More anticompetitive moves from Apple. Surprise!
Considering that even if it’s moving slow the EU won’t give its approval to that “fee despite not using anything from them”-charge.
Yeah, I’m baffled at Apple’s response to this. Like I get WHY they’re doing it, I just don’t understand why they’d think they’ll get away with it. How would this not get slammed with more anti-competitive lawsuits in the EU? The whole reason they’re even being forced to allow 3rd party downloads was due to the anti-competitive nature of forcing everything into their app store, right?
It’s all about testing how far they can go and what they can get away with and tying things up in legal recourse for as long as possible. They know they’ll have to comply eventually but they will drag their feet a good while more. Dumb compliance, malicious compliance, expect them to try everything. They don’t really want to do this but can’t come outright and say it.
See also how Meta was told to stop collecting people’s data and what did they do — they offered people a choice between paying a monthly fee and giving up their data willingly. It’s this kind of devious compliance you can expect from Apple too.
I just don’t understand why they’d think they’ll get away with it.
They don’t. Looking at Wikipedia’s summary of the DMA, it appears there’s a lot of room for interpretation and detailed rulings from regulators with respect to each gatekeeper company’s obligations. Apple is choosing an interpretation that’s extremely favorable to Apple as an opening position in what’s sure to be a negotiation if not a court battle.
Regulators could take the position that Apple must allow users to install applications from any source with no interference by or payments to Apple, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the final outcome is close to that.
There really doesn’t appear to be any room for misinterpretation or negotiation on this one. From the DMA:
(57) If dual roles are used in a manner that prevents alternative service and hardware providers from having access under equal conditions to the same operating system, hardware or software features that are available or used by the gatekeeper in the provision of its own complementary or supporting services or hardware, this could significantly undermine innovation by such alternative providers, as well as choice for end users. The gatekeepers should, therefore, be required to ensure, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features that are available or used in the provision of its own complementary and supporting services and hardware. Such access can equally be required by software applications related to the relevant services provided together with, or in support of, the core platform service in order to effectively develop and provide functionalities interoperable with those provided by gatekeepers. The aim of the obligations is to allow competing third parties to interconnect through interfaces or similar solutions to the respective features as effectively as the gatekeeper’s own services or hardware.
(7) The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper. Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services.
This is black and white. Access must be free of charge. There are provisions for necessary limitations to access based on security risks, but there are no provisions for charging a fee for access.
I’m charging you $1 for that comment. I’ll have my lawyers tally your overview and they’ll provide the total sum you owe me.
I’m all about customer care so I’m happy to extend the usual 30 day due period out to 90, but you’ll need to subscribe to the Protection Plan for that benefit, which is only $4.99 a month. But your first 100 comments are free. So, really it’s a way better option for you financially over the 24 month period the contract runs for. If you comment a lot, you might be interested in the Premium Plan.
For an extra $2.99, the Premium plan also means I’ll manage your password and post for you.
But don’t take my word for it, here’s Doja Cat…
It’s just buying time, so they can make a few billions more until then.
The EU said they will be no exceptions. It’s open or open.
developers can offer other payment options outside the App Store, but they still need to pay Apple a 27% fee. In addition, they have to follow some guidelines to promote an external link while also reporting to Apple about every purchase made through this external link so the company can charge a fee.
I think the meeting at Apple when they were discussing this must have gone something like Well how hard can we fuck them before their arsehole ruptures? A bit more? Sure let’s go for it. Lube? Nah we don’t need that.
Tim Cook is not British, and would say “asshole.” Kindly get your facts straight before posting on the interwebs, sir/madam/other. /s
Humble apologies 😜
Why does anyone actually like this company? Or thinks they are pro-consumer?
Serious response: the average consumer doesn’t give a fuck.
Most people don’t know this is going on.
Most people couldn’t care less about side-loading apps. They’ll only ever get stuff from the app store.
And then there is the contingent that buy apples products because of their walled garden ecosystem. They want to trust the apps they download are vetted by apple. They don’t care if the air pods don’t have all the features if you use them on Android because they’ll always have an iPhone. They don’t care if they can’t customize xyz on their phone because they like the design choices or will always adapt to the choices apple made.
If all of this sounds really shitty to you, you probably aren’t their target demographic.
Continue not buying their stuff. It crazy how worked up non-customers get over this stuff. It’s not like rabid apple fans are grabbing their pitchforks. It’s always Android weenies(self included in that group) that do the bitching.
I have seriously considered switching the last few years because, at the very least, they pay lip service to privacy. They also have different incentives in terms of data harvesting since they don’t also run a giant ad business at their core (Google). This type of lawsuit isn’t the reason I haven’t. It’s dumb shit like not having a back button or knowing where basic things are.
It crazy how worked up non-customers get over this stuff. It’s not like rabid apple fans are grabbing their pitchforks.
