I think must of us are missing the fact that the second to last panel his ‘smile’ is a grimace because he has severed the afflicted hand.
I’ll let you discuss what is meant by this.
I actually never interpreted it that way - I though it was just showing it getting worse - but that’s a good point and you may be right. It could be showing that he “fixed” the problem by pretending it doesn’t exist as much as he can around others, since none of them take it seriously anyway. Of course, that won’t help anything and will likely make it worse.
Oh hey, I have something for this.
From experience, ‘making it somebody else’s problem’ by asking for help, rarely ends well or gets you the help you need. It just makes you an annoyance and look bad, and eventually people (healthcare workers included) decide you’re malingering and/or attention seeking and start treating you even worse.
Isn’t life fun.
Long story about healthcare workers.
I went to the ER for chest pains this summer. EKG was good, did a scan, and didn’t see any blockages. They determined it was probably heart burn.
I started taking prevacid and that helped but I still wasn’t feeling great. Doc said to try the three main over the counter heart burn drugs to see what worked. So I tried nexium next.
By the time I finished that bottle I was feeling very nauseous, dizzy and would get sharp quick headaches that lasted a few seconds. On top of that still feeling pain in my left shoulder/ chest area. It got to the point that one day at work I just felt so bad I had to go back to the ER.
Another round of scans and tests and they still said the old ticker looked good but did give me an IV and anti nausea that helped. The ER doc this time asked if I had anxiety and I said sure because at that moment I was very worried about my health.
They discharged me and I went home for the day and set up some doctors appointments. I went to my doc and talked about everything going on and she looked at the test results. Then she says the ER doc says you have anxiety and gives me a bunch of pamphlets about mental health and suggests talk therapy.
I’ve got nothing against therapy and could probably use some, but I don’t think it’s the cause of my chest problems. I was perfectly fine before the first ER visit. Anyways I fired her and went looking for a new doctor.
I found one and set up a physical. We did all the basics and he went over all my tests results. I felt like I was being listened to and we were getting somewhere.
His big suggestion was to lose weight… Again not a bad idea but maybe not the core of the problem. He thought that or nerve pain.
Well losing weight seems more appropriate than talk therapy so I set out doing that for a few months. I’m down about 15 lbs, got another 30 to go. Hasn’t really helped, but I am looking better.
In the mean time I’m still taking prevacid because that helped and I didn’t have any side effects. Except one time I bought a bottle of Prilosec instead by accident. I got about halfway through and started feeling dizzy, and nauseous again, so I cut that out and went back to prevacid.
I looked it up and turns out Prilosec and Nexium are closely related and do have those side effects. Nexium just was worse for me. Prevacid is a completely unrelated drug and does not cause me issues. So second ER was probably all from the Nexium and no one caught that despite me informing them of what meds I was taking.
We also scheduled a colonoscopy and endoscopy to look for a root cause of heart burn issues but found none. The new doc who told me to lose weight said let’s try a nerve blocker so I said okay. Turns out it’s also an anti anxiety med as well… so I think that suggestion was based off ER doc saying I’m anxious.
I decided to take it anyway even though I don’t think I need anti anxiety meds. It’s been two weeks and shoulder pain is pretty much gone which is great but I’m having way too many side effects from this drug. Wake up in sweats, always thirsty, low libido etc.
I go back next week to talk to doc about it see if there’s something else to try since this path seems to be working.
Getting diagnosed with adhd and autism as an afab took me till my late 20’s and 30’s respectively, despite having been in therapy from childhood and then seeking MH help regularly throughout my teens and early 20’s for audhd related difficulties.
Every single one of my symptoms and problems were easily explained by my having undiagnosed audhd, or very convolutedly (and often times offensively) attributed to a myriad of other MH conditions. Guess what ended up happening? And guess how much the private healthcare cost to sort it all out?
Solidarity yo. I hope you find out what is ailing you before it becomes too damaging!
I wish so many comments on this post didn’t support what you’re saying. And the guy in the comic isn’t even asking for help, just showing that he’s suffering.
I wish the world was a better place too. On the plus side, what with WW3 and climate collapse on the horizon, at least it will all be over soon.
Yeah, but unless we’re mercifully nuked into oblivion, it will be a very slow, painful demise.
