My husband and I own a house, but I’d give it up in a second for living in an apartment, if it meant housing for all
I’d wait in longer lines for healthcare, if it meant healthcare for all
I’d eat foods I don’t much care for, if it meant food for all
I’d wait at a bus depot or train station, if it meant equitable transportation and saving the planet
It’s hard for me to fathom that there are people who wouldn’t do the same, who are willing to let others suffer for the tiniest bit of potential luxury
And before someone comes in with “lOoK wHaT a GoOd PeRsOn YoU aRe,” I’m really not. It doesn’t take a good person to not wish suffering on others.
the irony is that we wouldn’t need to sacrifice much (if at all) for those benefits – in other words, you could be completely selfish and still have a better life
- US is sitting at 28 vacant homes per homeless person (city of Helsinki saved the country of Finland €15000 per person per year just by buying them a house)
- healthcare for all (and better quality) would cost us about 2/3 what we’re paying now
- we produce (and have) plenty of food for everyone but companies would rather throw it away if they can’t make a profit (John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath)
- better public transit means more convenience for everyone with the added benefits of better air quality, nicer neighborhoods, less wear-and-tear on infrastructure, cheaper commuting – [email protected]
but companies would rather throw it away if they can’t make a profit
Not just companies, I feel obliged to point out. The rot goes much deeper - independent farmers did the same at the time. The sickness is in society itself.
Nowadays we just pay farmers not to farm.
Just pointing out that independent farmers throw out food that is unprofitable to sell. It’s not like they’re greedy or something. When there’s a lot of food transportation costs mean you can lose money sending your food to market.
In that case no people are starving because food prices are very low. The problem in the Great Depression was that the conservative government didn’t want to intervene in the market and buy up the cheap food, so people did starve. This is part of the reason why conservatives lost power for twenty years.
On the Finnish homelesness part: you’re spouting misinfo, knowingly or unknowingly. Our system doesnt buy houses or apartments to anyone.
Every homeless person though IS offered a flat in a socially subsidized, very cheap price as part of a social program and/or place in a substance abuse coliving program-type of thing (not sure on the spesifics of those).
Its weird how there’s so much misinformation about Finland in Lemmy these days, like were some magical egelitarian happy-land. No, we just pay our taxes and have built up a social security net, though thats actively being dismantled by our right wing government these days.
Source of all of this: I am a finn.
🇨🇦: “first time?”
US is sitting at 28 vacant homes per homeless person
This pisses me off so much. There should be an extra tax for unfilled housing.
Yes, everyone having a better quality of life would elevate everyone who isn’t wealthy enough to isolate into a fenced off estate and has servants to do all their domestic tasks.
This means you’re a good person but these trade-offs are false dichotomies. None of it is necessary to provide these services to all. We already have incredibly long wait times for healthcare in our ruthlessly for-profit system. The only thing that keeps those services from everyone is the greed of the extremely wealthy and the stupidity of those who fall for their lies.
I’m well aware, but I’m saying even if it were true that we had to, it would be well worth it.
And I think most people would too. Most of us want to be part of something positive. We went to feel like we’re actually helping, having an impact.
Don’t forget that doing the bare minimum of simply wearing a mask when out and about during a global pandemic was too much for the majority of people to handle.
It wasn’t the majority
Minority of people.
I’d wait in longer lines for healthcare, if it meant healthcare for all
I don’t blame you for it, but this is such a bullshit talking point, at least when it comes to U.S. for-profit healthcare. I had to wait over 6 months to see a neurologist after my old one moved to another city. I had to wait two months to get my gallbladder removed just to find out if it would solve a medical problem it didn’t solve. I have to go to the Mayo clinic now. I made an appointment in December. I can get in at the end of March.
On top of that, some evaluations that would have helped my daughter a lot earlier took a year and a half from when we scheduled them and we had to drive to another city an hour and a half away by car.
That’s pretty much on par with what I hear from people who live in Canada, if not worse.
but this is such a bullshit talking point
Absolutely agree! As I said to a couple others, view my comment as more of a thought experiment, an “even if” type thing (which I should have probably prefaced it with). Even if the talking points were real, it would still be bullshit.
None of the things on my list necessitate sacrificing the other, except for maybe the use of public transportation.
