Just because we didn’t quite fill enough buckets with arguing about the Budapest memorandum, the first time around
Why the fuck is a russian asset negotiating a peace deal supposedly for Ukraine in the first place?
The EU is the only entity that has the ability to deliver any justice in this matter. The US exited the world stage the day they elected a criminal rapist and rissian puppet as our leader.
Why the fuck is a russian asset negotiating a peace deal supposedly for Ukraine in the first place?
Because they paid for a ton of propaganda and won the disinformation war.
Well, actually the time they pulled out of Iraq.
There’s an old saying in Tennessee, I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says, fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me, you can’t get fooled again.
GW Bush
IMO, The EU should straight up ally with Ukraine with a path to membership. I think that allowing Russia to be as it is, would be a huge mistake. In a conflict with America, that would likely mean having a Russian knife to one’s back. Breaking the Russia we know, developing Ukraine, and maybe even help some form of Neorussia democracy with a Marshall Plan, would all contribute to getting ready for a fight with America.
Unfortunately Putin’s puppets in the EU are gaining power.
The AfD yes, but Orbán is on his way out, and last I heard Fico wasn’t doing too well either.
I don’t think that that would work out. Do some light, but firm, appeasement, strike a deal that respects Russian sovereignty and security interests, with both partners (the EU and Russia) making clear that the current borders and alliance affiliations are stable and can continue to exist, that Ukraine will not house NATO or other troops, and then fortify Europe as an actual global player by strengthening the competitiveness of our industries and building a powerful military. Over the next few years, phase out the American presence in Europe, e.g., at Ramstein Air Base, and do some counter-bullying of the U.S, e.g., ICJ convictions of Americans involved in the illegal invasion of Iraq. We need to get to the point where the U.S. is afraid of attacking territories like Greenland and mainland Europe in particular, in the best case with them uncertain whether they could even win an all-out war. Reduce dependency on American goods, regulate and punish American companies, and make sure that the world’s freedom grows.
US: “give up your weapons, we will protect you.”
US: “omg why do you keep expecting us to protect you.”
I hope when Trump, Musk, and the rest of them go it is an incredibly long, drawn out, and painful process.
The Budapest memorandum! Fun stuff. Instead of all of us arguing, I recommend for people to read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum#Content
I can really see why it is that some people have a hard-on for trying to destroy Wikipedia. A lot of the misery that’s been washing over the world for the last 10 years or so is because they’ve developed really incredibly powerful tools for unmooring people’s perceptions of reality from what the actual reality is, and Wikipedia is starting to stick out as a trusted source of truth, as the others fall and crumble one by one.
Yeah to hell with the Orange Idiot. His entire rationale behind this so-called deal is that Putin knows how to manipulate him, so he thinks Putin is his friend. He’s so goddamn stupid and thinks he’s such a master deal maker; he wouldn’t know a good deal if it was inked with his fucking bronzer.
He’s right. USA demanding payment is BS, after all Ukraine got rid of nuclear weapons with assurence of security. USA was a part of that assurence. Same goes for all European countries that backed that deal. You signed it, now stand by it no matter what.
Also, it just makes financial sense to help the Ukrainians defend their country. Hear me out.
The US hasn’t had a peer or near peer war in a long time. This gives a huge amount of data to better use the pentagons funding.
They can allocate more money to drones and anti drone systems, test out new equipment and see if it’s worth continuing to invest in and see how these systems truly stack up against their counterparts and learn from them.
That said, US military funding is fucked and we spend way too much on it. Even if we had a smaller budget, it still makes sense.
I’m SHOCKED! Wait no… oh. I expected exactly this.
From an article I read about this:
“We must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective,” [US Defense Secretary] Hegseth said, referring to the year Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine. “Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.”
Why is that an “illusionary goal”? That should be the bare minimum goal. I’d say that plus some sort of restitution and Putin being jailed would be the ideal outcome, but getting their territory back should be the main non-negotiable.
Its illusionary because Trump has to pay Putin back and Ukraine was promised for meddling in our elections while Musk suppressed the vote.