Not that slow, we’re going to be 40% over capacity on fresh water globally by 2030, and 90% of topsoil globally is at risk of depletion by 2050. And what with how hot it’s getting, it’s likely a blue ocean event will trigger the clathrate gun to go off within the next decade, if not sooner.
Google those at your own peril.
The comic character is doing it “right” by not making it the other guy’s problem.
Part of the problem is that there’s a gray area on this discussion and easy to find yourself on either side.
On the one side, “my hand has been crushed and I need immediate medical attention” is something other people need to respect. And “I can’t help you with both hands because one of them is crushed” is something other people need to respect. And “my chronic hand pain makes me grumpy”, too.
On the other, if you’re not talking to a doctor or asking for help getting to a doctor, starting every conversation with “My hand hurts” begs the question “what do you want me to do about it?” And if every request to socialize is met with “Can’t do anything hand hurts”, eventually you stop getting calls.
So what’s the fair middle ground? Hard to say and varies heavily by audience. But people do love to paint on the extreme ends without addressing the mushy middle.
Yeh, mental health issues are just health issues.
It took me a while to realise that. A broken brain (whether Alzheimer’s, chronic depression or whatever) is just like a broken leg (or broken arm, or chronic back pain or whatever).You don’t ask someone with a broken leg or chronic back pain to help you move house.
I guess it’s easier to tell when someone has a physical injury, which probably removes some of the stigma around talking about it.By “guy in the comic” I meant the original comic I posted. The one you posted comes off as mean to me. It’s great that “not great” guy isn’t doing badly enough that he feels the need to talk about his problems and he even acknowledges that he’s considering the other guy’s feelings, while the other guy comes off as, “Phew, I was just making small talk and don’t actually care how you’re doing.”
the other guy comes off as, “Phew, I was just making small talk and don’t actually care how you’re doing.”
What if the other guy is also depressed or otherwise dealing with his own shit and just looking for pleasant socialization rather than emotional baggage carrying?
Is it possible for two people to enjoy each other’s company without airing all their dirty laundry on each other?
Then he could say, “I’m sorry to hear that you’re not doing great. I hope things get better!”
That wouldn’t make for a pithy comic punchline
True!
Dude should maybe consider seeing a doctor about his “hand”.
This would be the correct response when you met them.
Which shows you have the right idea.Instead of this comment, which is victim blaming.
You are presenting yourself as the same as all the other characters in the comic.The correct response would be “none of the other characters told them to get help, or tried to help them”.
This is about others not taking depression seriously. The difficulty in getting treatment is another matter.
Thats why they put hand in quotes… it was sarcasm implying that the character needs to see a doctor about his depression
Yes, I know. As I said, not the point of the comic.
I was sad once and then I realized that I can control my emotions and decided not to be sad.
That’s great that you didn’t have chronic depression! Millions of others do.
Glad that worked for you…now try living a few billion other people’s lives and tell me it works.
That’s impossible, I can only experience me
Any time I’m having strong feelings, simply turn off my emotions and become an automaton that exists to serve others.
My bosses love it. I’m going straight to the top. And once I’m finally in charge, I’ll be free to dump all my emotional baggage on my underlings while insisting they need to toughen up.
I was sad once and then I realized that I cannot control my emotions and was forced to remain sad
A lot of children never learned how to regulate their emotions and are now adults
The others would probably take his problem a lot more seriously if he had at least tried to get it fixed. If you are going to walk around with a mangled blood gushing hand for a prolonged period of time, without seeking help, then you should probably stop whining about it, because I can’t do anything for you. I can’t force you to go to a doctor.
A lot of these comments are really proving the point of the comic. Nowhere does it say that anybody took his ailment seriously, yet it’s the victim who’s at fault.
To wit: everyone in the comic is dismissive of the ailment; none offers any real help or empathy.
Correct. And many of the comments immediately jump to (probably personal) experiences where a friend or loved one had depression and despite their best efforts to help, they were unable to. That’s not what this comic is about.
The victim isn’t at fault for being depressed, or having a mangled hand, or whatever analogy we want to use. However, if they go out with friends and expect them to take the problem more seriously than they, themselves, are taking it, then they have some measure of fault for imposing their problem on the friend. If they are seeking treatment that just isn’t working, or they are unable to get proper treatment for other reasons, that’s a different story and I’ll have a lot more sympathy.