I’m really sorry for what you went through. I went through something similar, and on top of everything else we’re adding fuel to the fire by putting ourselves at the mercy of massive private insurance companies.
You’re preaching to the choir!
I’m sorry you have gone through the same thing! I wish I was an outlier case, but I’m a common story and so are you. I wish I had the means to emigrate to Canada or Europe. Anywhere with universal healthcare. We also owe thousands in medical debt and we’re going to owe thousands more this year! I’m guessing it’s the same for you.
Oh yeah, I’ve dreamed about the same!
So I had $50,000 debt from my misdiagnosed appendicitis that turned gangrenous, which I could never pay. Fortunately, after a year of getting collections called on me and losing everything I had ever saved, a charity paid all but several thousand on my behalf.
Then before I could pay off those thousands, I was involunantarily put in the psych ward and dumped out a couple days later with no ride home: $8000 (still paying, still accruing interest)
Then my celiac/severe lactose intolerance diagnoses cost several thousand, I don’t even know, I stopped keeping track
And through all this, the only times I didn’t have to wait months were when my appendix had turned gangrenous and was about to kill me, and when the cops put me in custody.
I’ve had a toothache for a couple years, but I haven’t gone into the dentist because … that’s more thousands, for sure. I’m thinking about taking out dental insurance, but is it worth it? I’ve had it in the past, and I still paid thousands out of pocket.
I can’t even express what I’d give to have access to just basic healthcare.
Oh, and not that this should matter, but I’ve always done everything “right.” I put what I could in savings (wasn’t enough), I’ve worked 40+ hours a week, I’ve tried to always have insurance (except the year that I got appendicitis because my employer opted not to rehire me when they learned that I was gay).
We probably can’t migrate to Canada, probably not Norway (even though I have family there), but we’ve talked about Mexico where he’s from, where even though it’s not really socialized, at least it’s not so far out of reach for us.
Sorry, didn’t mean to make this all about me. I feel like the people who oppose universal healthcare are people who are rich enough to at least never have to go through this sort of thing and can deceive themselves into thinking what we have now is working.
I’m really sorry you had to go through all of that. I’m not going to list all of my current health issues, but the dentist one I can certainly sympathize with because I have a nerve disorder in my face and that means if I go to a dentist, I have to be put under completely or I will probably start screaming. I can’t afford that, so I have to live with what I know for sure is a cavity.
I’m pretty sure mine is a cavity, too. I just try to chew on the other side of my mouth and keep it as clean as I can.
Weirdly, mine hurt a lot for a long time and now it only hurts a little. It’s not a dead tooth or anything so I’m not sure what’s going on.
In Canada, certain yackadoodles are trying to fight tooth and nail to privatize healthcare. I hope Europe’s doing at least a bit better on that front.
It’s stupidly short-sighted. Many of the people who are voting for privatizing healthcare will almost definitely need public healthcare within the next decade or so. Pension plans only pay so much. Retirement savings only last so long, and people are living longer. It’s not like the people who can’t afford a house or even post secondary schooling will be able to cover those extra costs for their parents/grandparents. It’s all fun and games until you see a bill with more than four zeros, and realize that you only have the three zeros in your account to last you for the rest of your life.
Of course, they’ll probably just blame the younger people for it. I don’t get it, I really don’t. We could be making progress, but that would make sense, and it doest seem like you’re allowed to do that anymore.
Best of luck, man. I hope everything works out for you sooner than later.
Agreed. I busted my ankle a few years ago. Tried to get a Dr. To look at it. Closest app. Was 6 months out. So it was either wait 6 months, or go to the ER and pay 5k for an X-ray. I waited, and now the dang thing is perpetually stiff and pops really badly sometimes.
I blew two tendons in my arm, walked in a clinic two days later when it wasn’t presenting like a sprain got x-rays that day and was off work for 6 months on a regime of physio and a return to work rehabilitation gym /physio and massage therapy program that ran monitored by specialists 5 days a week… And never paid a cent.
So the argument that socialized healthcare will cause massive delays doesn’t mesh with my personal experience living in such a system.
Mind you I live in a large Canadian city and the resources and scheduling would likely be much worse if I were in a small town but that’s the thing. What your population density is has more to do with wait times because staffing is a finite resources no matter who foots the bill.