See, here is where we disagree. The amount of revenue Apple generates, makes them an example for other companies, and you see them start making the same dumb choices.
I want this trend of tech enshittification to stop and the brain-dead Apple fans are to blame. Because they allow themselves to get milked for revenue, the whole consumer space has to deal with companies trying hard to nudge the boundaries with every new product. All aimed at extracting just a little more money than they did before.
So no, in addition to not buying their shit devices and services, it actually helps to make others stop buying their shit as well. I am done allowing people to take the easy way out and to stay ignorant about the consequences of their choices. If you praise Apple to me, you’re going to get an earful.
I don’t think a back button is needed - just swipe from the left of the screen?
It’s pity because they definitely know how to do hardware but I will never spend or buy their products.
Right, like how they design connectors that when shorted will instantly fry your CPU.
Or the part where they design flex cables that are too short for you to bend your screen back all the way.
There is a long list of hardware fuck ups that are outright stupid choices that competent engineers would never make. The only reason these defects exist is because they cause people to buy new devices more frequently.
They know how to do fancy hardware, not how to do reliable and durable hardware.
It’s always Android weenies(self included in that group) that do the bitching.
Oh, I’ve seen my fair share of Apple users being all high and mighty.
I have seriously considered switching the last few years because, at the very least, they pay lip service to privacy
Their privacy is a joke. They harvest your data as much as anyone. Sure, Google harvests a little more, but given that Apple with their premium prices on everything could manage without harvesting data at all, yeah, they’re as shitty as Google.
I just wished it was as easy as making apk files but for apple devices, I don’t want to pay for an apple developer account every year so I could make a free app for my family to use.
In the meantime you can use SideStore to side load two apps on your iOS device. Down side you need to open the SideLoad once a week and renew access to your side loaded apps.
Didn’t realize there were multiple of these. AltStore works pretty well too
AltStore requires you to have a the AltServer opened on your Mac and your phone on the same WiFi to refresh. SideStore is branched off AltStore but allows to renew and install apps right from your iPhone (you only need a computer for the first install of SideStore iOS app, or if you to re-activate if you go past the renew date). I had AltStore before and SideStore is much easier to deal with imo.
For anyone looking to sideload on their iPhone without jailbreaking or paying for a dev account, look into Trollstore, if your IOS version is compatable, you can sideload unlimited apps thanks to the 2 coretrust bugs.
To use trollstore you need to make an IPA app. I use react native with expo which requires apple developer account to sign the app before compiling, or you need to own a Mac to use Xcode to compile, which no one in my family owns one.
What about a MacOS virtual machine? If you use Linux, SomeOridnaryGamers has a video on how to set one up.
Look into a tool called expo. Maybe it only works with react native, but I was using it to load an app I was building onto testers devices and I didn’t have a developer account.
Look into SideStore. It allows two apps to be sideloaded for free with app refresh without a computer.
Cute that they think they can cat away with this. Noooo waaay.
we’ll have to wait to discover if Europe is satisfied with Apple’s doing or if the company is still promoting anticompetitive behavior.
I don’t understand why is this a question at all.
Of course it is. Very obviously it would be anticompetitive behavior.
Apple being Apple.
So it must be like this:
They see a way to interpret what the EU means in the worst way possible, BUT it’s only so they can go to court.
Why would they? Because they would be able to keep their monopoly until the case is done. Basically, buying time.
They’re probably confident that they can get away with this cheap (or by paying less than what they’ll gain).
Extremely shitty done by Apple, but a common strategy among shitty companies.
This might be their strategy. There’s no way they could come to the conclusion they’d be allowed to continue charging a fee for access. The DMA is explicit:
(57) If dual roles are used in a manner that prevents alternative service and hardware providers from having access under equal conditions to the same operating system, hardware or software features that are available or used by the gatekeeper in the provision of its own complementary or supporting services or hardware, this could significantly undermine innovation by such alternative providers, as well as choice for end users. The gatekeepers should, therefore, be required to ensure, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features that are available or used in the provision of its own complementary and supporting services and hardware. Such access can equally be required by software applications related to the relevant services provided together with, or in support of, the core platform service in order to effectively develop and provide functionalities interoperable with those provided by gatekeepers. The aim of the obligations is to allow competing third parties to interconnect through interfaces or similar solutions to the respective features as effectively as the gatekeeper’s own services or hardware.
(7) The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper. Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services.
It’s an incredibly risky strategy, as the fine is payable immediately. That’s up to $38B for the first offence. They’ve had years to check compliance with the EU, so leaving it to the last minute then claiming “confusion” won’t be a valid defence. If Apple continues to renege on their legal responsibilities, a second fine of up to $76B can be levied. There are additional fees for late payments and other infractions too. The EU legal system uses the principle of the spirit of the law. This is contrasted with the US system which is the “letter of the law.” As such, constructive evasion isn’t taken lightly in the EU. Anything but free access is clearly intentional non-compliance.