It all boils down to not expecting someone to take your problem seriously for long if you are not taking it seriously yourself.
“You don’t take your depression seriously enough for me” helps me to understand where some people who don’t understand (or don’t care to understand) depression at all are coming from.
Maybe the real lesson is that a mangled hand actively gushing blood isn’t really a great analogy for depression.
It’s a very imperfect one, yes. But the comic is trusting that the reader will understand the metaphor. A big ask for some, it seems.
If you are going to walk around with a mangled blood gushing hand for a prolonged period of time, without seeking help
Some wounds don’t heal.
If the comic suggested that he sought help in the past and it wasn’t working, it would be a much better analogy. Unfortunately, we only know what’s actually shown.
Goddamn, way to make me flashback.
There was a point in my life where I was facing homelessness, was constantly job searching but hearing nothing back, and had to count coins to make sure I could afford to eat each day. Not only that, but the closest family member, who had invited me to stay with them if things went tits up, had just died two days before in a sudden and tragic way.
And my then-bf dragged me to a bar, where he and all his friends told me to “just let it go” and “loosen up” as if the basement rock of my world hadn’t just eroded out from under me. I sure as shit couldn’t afford bar prices, and not a single one of the group offered to get me anything, leaving me stone sober while they all got shitfaced. I ended up crying alone in the bathroom for an hour, and when I came back out, “bf” was getting a fucking lap dance from his friend’s fiancee.
That wasn’t even the worst part of the night. It definitely got darker before the light returned.
I’m okay now, over a decade later, in an infinitely-better place with supportive friends and partners. But man, what a journey.
“I can’t, because of my hand. My hand hurts so much. Life sucks because of this hand.”
“You should go to a doctor to show your hand”
“No! It won’t help anything! And it costs money. And I don’t know how to or want to anyway.”
I’ve seen that too, where the person doesn’t want to actually even try to help themselves.
Which of course is a symptom.
“My leg is broken” “Then walk to the hospital, duh” “I can’t, my leg is broken” “Why are you choosing to live in pain?!”
Then you carry them to the hospital and they don’t want to get treatment but they sure as hell want you to keep carrying them around. Been in that situation and it really sucks.
“Well you could call a taxi”
“I don’t know how to besides it costs money and time…”
“Well fine, I could drive you”
“No I got other stuff to do.”
“Just give me a time and I’ll do it”
“I don’t know when ugh…”
At that point people will just stop trying since it’s always the same wall.
But they saw it was a serious matter and tried. The people in the comic haven’t even reached that point yet.
It could’ve happened before this
Their comments don’t make it seem so. Nobody says they’ve tried to help him, only that he should get over it.
In the real life discussions I never have or heard about the prior times as trying to give advice either
A therapists saying about behaviors like this is “then the suffering isn’t big enough yet.”
And when the doctor decides you’re an attention seeking malingerer and refuses to help, what then?
Don’t stop until you get help.
I’m lucky to have a colleague who identified I was depressed, and had gone through a similar scenario.
Don’t stop until you feel you’ve been heard, until you’ve been listened to, until you agree with the doctor.
Don’t fucking stopIf it is the first doctor to say that, I’d seek another opinion. If it’s the second or third, well maybe…
Let me guess, you’re a man? A most likely white, cis and straight, man.
How am I doing?
Kinda creepy to start asking and assuming like that…
Ask some of the women in your life about what it’s like trying to access healthcare. Ask how often they’re listened to by doctors and how much respect is given when they say something is wrong.
You think it’s hard to access healthcare where I live? Why…?
You’re making awfully lot of assumptions about other people ngl. Assuming their country is less weird but gender, sexuality, all that gets pretty weird.
Analysis: Women’s pain is routinely underestimated, and gender stereotypes are to blame
There are hundreds more papers like this from many different countries.
There are also hundreds of reddit threads about this, with thousands upon thousand of replies from women all over the world, who also attest to it.
And queer men usually have some understanding of intersectional feminism these days, and have likely experienced some form of medical discrimination due to homophobia.
Not to mention folk of colour in predominantly white countries, who also regularly face medical discrimination.