I needed a couple of scans at one point and my doctor actually told me to get them at the ER or I would have to wait months! I couldn’t wait months. I am not going to be looking good by the end of March as it is. The scans didn’t show anything, but that’s beside the point. I had to get them to find out what wasn’t wrong. So I went to the ER. What else could I do?
Woah woah woah. That’s coMmuNiSM
Komrad, Do you think we can trick them by calling it Republic+?
Oh damn, that’s an idea. Make it a “monthly subscription” instead of a tax and I bet lots of people would go for it. “For $x, you get to watch all these shows and if you subscribe now, we’ll throw in medical care FREE!”
The lines are still long with private insurance, you’re not getting in for specialty procedures very quickly no matter what payment method you use. I say this as someone who does specialty neurodiagnostic procedures in the US. We don’t care if you can pay or you have this insurance or that, there’s a line everywhere and unless you’re coming in through the ED, you have to wait in it.
Keep in mind, too, that in a single-payer system, preventative care is more heavily emphasized. This shifts the load bearing of the system on the front-end (PCPs, NPs) and in theory problems are identified before they snowball into greater issues that require specialties.
Thank you. This is also an important point.
My comment was more of a thought experiment, since none of the things I listed actually require sacrificing the other.
I’m not trying to start an argument or take away from your point, just trying to preempt the inevitable conservative arguments against universal healthcare.
Yeah, I fully understand, and I appreciate that. It’s always an important point to make!
I wouldn’t do those things, but we shouldn’t have to. We don’t have to give up quality medical care for everyone to have it. Or give up houses for everyone to have a place to live. The resources for these things are held by the ultra wealthy, not by the middle class.
You’re right about the healthcare thing, because we can just hire more medical professionals and give them better working conditions (including but not limited to pay).
Housing is different. Single family houses take up a lot of space. Space that necessarily reduces space available for other homes. You need to increase average housing density in order to be able to house everyone at a price that is affordable within a reasonable distance of opportunities for work and social activities.
Single family houses worked just great when we didn’t have 8 billion people. Density is a function of population too
Yes. And today they don’t work great. I’m living in today, and hope to plan to live in the future. I don’t plan to spend any more time living in the past, so I don’t advocate policies that might have worked in the past if they don’t also work in the future.
That said, the large single-family homes that dominate America and my own home country of Australia actually didn’t work “just great”. They created an over-reliance on the automobile, and by extension the fossil fuel industry. They ramped up rates of health problems relating to the fact that people get less exercise when they can’t walk or ride a bike to do basic errands. They isolated people from their sense of belonging to a community, and they stunted the growth in independence of children who now require to be driven by parents everywhere, rather than getting on their bikes and riding. The lawns that are synonymous with houses are also terrible ecologically.
So yes, if you look narrowly at it from a housing affordability standpoint, in the past, single family homes worked “just great”. But that’s not true today, and it was never true if you look at it from the broader societal impact.
The problem is the ones that need to care the most are the ones that care the least. The richest people in the world are in pissing contests about big ass clocks and space ships.
Do I think these are intellectually cool? Yes. Do I think it’s more important than feeding every kid and giving them shelter and education? No.
Well, my comment was just a thought experiment since we don’t actually need to trade any of these things for the other, and fortunately we can also feed every kid and give them education too (I’ve already addressed shelter).
Neoliberals be like: We have to decide. No, we don’t.
The rich need to decide.
The only thing I won’t settle for is wage slavery. No one should be held hostage to a job that has stolen their sense of wonder.
I’m so lucky to have a job where I can help people and feel good, at a non-profit that isn’t causing harm.
I know not everyone can have this, but we can make it so.
I’m in the same position, love my job helping people. But a lot of non-profit work doesn’t pay well. I haven’t been able to afford to go to the dentist in 20 years.
It’s been more than a decade for me, for sure. For the dentist.
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It … was just a thought experiment of sorts, but thanks for outing yourself and your real priorities
I hope you feel better
Lol ok. Would love for someone to show up at your house tomorrow and actually demand you move and see how you react. Easy to be all talk when you aren’t actually faced with the decision.
Can you explain what this has to do with my comment?
If it were necessary to provide housing for all, then out I’d go!
