• FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.worldEnglish
      13·
      4 hours ago

      Thanks for this. We need a way of flagging satire or misinformation more clearly. I don’t think it’s enough to have it buried in the comment sections.

    • smac@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      4·
      3 hours ago

      It doesn’t matter. The debt was repaid in 1795 by James Swan, a banker who assumed the debt from the U.S.

    • Madison420@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      4 hours ago

      If you transfer debts and loans they’re still valid, it’s what the ussr Russia exchange did.

  • mkwt@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1183·
    16 hours ago

    Yeah, uhuh. I think if you look at the papers, that debt was owed to a king whose head ended up in a basket. 🧺. That was, hmm, quite a few French republics ago.

    Meanwhile, why don’t we discuss that little Normandy caper that one time

    • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
      451·
      13 hours ago

      This is a joke about the US’s recent demands for Ukraine to ‘pay back’ the aid given to defend its independence against Russian imperialism and genocide.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
        27·
        9 hours ago

        More specifically, Lilly estimated that U.S. servicemen committed around 3,500 rapes in France between June 1944 and the end of the war.[10]

        Rape per capita in 2022 France: ~116 per 100,000 men

        Rape per capita in 2022 England and Wales: ~234 per 100,000 men

        Number of American troops in France during WW2: ~2,300,000

        Estimated American rape per capita in WW2 France: ~152 per 100,000 American soldiers

        By those numbers, it would be safer to be a French woman with an American soldier in WW2, than to be a woman with an English man today.

            • notsoshaihulud@lemmy.worldEnglish
              4·
              4 hours ago

              You appear to bend the numbers every step of the way to support a conclusion you simply can’t draw. Here’s the laundry list of issues:

              1. The reported numbers of today and the estimated numbers from 1944 are uncomparable I find it crazy to use a multiplier within the same scale to 1944 rapes as to 2022 rape.

              A) Reporting patterns changed over the years: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_France #Statistics)]

              B) Definitions had changed over the years such as inclusion of marital rape which : [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_France#Marital_rape] [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo-Lovett/publication/238713283_Home_Office_Research_Study_293_A_gap_or_a_chasm_Attrition_in_reported_rape_cases/links/00b7d52a09b4935e0e000000/Home-Office-Research-Study-293-A-gap-or-a-chasm-Attrition-in-reported-rape-cases.pdf]

              C) Increases happened in inclusion of female perpetrators into the convictions (it’s about 4% in France but it’s still a major shift from 0%) [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1085508/people-indicted-sexual-violence-france-gender-age/] and male victims in the estimates [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8713172/]

              D) Age of consent was redefined over the years, with now 3rd of 2022 rapes were committed against underaged girls (younger than 15) in France.

              2. You can’t draw conclusions on population distribution-dependent statistics, by assuming a 50-50% distribution but a 100% perpetration rate by one sex. In fact natives males are quartered diffusely with females, whereas solders are quartered with males predominantly and thus the distribution is uneven. Since the majority of present-day rapes happen between current or past intimate partners (60%), the patterns are very much different. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1158136009000486?casa_token=egmg2OrX84oAAAAA%3Aan10FT7p5uFwGrxUWjhU1IH3Awc6oOR8tyrEZlkuqE88WHE7R-pcvEmCyTYY9EYJap6yFJA3

              The fair way to compare these stats is to that of German and Russian forces from the same time, which is totally fair game. But bending numbers to claim that women were safer with GI Joes in 1944 than in present days is just fucking bullshit.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
                22·
                4 hours ago

                You appear to bend the numbers every step of the way to support a conclusion you simply can’t draw. Here’s the laundry list of issues:

                Then I suppose you retract the accusation that my numbers were wrong, and only maintain that my conclusion was wrong?

                1. The reported numbers of today and the estimated numbers from 1944 are uncomparable I find it crazy to use a multiplier within the same scale to 1944 rapes as to 2022 rape.

                We aren’t using the same multiplier with 1944 rapes and 2022 rapes. The estimates of the UN and the estimates of J. Robert Lilly are not done using the same multiplier.

                and male victims in the estimates

                The estimate of total rapes extrapolated from number of reported rapes includes the reported rapes of men by men in WW2.

                D) Age of consent was redefined over the years, with now 3rd of 2022 rapes were committed against underaged girls (younger than 15) in France.