So not believing that women (and female presenting folk) have a harder time accessing the healthcare they need, is yes, a very straight, white, male privileged point of view.
I do admit though that I am just guessing you are white and living in either the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, UK or Western Europe, mostly based on the fediverse demographic.
Trying to get someone to reframe their perspective in such a aggressive manner helps no one. Everyone has gaps in their experiences so let’s assume the best before lashing out
Can you show me where I’m bring aggressive and lashing out please?
Notice how the “friends” are completely dismissive of the hand? If they actually thought it was cause for concern, that would be an improvement.
We don’t know how long this has been going on. If it’s been years and years of this, I get it.
If encouraging him to see a doctor were something they were doing, the comic would have shown that.
what is this, the hand again
They do seem to have been through this before.
And it’s heavily implied it was brushed off before as well. No “I’ve tried to help you,” but rather “It’s not a big deal, get over it.”
Well obviously the comic has that as the point, even though very similar situations have people who have tried to help but have been brushed off
Sure, but that’s not this situation. First they have to actually care to get to that point.
This comic hits the nail on the head for me. When speaking with doctors and therapists, I would describe the depression as non-physical mental pain. Like I don’t feel sad and I don’t feel like I am a bad person, but it’s like my mind hurts and I still feel like shit.
Is this some kind of metaphor?
Yes.
It took almost 2 fucking years after my first initial appointment to get properly medicated.
I’d literally kill myself if I was forced to do it all again.
You “just go see a doctor”–folk have no idea how fucking difficult it is to 1). actually be seen by a competent doctor, 2). be taken seriously, 3). and actually receive treatment for mental health stuff.
That’s not even including the whole “getting out of a shit enough headspace to actually do all that stuff in the first place.”
Unmedicated me felt like wading through hell.
Be kind to those with different chemistry. Shit sucks.
My first GP phonecall to get an in-person appointment resulted in a tiny piece of paper with suicide/help hotlines, and an ADHD form.
I was worried about ADHD and Bipolar. I wasn’t myself. At all. It got pretty bad.After an in person appointment and me failing to fill in my form, a referral to a psychiatrist wasn’t justified and I heard no more.
I eventually seeked private healthcare for this.
And proper private healthcare, not that fucking “better health” or whatever that YouTube ad is. From actual doctors from an actual clinic.
After a 1 hour consultation and £300, I felt listened to.
The psychiatrist identified both ADHD and Bipolar traits, but said they were not significant enough compared to the depression. Treat the depression first, then circle back to the other possible issues.6 months on SNRIs, and I can’t believe the difference.
I don’t feel like I’m struggling with memory loss. The traits I thought could be ADHD (hyperfocus sessions and yet easily distracted - exclusively) became manageable. The every day tasks suddenly were accomplishable. I haven’t tracked my mood very closely, but I’m either on a 2 month hypomania streak or this is actually just what I’m normally like and I can’t remember what feeling normal actually is. So maybe any bipolar I do have isn’t impacting my life so much.It took 6 months between the GP disappointment and seeking private care for it.
It’s the best fucking £300 I’ve ever spent.
The reason I got there, as opposed to accepting the GPs diagnosis, was a colleague talked about their experience. They talked about their depression, a failed visit to a GP, seeking a 2nd opinion, getting meds, and turning their life around.
They said “don’t stop until you feel heard. Don’t stop until you agree with the doctor”.I’m very sorry for you.
FWIW, I had the totally opposite experience. Went to the nearest GP with no appointment, rattled down a long list of physical symptoms, then a long list of things that currently distress me. You could almost hear it click when they connected the dots. Got the good stuff immediately and it changed everything. Maybe it’s something to do with socialized medicine (I live in Europe), IDK.This^
My GP called to mock and say she hadn’t called the crisis help for an appointment yet. Two weeks she let fly by. No doubt more if it wasn’t for a family member calling her.
I want medication for my ADHD and instead the doctors I would see kept trying different antidepressants. None of them helped. In fact most just added more problems, like not being able to get an erection, weight gain, and fatigue. I would tell them and they would either switch to a different antidepressant or up the dosage.