Believe me, we’re the first people to offer our home to neighbors who get evicted or otherwise in need, but we shouldn’t have to because housing is a basic human right.
And yes, I’d love not to have to pay the filthy bank! Bring it on!
I would love it if humanity allowed us to all live equally. If there wasn’t an overwhelming number of people that want to just take advantage of others who are willing to wait a little longer in line or give up luxuries for cheaper alternatives, it would be perfect.
Life, as beautiful as it can be, is also tainted by harsh realities. By all means, be charitable and kind when you can and help others to build a solid community. However, always be aware that there are also people that survive by draining the resources of others. As far as raw nature is concerned, both strategies are valid if it improves survival rates.
I can’t offer any magic solutions or even be a “perfect” person myself. Speaking from an animalistic point of view, my own survival depends on thinking about myself first and then the survival of my DNA second.
Thinking about the brutal realities of life is something I do often and balancing my needs with the needs of others is tough! If I die, or my resources are drained, I can’t support anyone else.
This ain’t it, chief. The “bad” people you describe are few and far between and not doing any tangible amount of harm.
You know who’s really draining resources? The rich, landlords, CEOs. Hell, even suburbanites who live with 3-stall garages and Dodge Rams are draining more resources than the proverbial “welfare queens.”
That you see these people as what stands between us and equity instead of the people who are truly responsible is by design. It’s a sick, sick world. I’m well aware of the ill-intentioned people in this world, but they’re not the ones you’re describing in your comment.
You know who’s really draining resources? The rich, landlords, CEOs.
That’s mainly who I am referring to, btw. However, I do have a much more grim view on nature itself.
Its perfectly natural to see the world through rose colored classes. Unfortunately, I have seen too much of what the common person is capable of and not just on TV. I really want to believe that everyone wants to do “the right thing” in this world. By the same token, “the right thing” has a million different definitions.
I simply accept that everyone is capable of both wonderful things and also horrific things. It doesn’t take much to push a completely sane person into insanity. As an extreme example, war can do that to people. As a simple example, someone getting served cold fries at restaurant can be just as transforming.
By no means am I saying that living your life in fear and paranoia is a normal and healthy thing. It’s not. Everyone just needs to understand the best and worst of any situation.
If anything, doing as I suggest in my top comment would drastically reduce things like violence and hoarding resources. While it’s true that we are capable of both good and bad, it is also true that inherently inequitable systems like capitalism and the state greatly exacerbate the bad.
Therefore, the proper way to address this is to replace our current unjust/inequitable systems with systems that provide basic needs to all.
As a simple example, someone getting served cold fries at restaurant can be just as transforming.
What.
And I believe what you say, in principle. However, people are still going to be people. Unless there is a massive shift in how an entire society thinks, a fair share is simply not enough for a lot of people.
Capitalism is just a symptom of the human condition. A lot of people desire power and control and will build empires to feed those desires. IMHO, this behavior is baked into our DNA at a very primal level. When we cannot get power and control ourselves, we tend to form hierarchies under people who do. Some societies are better at it than others but it always happens, one way or another.
To say a few simple steps will be reduce violence and resource hoarding is absolutely true. Unfortunately, I have to circle back to the previous paragraph: People will always desire more power and more control and will squabble over the most trivial things in an attempt to maintain what power and resources they may already have.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree that we can improve our own lives by helping those around us. It helps to surround yourself with people of a similar mindset, actually. However, I choose not to minimize the hell that is mother nature and what has shaped life on this planet for millions of years.
What
Have you never seen anyone completely loose their shit over the most trivial things? I have. Plenty of times. While I intended to use a made up example, I guess weirder shit has actually happened: https://abc7ny.com/mcdonalds-worker-shot-matthew-webb-michael-morgan-brooklyn/12100882/
People are as brilliant as they are stupid.
I’ve seen people lose their shit. I’ve worked in customer service. Most of it stems from the stress of living under capitalism and the pressures of a hierarchical state.
There’s a lot to unpack here, but I’d urge you to read Mutual Aid by Peter Kropotkin. Even just the first chapter or two, I think would change your opinion about human nature. I’ve experienced many setbacks, but I’ve seldom been so cynical to think that human nature is inherently selfish and greedy. TL;DR of that book, our ability to evolve relies more on mutual aid than on power and control. This applies even to other animals, when you start to look at it. The book cites multiple examples.