                The age of consent in France was 13 in 1940, and 15 in 1945, where it has been ever since.

                1. You can’t draw conclusions on population distribution-dependent statistics, by assuming a 50-50% distribution but a 100% perpetration rate by one sex.

                By your own number cited just above, it would be a 96% perpetration rate by one sex. So, uh, don’t really know what you’re trying to prove here.

                In fact natives males are quartered diffusely with females, whereas solders are quartered with males predominantly and thus the distribution is uneven. Since the majority of present-day rapes happen between current or past intimate partners (60%), the patterns are very much different.

                Okay?

                The fair way to compare these stats is to that of German and Russian forces from the same time, which is totally fair game. But bending numbers to claim that women were safer with GI Joes in 1944 than in present days is just fucking bullshit.

                My point was to illustrate that the article was not saying what was implied. The rape rate of American soldiers in WW2 France was not significantly over the rape rate of the civilian population by the numbers the article itself cited. As far as “Let’s talk about American crimes” go, “The American soldiers were as bad as civilians, statistically speaking” is not very compelling.

                As mentioned, elsewhere, the numbers of American rapes in Germany were much worse. But France? Terrible example.

                • notsoshaihulud@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  2·
                  3 hours ago

                  Then I suppose you retract the accusation that my numbers were wrong, and only maintain that my conclusion was wrong?

                  I updated my comment.

                  We aren’t using the same multiplier with 1944 rapes and 2022 rapes. The estimates of the UN and the estimates of J. Robert Lilly are not done using the same multiplier.

                  You’re right. My source claims to have used “police recorded” incidents only. Again reporting patterns, definitions, and perceptions are extremely different now, especially post meetoo, than in 1944. I.e., you’re using a multiplier on a heavily underreported number (1944) to compare to a heavily overreported number (based on change in criteria) from 2022.

                  The age of consent in France was 13 in 1940, and 15 in 1945, where it has been ever since.

                  Good on you for looking this up. Your search history must look interesting. Regardless, unless they changed the age of consent and its enforcement before May 1945, this actually supports my point.

                  Okay? [on population distribution]

                  The background on this is, the first time I realized Elon Musk is either very dumb or a nazi (or both) was when he boosted a post on interracial violence that did not adjust for population distribution. It’s one of those ways to make outlandish statements that are “technically correct”. It’s like saying that based on their lower obesity rates, stone age people were healthier than modern humans.

                  As mentioned, elsewhere, the numbers of American rapes in Germany were much worse. But France? Terrible example.

                  That’s a point I consider much more acceptable. Yet this ruined an otherwise pretty funny original post.

        • wisely@feddit.orgEnglish
          3·
          6 hours ago

          I wonder if people are more likely to report it today than they were 80 years ago. Or if more report in England vs France? I honestly don’t know much about that aspect of their cultures.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
            1·
            6 hours ago

            I wonder if people are more likely to report it today than they were 80 years ago.

            Almost certainly, but the estimate of rapes in WW2 was, itself, done by assuming that only 5% of rapes were reported.

            More pertinently, rapists use time, social connections, and lack of oversight to commit their crimes. All of those factors would’ve been in short supply for US soldiers in France, for various reasons.

            The conduct of US soldiers in Germany, on the other hand, was considerably worse.

          • notsoshaihulud@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            6 hours ago

            OP overestimates rape incidence in present day by over 5 fold. I can guarantee that they report it at a much higher rate today as there are actual procedures on how to handle it. it reads like rationalizing rape committed by soldiers.

            • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
              4·
              6 hours ago

              OP overestimates rape incidence in present day by over 5 fold.

              Fuck’s sake, can you not read the sources you yourself provide?

              I can guarantee that they report it at a much higher rate today as there are actual procedures on how to handle it.

              Yes, it is generally considered that ~25%-33% of rapes are reported in the modern day, whereas the researcher on WW2 whose numbers are quoted assumed, probably not unfairly, that only ~5% of rapes were reported - which is how the estimate of 3,500 rapes was reached.

              it reads like rationalizing rape committed by soldiers.

              … what.

    • neatchee@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      12 hours ago

      You wasted a perfectly good opportunity for a Hamilton reference. I was very sad when it didn’t arrive