Not only give Russia everything they want, but also give the rest to the USA. It’s like the partition of Poland.
I think it’s time for UK, France, Poland and Germany to get into the war in Ukraine and push Russia back to their border and set up nuclear weapons in Ukraine under their control.
Europe would have gained some of the most experienced army in an alliance and cross-train like crazy. They would have some capacity to hold their own against Russia in absence of US Military.
If Russia want a nuclear war, then so be it. There’s nothing to discuss there, it just means they were planning on using it from the start. Better to die on your feet than on your knees.
Buddy, that’s just WWIII. And the problem, with that is, the people that are losing just might go ‘‘well… might as well…’’ and irradiate the planet to sterile.
This is insane. You have no idea what you are taking about.
Look up Nuclear Sharing Program. That idea have been around for a very long time. Try harder, Russian bot.
Says the account of seven days, huh… Three letter agencies sure do glow bright
Why is the peace deal put in quotes? Last time I checked when a war ends peace comes. Even if there’s a price to pay.
- Because giving one party everything they’re asking for at gunpoint isn’t really a “deal,” that’s just them winning.
- Because part of the concern is that there’s no particular guarantee, if we have a peace deal, that the peace will continue after the deal. Both iterations of Russia’s original invasion were accompanied by strident denials that they were invading, because that was crazy Western propaganda, and nobody’s going to invade Ukraine. A person who’s willing lie to you about the present and past, is even more likely to lie to you about the future.
Edit: Actually, even more telling: One of Russia’s key demands, apparently, is that it is ABSOLUTELY OFF THE TABLE that Ukraine get security guarantees from anyone, now or ever in the future. In the mode of abusers everywhere, the one thing that is an absolute atrocity which will cause them to go ballistic is if they are threatened with consequences if they don’t adhere to the terms of the deal. The deal they are swearing they will, of course, how could you even think otherwise, adhere to.
Losing a war is a peace deal, apparently.
Coincidentally, this is the thought process of a rapist as well.
“Stop resisting, it will end quicker”
Dude, wtf?! That is a shitty analogy. Country’s territories can be brought back in the future. Tens of thousands dead— can not. This economy cannot sustain the pressure of war and a demographic pit and it could use even a temporary truce. Agitating to keep grinding everything down in the hope that some day Russia might fall (it haven’t for 3 years already and doesn’t seem to be on the verge of that anywhere soon) is the analogy to what a rapist does to a human.
If you think a country is just it’s territory, you don’t know what the word ‘country’ means.
‘Just let it happen’ mentality, for real.
Jesus, westerners are something else. What else would be lost from a truce other than territory temporarily?
This is the 3rd(?) time Russia has broken a treaty and stolen territory from Ukraine “temporarily” since that treat was signed.
“Westerners” - I live by the border to russia. I’ve lived in the Soviet Union. I’d put my life do make sure my children don’t have to live “temporarily” in russia.
By your childish, naive logic, every ovuntry that fought to leave Soviet Union should’ve remained, because it costed lives.
By your simplistic view, anyone who fought Nazi Germany, should’ve surrendered for “temporary” territory loss.
You are either a useful idiot for russia’s terrorism, or a child.
All those lives you care about can be saved by russians going back to home. For some reason, I don’t see you trying to convince people that’s the best course of action.
Yes, that’s the deal ATM. It sucks, but that’s the deal. Either that or Europe pulls their collective head out their ass and fights back against a vile threat that’s literally on their doorstep, which ain’t happening. Because those dumb sons-of-bitches should have preparing since 2014 when Russia first pulled this shit. Should have been on guard against those evil fuckers since 1945.
Because Europe: GUNS BAD! We can diplomacy with Russians! Can’t we give peace a chance?
No, not against Russians you cant. You END their ability to fight, permanently, or we’ll do this every few decades.
And why is Zelensky talking draft? Why isn’t every able-bodied man already fighting?
Sorry Ukraine, you’re my heroes, and I mean that. I flag your flag and not my own. But America ain’t a trustworthy ally any longer. Democracy has failed here, and we voted for it.