If you’re not up to reading that, then AudibleAnarchist has been uploading an audiobook:
This is tangential and anecdotal, but I’ve been beaten, abused, stolen from, manipulated, raped, humiliated, bullied, jailed … and I still don’t believe this crap is human nature. The kind of society I (and many others) envision can be a reality. I know it can.
That last paragraph is horrible. I mean that in the most supportive and sympathetic ways possible and I am sorry anyone has had to go through that. If I could hug you now, I would hug you now.
Unfortunately, I believe some people are just assholes. Same as you, I have been stolen from, bullied and abused as well. Even our combined experiences would be a cakewalk for some other more unfortunare people. In some ways, I am actually sympathetic to the people who feel the need to do those things to others.
Again, people are capable of great things! However, my experiences have not left me with fear or hate but rather, an abundance of caution. My opinions are just the summation of my experiences, after all. There are very few people that gave a shit when I was in my darkest of places, excluding some family. Quite honestly, other people have their own issues to deal with and my problems are not their concern.
The only brutal reality is unfettered capitalism. We have more than enough to provide everyone with much better than we currently do. The fact is that half of the US’s resources are horded by literally a handful of individuals. You want to talk about survivability, what do you think it means to allow so few to have so much power? How do you think that ends?
Humans are capable of great things and can work great together. Even one on one, most people are excellent to each other, actually.
Unfortunately, all it takes is a thin layer of anonymity to expose the worst in people. We see it online, in traffic and during times of crisis. Even now, people are more likely to express their real feelings and tell me that I am wrong or I am trying to be a “pseudo intellectual” in one case. Cool. That is within their rights but it doesn’t improve my outlook on society in any way.
The peudointellectual appears.
It’s not an intellectual conversation.
If a pseudointellectual could hang with actual intellectuals, they’d just be an intellectual.
Not since you commented, anyway.
It’s not that nobody deserves a yacht, it’s that capitisim gives yachts to the wrong people. My middle school librarian deserves a yacht, my 9th grade science teacher deserves a yacht, Jefferson Bezoar does not deserve a yacht.
It’s not that Bezes doesn’t deserve a yacht. It’s that he doesn’t deserve 176.9 million of them. If all money in the US was distributed equally then everyone in the US could have a small yacht. But of course we can’t be ignoring the rest of the world.
If money was distributed equally among adults in the US, everyone would make around $90k/year income. Not enough to afford a yacht. Not even enough to afford a house in some parts of the country. That’s kind of mind blowing to me.
If everyone would make $90k then the economy would be completely different.
I think Lamborghini would be making some budget version of their current supercars, that would never come to exist in a 90k world.
To just name a random item that popped in my head.
If everyone would make $90k then the economy would be completely different.
$600 gallon of milk. It goes on from there.
Before we go on from there, I’d like to know how you got to $600 milk.
However, if that’s to every adult, then couples would be making $180k combined, with which they might be able to save up for a yacht or a house
My household income is $180k and we are definitely not yacht rich, and our house is very modest. I’m in one of the most affordable cities in the US.
Fair enough
And it would last just one generarion, because that amount of money would not be generared if not for those suckers hoarding money
Why does your middle school librarian deserve the life’s work of so many people? Just because someone is a great individual or has am impactful job (that’s done by many others aswell)?
I think it’s really “why should they get a thing for free that I’ve been working so hard for?” while they should be asking “why do I have to work so hard just to afford a decent place to live?”
“I AM A MILLIONAIRE, I AM A MILLIONAIRE, I AM-”
[smash cut to an apartment like mine that leaks when it rains too hard]
an old client always said:
“i’m working on my second million…”
…
“i gave up on the first one.”
The original quote is “Temporarily embarrassed capitalists,” which I think says a lot more about where we are.
Would love to own a yacht but only if I had enough money to pay people to do maintenance. Owning even a much smaller boat is fucking annoying.
The real cost of a boat is like 90% maintenance costs. It’s just a money pit, honestly.
The better use of obscene riches is to charter a yacht that has a full crew when you want to go out. Otherwise, you’re just burning cash.