I know the cause of my depression and I want to treat that; not the fucking symptoms of depression itself. But I also have shitty insurance that’s only accepted by 2 different networks of health care where I am, and they are so understaffed for the mental health shit that making an appointment anywhere is always 6 to 8 months away, and even if you show up the doctor might not.
And that’s not even taking into account the miseries of:
1: Fighting with insurance to let you have what you desperately need at a price that wouldn’t bankrupt you.
2: Fighting with your pharmacy over prescription issues.
3: Dealing with sudden nationwide shortages.
Fuck…
Even once I had a great doctor who knew what I had, it still took nearly two years to find a medication that worked for me with side-effects that I could tolerate. It’s a long frustrating journey.
It took me 2 years to build up the inertia to actually call a doctor.
I get the metaphor this is making, but I can’t help but view this as everyone being passive aggressive because the character refuses to actually see a doctor about their hand lol.
Try dialing a phone with your hand like that
It’s like trying to crucify yourself. No matter how hard you try, you can’t hammer in the last nail.
The other one was fine.
Finding a doctor, making an appointment, keeping that appointment, trying who knows how many medications until you find one that helps, etc. is not the easiest thing in the world when you have trouble just getting out of bed in the morning.
Besides, the hand itself will get in the way of seeing a doctor. How are you gonna fill out paperwork? If you’re depressed, do you trust the doctor?
What about affording any of that? OR a home… or getting time off work for the 100th time this year.
Life is often unkind to those who need a bit of kindness the most.
Yea, I was just thinking this morning how fucked up it is that there’s nothing you can do if you’re in this situation to catch up. The world won’t stop moving while you try to figure your shit out and you’re just fucked if you fall behind while trying to deal with it.
Should be a broken foot and everyone tells him to just walk to the doctor
If you don’t even go to a doctor because of that hand then I understand why everyone is kinda fed up
this, big time. The amount of times where I had migraine with the vision impairment on the day of an appointment, unable to drive and farther away than I could safely get to on my own by any means if I could manage to fumble through any to begin with, and nobody able to bring me.
then just remembering which meds go to my elderly birds, elderly grandparents, and which go to me
Like I said, I fully get the metaphor and the point being made. It’s just a funny interpretation.
But you still have to take steps to do it or your hand will never get better. Granted it’s easier if people give you support but depending on where you are at in life that can’t necessarily be something you can count on. So you have to break it down into a manageable step and attack it at that point. If you’re having trouble getting out bed, focus on just getting out of bed. Or don’t, just call a doctor from bed and do telemedicine there if possible. Whatever works.
It sounds callous to someone that’s deep in it but the reality of the situation is that excuses won’t alleviate your situation. You have to find what you can do, if you can’t do something then it is what it is but you also have to accept that the world does not exist without consequence and you will probably have to accept the consequences of that action (people being frustrated with you for flaking, trouble at work, etc). Pursue accommodations when possible to alleviate the burden but also recognize that depression is a mix of neurochemical and behavioral components. You have a degree of control over severity of the behavioral part and it is about the choices you make with what how you spend your time
All of those points are things that depression actively disrupts. It’s akin to asking an American, living hand to mouth, to just pay out of pocket. It’s not a case of not going on an extra holiday. It’s a case of not making rent payments to do it.
Depression can leave you without enough mental resources to even maintain basic functionality. An upfront cost, for a payout potential years down the line, is simply more than many can afford.
The worst part is that you are correct. However, it’s the same correctness as telling someone about to lose their house to “just make more money”. Technically correct, but useless and callous in practice.
It’s unbelievably frustrating how much of this narrative is pervasive here. I’m all over these comment replies pushing back against it and here is why: because it is defeatist bullshit. Someone with depression, who is already struggling, reads your comment and now has reason to go “oh well yeah, that’s right, it is hard and it is difficult and I might as well not bother”
Fuck that. Your metaphor is bullshit. The difference is a person living in extreme poverty can’t generally make huge differences with saving $5 a week. But someone with depression can make significant progress with small behavioral changes to build momentum in the direction they want to move towards. This is not conjecture, this is evidence based both via CBT and behavior activation theory.
Frankly I would argue pushing the narrative of “well it’s really hard so you might as well just not try” is far more damaging than what the comic outlines. The behavior in the comic is rude and disenfranchising but the behavior in some of these comments is enabling and actively works against someone potentially seeking treatment
As stated in one of my other replies what do you propose as an alternative? Let people with mental illness languish and send them good vibes? Do you also send thoughts and prayers after mass shootings?
