?
“Ain’t” can be kind of difficult. It can mean “are not,” “am not,” “is not,” “has not,” or “have not.” Aside from that, the statements should be separated with a period, and “it’s” was used instead of “is it.” Also, they use “the fuck” instead of “what the fuck.”
“Ain’t” is pretty common in casual speech now, and the rest is relatively common in internet speech, so it was pretty easy to read for me.
“Capitalism hasn’t solved white people’s poverty. What the fuck is it going to do for us?”
Yes, it was very clear (native speaker here). Something like this is more commonly spoken than written, so I can see why it might be confusing. If your experiencing with English is more formal (via education, reading, etc) vs talking to a whole bunch of different people, that would explain it.
I’m a native English speaker and had no issue… but I come across (or hear) contractions like “ain’t” often enough that it barely registers as being non-standard… just much less formal, really. Some punctuation might’ve helped you here.
Was this easily legible to you?
Yes, very easily.
English doesn’t have one standard grammar, but yeah this was pretty easy to understand for me.
The main disconnect is they contracted “is it” into “it’s” when “it’s” is normal a posessive like that is mine, e.g. it’s mine. Aka “the fuck is it going to do” or “the fuck’s it going to do” would have been correct. At least I think so as a native speaker but someone with more knowledge on grammar might have more insight.
Capitalism is a free market.
Capitalism is, for example, being able to buy a pack of cigarettes at $15 and sell them $2 a pop on the street to make $40.
We don’t have a free market; therefore we don’t have capitalism.
Capitalism is a form of commodity production of competing Capital Owners that pay wage laborers to sell commodities on a market, seeking further and further accmulation.
Capitalism tends to monopolize into syndicates and eliminate its own competition. This doesn’t mean it isn’t still Capitalism, just that it’s becoming Imperialism, ie moribund Capitalism, and that it is becoming ripe for central planning and public siezure. Capitalism develops towards Socialism, once the proletariat siezes control.
$15 cigarettes?? Doesn’t sound like a free market to me!!
While on its face true. This is the libertarian equivalent of saying the USSR was not communist.
It isn’t true on its face or otherwise.
Capitalism is a form of commodity production of competing Capital Owners that pay wage laborers to sell commodities on a market, seeking further and further accmulation.
Capitalism tends to monopolize into syndicates and eliminate its own competition. This doesn’t mean it isn’t still Capitalism, just that it’s becoming Imperialism, ie moribund Capitalism, and that it is becoming ripe for central planning and public siezure. Capitalism develops towards Socialism, once the proletariat siezes control.
Meanwhile, the USSR absolutely was Socialist, complete with public ownership, a dictatorship of the proletariat, central planning, and more.
Actually, I think it’s a system which uses a medium of exchange to facilitate trade, e.g. capital. As opposed to a barter system. You can have a capitalist system without a free market. I think you could even have a communist system which uses capital to assign value, technically.
Not quite.
Capitalism is a form of commodity production of competing Capital Owners that pay wage laborers to sell commodities on a market, seeking further and further accmulation.
Capitalism tends to monopolize into syndicates and eliminate its own competition. This doesn’t mean it isn’t still Capitalism, just that it’s becoming Imperialism, ie moribund Capitalism, and that it is becoming ripe for central planning and public siezure. Capitalism develops towards Socialism, once the proletariat siezes control.
Capitalist action to support communist ideals.
Analysis of true, lifetime cost tacked onto the purchase price.
FD Signifier is THE youtuber that i listen to on black issues, and this reminds me a lot of this video
Rest in power. Fuck the Chicago PD.
It’s so, so sad that none of them, or the FBI, has had to pay for their crimes. Not to mention all the other murders the US has committed around the globe. The people who planned and carried out these murders haven’t paid for them in the slightest.
Excuse me, may I deposses you of this image? It would be a fine addition to my collection.
Of course, memes are communal.
I think it’s fucking bullshit they murdered Fred Hampton and got away with it.
White capitalism is what made black people slaves and pushed them into poverty.
Perhaps we need new ideas that help everyone.
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Capitalism and slavery are incompatible.
I don’t know who stole your history book, but you should probably go look for it.
It was Marx, Marx stole it.
What on Earth does that mean?
Dumb joke because I was just responding to an insult
Why not? Capitalism is private control over the factors of production - it’s not “equal freedom” or anything like that. The American South was capitalist during chattel slavery.
And that’s not even getting into wage slavery.
Capitalism is private control over the factors of production
If someone is legally exercising force over someone else, they are a de facto entity of the state.