Two happiest days of a boat owner: when buying the boat and when selling it
Oh so this is why so many of my yuppie nenighbors have a rotting boat in their yard that hasn’t been touched in decades. NGL though, hundredrabbits vlog of sailing across the ocean from canada to japan and back in a yamaha 33 is some really inspirational stuff and I love the idea of doing something adventurous like that once in my life even if its supremely dangerous.
If I ever get rich enough to buy boats, they’ll mostly be jet skis. Fairly inexpensive (for a boat) and tons of fun
It’s actually really affordable to do that for your birthday or whatever. In Mexico you can rent a nice boat for a few hundred dollars for the afternoon. What are you actually going to do with a boat besides use it on vacation?
would it even make sense to own a yacht on your own? how much will one person realistically use one
Woah hold on there, it’s not like the Bible (that they point to as the source of authority e.g. that is why what Israel does is “good”) says “the worker deserves their wages”, or “treat the immigrant and poor among you as your own”, or “whatsoever you do to the least of these, it’s like you are doing it directly to me”, or even more foundational basics like “show kindness to people”… right?
The effects of brainwashing are quite strong. We need to find a way to get even stronger if we want to overcome.
They’re called guns
The rich fund the antigun movement.
And cops.
Some. It’s a mixed bag with cops. I know cops who want everyone armed.
I mean that is how America was first founded, but it definitely was not ONLY those. The real enemy (mostly) isn’t people, but ideas. And even framing the issue as “us” vs. “them” smacks more of conservative divisive thought that distracts from finding real solutions.
The hard part is that it is SO much easier to destroy than to create. And occasionally you need to do both.
“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”
Ephesians 6:12
Precisely.
Also Revelation 3:15-16 where Jesus says that He will spit lukewarm people out of His mouth, lamenting that they were neither hot nor cold.
Also James 2:19 citing how even demons “believe in God”, and tremble in fear as a result.
Also Matthew 18:6 better a millstone be hung around someone’s neck and be thrown into the depths of the sea than to lead a little one stray.
Also 2 Tim 3 having the outward appearance of godliness but denying the power thereof.
Also Matthew 24:24 about false teachers.
And there are TONS of verses saying to never add to the Bible - not Christ and vote Republican, or even simply vote along with Pro-Life policies (to the exclusion of all else). In fact there are several verses about who to judge, and also who to not judge - hint: judge the Christians but do not set up to be judges of the secular e.g. 1 Corinthians 5:12 the extraordinarily simple & plain language:
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
I wish most Evangelical Christians could - or rather would - read the Bible, rather than cite it as the reason/justification for the most heinous actions of murder, avarice, abuse, and so on. Ignoring everything that Trump does while inventing the most trivial of excuses to investigate Hunter Biden (fine… investigate him if we must, but in that case shouldn’t we also investigate Trump’s family too? especially since they were not merely family but he had them working inside the actual WH?).
Hey I have another verse btw: “Test everything against what you know to be true”. I stand with atheists, yes and some Christians too, and Muslims, and whoever it is that will actually be decent to one another. Whatever words are used, the actions define the person.
I was with you until you had to go and make it about politics.
Matthew 7:1-5: “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
True Christianity is not about using the Bible to whack others over the head with for misbehaving, it’s about working on yourself first and foremost. A very important part that too many people seem to forget is that Jesus did not just talk the talk, he walked the walk.
Judging a politician fairly and accurately is an extremely difficult job because we do not know them personally, and almost all the information we have about them has gone through many levels of filters (journalists, editorial boards, our social circle, etc.) which often tend to either leave out certain details or amplify and exaggerate them based on whether they agree with this politician or not. And just like the politician themselves, each of the people in each of the layers is a sinner, just like you and me.
So by all means, vote for the guy you think best represents your interests, but be careful about condemning others for choosing someone else because they don’t share the same judgement. They might know something you don’t know, or they might just be confused and propagandized, but if they’re you’re neighbors, it’s far more likely that you might one day come to depend on them than it is for your favorite politician to become dependent on you personally.