What we need is clean, efficient treatment paths for acute depression. Barriers to treatment are the worst thing possible.
We need to work on attacking root causes, not just throw some drugs at the person and call it a day.
We need to help teach depressed people HOW to start pulling themselves out, not just to try harder.
Once the patient is stable, we need to NOT just wash our hands of them, treatment wise. This is the time that spending mental effort will lead to far bigger gains.
It’s the difference between telling someone with broken legs to “walk it off” vs emergency treatment, casts for 6+ weeks, and then physiotherapy where “walk it off” becomes walk on it to rebuild your strength.
The “just try harder” mentality got me into the mess Ive been in. It burnt me out, and it took me decades to even realise how bad I actually was, and years more to even start getting the help I actually needed. Even now, I have to fight for it. 1 slip up, and I’m set back months or years in the process. It’s like putting the hospital A&E department on the 5th floor, with no lifts, and expecting people to walk up if they really want treatment.
The point is you shouldn’t be telling the depressed person how to deal with their illness.
The author of this comic is trying to say that the problem is not the depressed person, the problem is everyone else telling him how to treat his illness.
You’ve got some good advice but you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the point this artist is trying to make.
I wasn’t replying to the comic, I was replying to that person.
Regardless of that the problem is not binary issue. A problem is the people demoralizing the individual, sure, but this is a contributing factor to the individuals inaction. The individuals inaction is a problem as well and for said individual this is the worse of the 2 problems, as it is the main one they can act on. You can complain about other people being tone deaf and that is valid, those people are rude, but it’s not moving you forward
self medicate! mushrooms and puppies!
I’m unclear on which one I’m supposed to eat, but I think I’m just going to go for it!
You’ll figure it out don’t limit yourself
I fed the former to the latter and have a whole situation here right now
Visually misread the middle panel guy as a doctor and not some douche in a white jacket at first which almost felt like a different type of joke.
The metaphor would work a lot better if one of the people he’s talking to was a doctor that ignored the problem with his hand.
And ADHD just means “you’re too lazy, and just need to focus.”
Things that make me want to hurt people.
It really sucks being a parent with ADHD having a kid with ADHD understanding the struggles while also having to say “You need to figure out what will work for you to focus on this stuff. Also, just try some of these suggestions to see if they work instead of refusing to try at all.”
Like I understand the struggle and still end up sounding like that just because figuring out something to improve the situation is necessary although it isn’t quite the same thing as ‘try harder’. Just keep trying until you figure out something that improves the situation.
For me, it’s all about someone trying to help me, together.
I’m lucky that a few of my coworkers understand the feeling that working on a thing together (even if it’s separate tasks) can achieve the larger goal. It’s much better than going alone, or with someone who tries to play director/boss.
ADHD sucks. It’s a pain in the ass to get my meds, the meds help, but I still have good days and bad days. I don’t think it’s nearly as debilitating as a crushed hand, I don’t even put it on the same level as depression. That said everyone has a different toolbox for their issues, and some people are better equipped than others.
I’ve got a lovely cocktail of ADHD, C-PTSD, Depression, and Anxiety. And people are upset when it takes me an hour to get out of bed.
I have adhd, anxiety, and depression. My spouse has anxiety, cpsd, and depression. We really enjoyed remote work before we were called back to the office.
If it takes you an hour to get out of bed, so be it. I like to go to bed early (I’m old) that way it feels like I’ve slept in every day.
Feel this one in my bones.
Well at least you have bones amiright?
My only regret is that I have… boneitis.
That’s a funny name for a horrible disease.
Had to look that one up, nice one.
Ah, an artist who graduated from the Bruce Timm and John K school of horny Archie fanart.
(I actually love it)
You could say I’m “drawn” towards some fine curves
I thought we were gonna be so serious and politically correct. I’m glad not all of us were.
The worst part is when people call somebody lazy or make other assumptions about them cause of their lack of wealth or expensive things or tidy hair. Some people never grow out of that schoolyard shit.
I have ADHD and my SO desperately needs to see this.
With friends like these, you don’t need enemies