Yep, capitalism is inherently statist. Ancapistan is just a bunch of little states.
Controlling yourself means you have monopoly on force on yourself, meaning you are a state consisting of just yourself? Sounds like a pretty chill state.
Capitalism is private control over the factors of production
Capitalism is private control over the factors of production
Controlling yourself
🤡
Are you just making up phrases at this point? Show us where in the definition of capitalism that human rights exist.
From DuckDuckGo:
- An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
- An economic system based on predominantly private (individual or corporate) investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and wealth; contrasted with socialism or especially communism, in which the state has the predominant role in the economy.
- A socio-economic system based on private property rights, including the private ownership of resources or capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.
- A socio-economic system based on the abstraction of resources into the form of privately-owned capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.
- A specific variation or implementation of either such socio-economic system.
- An economic system based on private ownership of capital.
This isn’t necessary for all of them, but from Wikipedia:
A state is a political entity that regulates society and the population within a territory.
Slave masters are regulators of population, so they are an actor of the state.
White capitalism
This is just called capitalism.
I mean, it gives deference to rich people, but when it was legal to discriminate against POC, they had a massive disadvantage in pretty much every aspect of their lives. Not perfect, but much improved now…
Capitalism is the Sociopath’s Ideology and hence it will always promote the use of any power advantages to exploit the less powerful, with no consideration for the fellings of others or harm done to them, for fairness or for morality.
Which is why it had to be something outside Capitalism to push for fairer treatment of POC and even then every single day in America it’s an uphill fight for those amongst them who remain disadvantaged: that previous exploitation of them as powerless due to their ethnicity meant that when the discriminatory treatment on the color of their skin was reduced (not eliminated, but certainly comparativelly much reduced), they ended up poor people and hence still the victims of discrimination and exploitation, because the poor too are less powerful than most and hence exploited to the max under Capitalism, and as an overexploited group it’s incredibly harder for them to pull themselves out of poverty or help their children do so, which means that situation is entrenched.
Technically Capitalism isn’t an ideology, but a state in development of the productive forces. Liberalism is the ideology of Capitalism.
Also Black Wall Street got hate crimed off the face of the earth, so I’d say “white capitalism” is fair enough.
Africans enslaved and sold other Africans by the millions for centuries before white people arrived on the continent. Though they certainly made it worse when they did.
People enslaved their opponents in war for essentially as long as humans have existed, until we decided slavery was an evil we should avoid. However, this was not generally chattel slavery. Usually their offspring were not slaves and they were not bread to create more slaves, like livestock.
This is a good read if you want to learn more.
I’m not sure you have enough of a historical framework on population to make the claim you’re mindlessly repeating, but I appreciate that you “people” out yourselves so readily so normal humans can avoid you. Good luck on truth social or Facebook or x I guess.
I think their point was fair, Rome had slavery unrelated to color, as did many other places.
They did not have chattel slavery.
Why does that distinction matter?
It matters a lot. Chattel slavery is what Europe brought to Africa. It’s a particularly violent and cruel form of slavery. The “Africans also had slaves” argument is a fallacious one as the systems of slavery were very different. We could say the same thing for “wage slavery” today to demonize that or to lessen the hatred of chattel slavery. The intent of the message was to dismiss the harm, which should not be done.
It’s still exploiting them. I don’t think it was intended to dismiss the harm at all.
Ah of course, European exceptionalism.
True? Yes.
Funny? Not really.
/c/depressing would be a better fit
agitprop does tend to get miscategorized, but “capitalism didn’t solve white poverty,” as-rendered there, registers to me as a grim punchline.
Except it’s done more to solve it since anything that preceded it, so it’s not only not funny, it’s a misleading/disingenuous talking point.
it’s done more to solve it since anything that preceded it
Maybe, but the guys in OP aren’t talking about going back to feudalism or bringing back the roman empire or anything else that preceded capitalism. It’s misleading to restrict yourself to systems that came before capitalism, and not the one that lifted a billion dirt poor farmers out of poverty and created a space-faring civilization within a single lifetime.
Capitalism can’t help anyone out of poverty at least not without exploiting masses.
In 1800, 80% of the world lived in extreme poverty. Now it’s under 10%.
Fact is, the vast majority of the so-called “exploit[ed]masses” rose out of poverty over the same period of time that capitalism established itself as the primary economic system the world over.
So who were they all exploiting, to get out of poverty? Each other?
Funnily enough, it was the USSR and PRC that had the largest impact on poverty elimination in the 20th century.