I used to think as you did. However, keep reading forward in Matthew, all the way to the end of the chapter (and beyond!) - in particular verses 15–20 are extremely relevant, I promise you, whether you want to call it “politics” or whatever, they are the literal words of Jesus and worth considering, imho:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
You seem to be telling me never to judge, or at least to be careful doing so. But we ARE commanded to judge! Not the “world” - i.e. what right do I have to tell some woman that she cannot have an abortion? again, 1 Corinthians 5:12 explains that she is to be left to God to deal with, not me - but our “chosen leaders”, THOSE are PRECISELY the people that we are COMMANDED to judge!? (and not, “if we feel up to it”, it is the command that is given so… I guess we better GET up to it then, as in if we need a year or ten of training, let’s get busy doing that then?)
Verses 21-23 also make a hella good point as well:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
I watched a video in 2021, I can never find it again but I think it may have been in Montana or some neighboring state, and in it a literal, currently-sitting iirc, Senator was speaking behind the literal pulpit of that church, it having been handed over to him for that purpose. He said that COVID was not real, and that although he was young, he had talked with 90+ year old senior Senators and thus THEY KNEW what was what, and that it was all a media hype - thus they should only ever pay attention to Fox News that told the “real story”, while every other station was lying to them. I bet it made sense to that congregation b/c they were a rural, not densely populated area, and 2020 passed leaving them relatively unaffected. However, this was a couple weeks prior to the Delta wave hitting… and he was telling them to ignore the factual news. I will never know how many people died as a result of this one person spreading such blatant misinformation. If he has since repented and stepped down from his position of authority, then that’s wonderful… but it still would not go back into the past and change what he did, nor does it abrogate the responsibility of that pastor who handed over that pulpit, meant to convey the authority of the Word of God, but which was used that day to spread political (Worldly) propaganda (and falsehoods at that even!). i.e., it is not me bringing politics into this, I am stating that politics has already been brought into this by many wayward churches. Just look at the statistics of how many young people are leaving religion behind in droves… and for good measure, b/c much of that “religion” is false, with much having been added, and some rather important bits taken away as well.
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
I pray that you will consider these words of God. You do not have to justify yourself to me - I am not your keeper - but you WILL be called to an account, and I would like you to receive blessings and be rich rather than admonishment and be poor. That is the measure that we ALL are held to, hence why I stated it - if it were not so then I would not have said it.
Also, may I point out from the very words that you chose to quote … that passage of Matthew 7:1-15 never says to not remove the speck from your brother’s eye. It says to FIRST remove the plank, then SECOND, after you can see clearly, remove the speck. Remaining in our ignorance and simply “not judging” anyone was never an option - both the plank and the speck have no place in His Kingdom. Also, please do not skip over the final verse that I left you with: “Test everything against what you know to be true”. I do not ask you to believe ME, but I am also saying to not believe a politician who, from ther fruits, have shown themselves to be of the world rather than of God. If they were confused… well, again, these are not MY words, but the very words of scripture condemns such a one: again Matthew 18:6 better a millstone be hung around someone’s neck and be thrown into the depths of the sea than to lead a little one stray. Maybe they should have gone to school a bit more, or apprenticed underneath someone for a bit longer, but when you take on a LEADERSHIP role, and for heaven’s sake especially when you choose to stand behind a literal PULPIT… that is supposed to mean something? And it seems that it does, to God at least, although free will I suppose means that we get to choose if we will go along with Him or not. i.e., 1+1=2, not whatever we want it to be, not even if we pray for it to be otherwise while asking God to set aside His very own Will that He created the universe to implement. Somehow even the atheists know that, and are afraid to go against it, while Evangelical Christians these days have spun up a nice story to absolve people of any responsibility for wrong-doing, if we only “meant well”, or perhaps “didn’t know”. But God isn’t Santa Claus, and hell isn’t fiction - this shit is life and/or death and moreover, of the most important meanings of those words even: eternal.
At least, that’s my two cents:-).
that passage of Matthew 7:1-15 never says to not remove the speck from your brother’s eye. It says to FIRST remove the plank, then SECOND, after you can see clearly, remove the speck.
Yes, that is correct, and that’s what I was trying to tell you, to judge yourself first and foremost, and only once you’ve found yourself without fault, to go on and judge others. Seeing how you mislabeled this as “Matthew 7:1-15” when it is really only verses 1-5 (and I labeled it correctly, I double-checked), perhaps there’s still some work you oughta do on yourself, just saying ;)
As for Matthew 18:6, again, that’s a reminder for YOU (and me) to be careful about choosing our words so we do not lead anyone, especially children, astray with any false logic or arguments. It’s saying that God’s punishment for those who do this is more severe than having a millstone hung around your neck and be thrown into the sea, so there is no need for US to add to it. See also John 8:7 (“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”).
