Just because we didn’t quite fill enough buckets with arguing about the Budapest memorandum, the first time around

  • moreeni@lemm.ee
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    9 days ago

    Why is the peace deal put in quotes? Last time I checked when a war ends peace comes. Even if there’s a price to pay.

    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOP
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      9 days ago
      1. Because giving one party everything they’re asking for at gunpoint isn’t really a “deal,” that’s just them winning.
      2. Because part of the concern is that there’s no particular guarantee, if we have a peace deal, that the peace will continue after the deal. Both iterations of Russia’s original invasion were accompanied by strident denials that they were invading, because that was crazy Western propaganda, and nobody’s going to invade Ukraine. A person who’s willing lie to you about the present and past, is even more likely to lie to you about the future.

      Edit: Actually, even more telling: One of Russia’s key demands, apparently, is that it is ABSOLUTELY OFF THE TABLE that Ukraine get security guarantees from anyone, now or ever in the future. In the mode of abusers everywhere, the one thing that is an absolute atrocity which will cause them to go ballistic is if they are threatened with consequences if they don’t adhere to the terms of the deal. The deal they are swearing they will, of course, how could you even think otherwise, adhere to.

    • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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      8 days ago

      Coincidentally, this is the thought process of a rapist as well.

      “Stop resisting, it will end quicker”

      • moreeni@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        Dude, wtf?! That is a shitty analogy. Country’s territories can be brought back in the future. Tens of thousands dead— can not. This economy cannot sustain the pressure of war and a demographic pit and it could use even a temporary truce. Agitating to keep grinding everything down in the hope that some day Russia might fall (it haven’t for 3 years already and doesn’t seem to be on the verge of that anywhere soon) is the analogy to what a rapist does to a human.

        • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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          8 days ago

          If you think a country is just it’s territory, you don’t know what the word ‘country’ means.

          ‘Just let it happen’ mentality, for real.

          • moreeni@lemm.ee
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            8 days ago

            Jesus, westerners are something else. What else would be lost from a truce other than territory temporarily?

            • Bronzebeard@lemm.ee
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              8 days ago

              This is the 3rd(?) time Russia has broken a treaty and stolen territory from Ukraine “temporarily” since that treat was signed.

            • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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              8 days ago

              “Westerners” - I live by the border to russia. I’ve lived in the Soviet Union. I’d put my life do make sure my children don’t have to live “temporarily” in russia.

              By your childish, naive logic, every ovuntry that fought to leave Soviet Union should’ve remained, because it costed lives.

              By your simplistic view, anyone who fought Nazi Germany, should’ve surrendered for “temporary” territory loss.

              You are either a useful idiot for russia’s terrorism, or a child.

              All those lives you care about can be saved by russians going back to home. For some reason, I don’t see you trying to convince people that’s the best course of action.