Just exploit the whites? Big brain
Capitalism has race now? Or are they suggesting to use race as a product?
“Black capitalism” is historically the approach of some African American* communities and individuals to resist racial oppression by embracing capitalism and out-competing whites in it, essentially. This met its most famous manifestation in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which developed a wealthy black capitalist class, but neighboring white towns got mad at this and basically leveled a good portion of the town and killed many people. For reasons beyond me, some liberals hold up Tulsa as some wonderful thing and proof that black people should just be more engaged in capitalism, and they ignore how the experiment ended.
The most famous “black capitalism” proponent is the Jamaican-born American Marcus Garvey, who some Rastafarians worship as a prophet. To poison the well immediately, he was supported by the KKK in his projects to send African Americans “back to” Africa, because their ideologies and aims of ethnonationalism broadly aligned.
*It’s mostly an American thing, but it’s not exclusively an American thing by any means
For reasons beyond me, some liberals hold up Tulsa as some wonderful thing and proof that black people should just be more engaged in capitalism, and they ignore how the experiment ended.
The easy answer is that racism destroyed Tulsa, not capitalism. Were it not for racist fucks, that experiment would have worked wonderfully. But that’s a tale as old as time, unfortunately.
If racism just sprang from the ground or from defects in people’s souls, that would make sense. Racism is a superstructural tool of capitalism. It’s a little more obvious how the two are in union when you look at things like the Transatlantic slave trade, but keeping black people as an underclass serves in capital’s interest to this day.
Racism is a superstructural tool of capitalism.
That’s ridiculous. So many explicitly racist movements have also been explicitly capitalist. Racism is a tool of tribalism and collectivism. Capitalism is an individualistic system.
So… corporate collusion between black businesses owners? I suppose that would equalize the market a bit if they do manage to kick down corps like amazon
Capitalism has always had a form of race, but it’s a social hierarchy.
Class.
It has always been class. The lie that gets sold to middle America is that one day, they too will be of a higher class.
You know that’s really a brilliant rebuttal.
I agree, white capitalism is so last year, get with the latest fashion and use black capitalism.
It is past September.
Socialism is a cancer and Capitalism is, uh what cures cancer?
Or maybe race doesn’t really exist outside our dumb little brains and capitalism was the real problem all along
Not to imply that ethnic/cultural tensions never existed before in history, but capitalism created racism as a tool of oppression, and of pitting working class people against each other.
capitalism created racism as a tool of oppression
Except that is simply not true. Capitalism is far more recent that racism, unless of course you define capitalism as just “everything bad”. Racism exist because of tribalism and collectivism, capitalism is a recent individualist system- and individualism amongst governments is fairly recent.
I am not defining capitalism as just everything bad, and capitalism is not as recent as you think. You may be thinking of industrial capitalism, which is a more recent development.
Historical Foundations of Race
American society developed the notion of race early in its formation to justify its new economic system of capitalism, which depended on the institution of forced labor, especially the enslavement of African peoples.
I am not defining capitalism as just everything bad, and capitalism is not as recent as you think.
No that’s pretty recent, racism is millennia old. Furthermore, yes mixed economies exist, actually now they’re basically the only thing that exists.
American society developed the notion of race early in its formation to justify its new economic system of capitalism, which depended on the institution of forced labor, especially the enslavement of African peoples.
I disagree that it was capitalism that needed racism to be justified, since slavery is anti-capitalistic. But yes, fake “racial science” was used to justify slavery, that however was not the origin of racism. Roman and Greek and many other empires used ethnic/racial division to justify their oppression. Even the Mongols whose empire was “cool and accepting” by ancient empire standards still had strong sentiments of a Mongol race being different from others.
Brains are part of the world, and so are human behaviors. So long as racism exists, race as a sociological category is undeniably real.
Indeed brains are real and we are really fucking good at making the consequences of said brain’s beliefs just as real. But, recognizing that things such as race have absolutely no scientific, empirical basis whatsoever is kinda a really important step in repairing the racist damage that we’ve done. Race is only useful in sociology as long as we continue to pretend it exists, otherwise it serves no purpose other than as an excuse to hate each other.
Capitalism or socialism or anything else is irrelevant when most people are dumb, easy to manipulate and ready to harm others. There will always be someone willing to be a leader of these people, harming others to gain something.
“I am 14 and this is deep” material here. No analysis of anything, no thoughts, just an edgy nothingburger.
What about Socialism is “irrelevant” if most people are “dumb?”