As for the false prophets, I don’t think it’s too far fetched to just assume that ANY politician is more likely than not to be one of them. After all, it seems that the majority of them is mostly in the game for personal gain, as they invariably all seem to get rich off it while you and I pay the bill via our taxes. Has any of them ever kept their promises? Or isn’t expecting them to solve your problems for you kinda like… picking grapes from thornbushes?
Just to be clear, I’m not claiming I have all the answers, I am just trying to give you another perspective (see Proverbs 27:17). But the more I read the Bible, the more I see it to be about personal responsibility than anything else. Yes, most of the people in almost ANY church are sinners, THAT’S WHY THEY’RE THERE. As Matthew 9:12 says, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.”
Take care and be well, my friend.
Those things are true, but the average Christian or for that matter anyone who doesn’t own a house can’t give a house to someone else. It’s the rich who need to be forced to care for others, the poor often already give out of their lack.
A LEADER is the one in charge. Behind the wheel of a car, that means the driver - so e.g. if someone is driving drunk, then yes we blame them, not necessarily for killing someone when they plough right over them, but earlier than that for getting behind the wheel in the first place.
An entire nation is a heck of a lot more complicated to operate than a motor vehicle.
Relevant Innuendo Studios: https://youtu.be/agzNANfNlTs
I don’t agree with the statement that no one deserves a yacht. Luxury goods should be available to people whose labor contributes massively to the benefit of society. My main concern is that the only people who are buying yachts overwhelmingly afford so through nothing but exploitation and rigging.
If you can build a yacht with your own two hands, you deserve a yacht.
If you bleed your customers and employees dry to get the funds to buy a yacht, you do not deserve a yacht.
Edit - To be put another way, suits that spends their days schmoozing with other suits, and dictating priorities at a high level, do not deserve 1000x the compensation of the employees actually doing the work. That profit should be shared.
If you can build with your own hands, you deserve a phone.
Let me guess, you also built your own car, maintain your own private roads, plumb your house, create your own electricity, and grow your own food?
People found out about twelve thousand years ago that there’s productivity in numbers and that the most efficient way to produce goods is to let personal interest steer people to create the things they want, and to build an economy based on that.
As an aside, you do know what a yacht is, don’t you? If decorated pediatric neurosurgeon Dr. Abernathy wants to retire in the gulf and buy a 30 foot yacht for a few hundred grand after a lifetime of service to society, I’m not going to cry about it.
I suppose my mind went immediately to gratuitous party / mega yachts. But yeah, a modest family sized yacht is an appropriate luxury for an enthusiast.
If you can build a yacht with your own two hands, you deserve a yacht.
Calm down Noah.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. These guys with their yachts got them by artificially controlling the real estate market.
Yeah because I’d like to continue my $40k lifestyle instead of being forced to starve in a communist utopia.
Denmark is a drastically better place to live than the United States. Your life would be better if you had been born there.
Who benefits by hiding this fact from you?
And in Denmark is that a result of them making it illegal to own yachts?
It’s from having radically more generous social programs than exist in the United States
Everyone knows, when Workers share tools rather than using tools owned and controlled by 1 dude, everyone is forced to starve. You can tell because tools have mystical qualities and influence the minds of whoever owns them, that’s why it’s better to only have 1 evil Capitalist, than have everyone be evil and also starve.
It’s like Lord of the Rings, Capitalists are our Frodo.
The problem here is “no one deserves a yacht”.
That’s what makes this communist utopianism.
What the fuck does that mean? Would you have been upset at peasants for saying that nobody deserves a jewel encrusted crown and a gold-covered toilet while your fellow man starves?
Saying that nobody deserves a yacht is just true. No amount of work is worth a yacht unless they built it themselves, and if the rest of society says yachts serve a good purpose then people can have yachts even in Communism.
Social housing = starvation
Checkmate Austria 😎
Can you show me a housing project that’s not also a food desert, or a place where people literally starved to death?