Must say, I’m a fan of “spirit of the law”.
Then there’s no “bUt tHiS wOrD cOuLd mEaN tHiS iF tRaNsLatEd 50 tImEs tHroUgH gOoGle TrAnSlaTe iN 1874”
Exactly. Avoiding the clear intent of a law by using weasel words has always pissed me off about the U.S. legal system.
So with apple being shit and me not really liking samsung recently, what Android phones are good? I’m eyeing Lenovo since they make solid laptops but are they any better?
Pixel is the only decent Android phone if you don’t like Samsung.
And even then, it’s not that good.
I’ve been using them since the Pixel 2. The Nexus 6P was the last good Google Phone.
But the alternative options aren’t any better.
I have no complaints about Pixel 4a and I’m planning to upgrade to 8 soon.
The pixels are fine, but I have the Pixel 8 Pro and it still has too many bugs considering it’s Google and I’m getting real tired of the enshittification of all of Google’s services and apps.
Every year they get either more bloated, more hindered, or killed altogether.
I’m really bitter about Google Play Music and Google Podcasts being killed. Along with Google Now.
Pixel with GrapheneOS is pretty good.
Although be aware the fingerprint reader is now behind the screen, and is a lot worse than the dedicated reader in my crappy 6 year old Chinaphone.
I only use a password so yeah.
Lenovo is a solid choice for a laptop. I really would encourage you to explore Linux rather than Windows. Pop_os and Elementary both have a MacOS feel - I use Pop_os
As far as phones, I use a Pixel 6a, the 6a is the budget model - it performs well and has a great camera. The good thing about androids is that you can customize the hell out of em. Fairphone is another one I would recommend because you can do all of your own repairs if that is important to you.
The Samsung Galaxy line is very popular and they just announced they will support the phone for at least the next 7 years - so there’s longevity there - so dunno if that will change your mind, a lot of kinks have been worked out ( just don’t buy their appliances)
Good luck - happy to answer any questions
Ubuntu cinnamon user for the last year and a half love it. As for phones I have an s22 but I’m tired of all the bullshit bloatware that comes on it. Like I cannot fully uninstall Facebook on this thing without knowledge of how to use adb. And if uninstall something samsung deems critical, it could break half the features on the phone.
Do pixels have bs apps on the system partition?
They have some Google apps that you can’t remove but there is no true bloatware.
Plus if you are more privacy oriented you can install some custom ROMs with literally no bloatware or overhead.
Can you install roms on any variant of pixels? I know usa phones are sometimes a pain in the ass with locked bootloaders
Not to mention VPN based ad blockers (Rethink DNS ad blocker is foss)
I am using adguard, but yes, if you are a more advanced user I would say Android is the way to go
I have been quite happy with Nokias (HMD Global). Only downside is poor spare part availability.
Nokia g22 and g42 5g dont have that problem. They were desinged to be fixed and they are doing cooperation with ifixit
Motorola is good but their camera can do some work. Otherwise those phones are great too. OnePlus 12 also just came out and has a great price to performance ratio
Both of these have very good battery life
I’m getting real sick of Apple. I used to be a pretty big Apple fanboy, but over time I have been starting to resent them more and more.
It started a few years ago, when I needed a new laptop because the 2016 MacBook Pro had the backlight not working defect and I was out of the period to get it fixed.
I looked at the MacBook Air, but even to this day, it only has 256gb hard drive and 8gb ram. After upgrading the storage space, the price was insanely high. I don’t mind paying extra for an upgrade to storage and ram, but not $400 more for something that should be the standard amount at this point.
Then iMessage being locked to iPhone. Since I’m from the US but don’t live there I’m pretty locked into iOS for iMessage unless I want to deal with and pay for international messaging.
Now, once they’re forced to open the app store, something that a lot of people want, they are being so petty about it.
I just got an iPhone 15 to upgrade from my iPhone XR, but I’m really thinking about just moving to a pixel and saying buy to Apple for Good.
You know what really sucks? Is that I’m in the exact opposite situation you’re in. I’ve been using Pixels since they came out and androids since the Galaxy S3.
I’m so done with Google and their shitty, inconsistent services that I’ve been waiting for Apple to open up iOS to sideloading and Firefox so that I could leave Android.
Turns out the grass is brown and dying on both sides and we consumers have a choice between two trash options.
international messaging? wtf? what’s app, Facebook messenger, the 100s pf other ones you could use. I,hate apple too but come on now
The onus is upon him to force all his friends, family and other contacts to switch? That doesn’t seem reasonable.
seriously, how hard is it to ask your mum to install a single app so you don’t have to pay to message her? what will that take like 5 seconds?
i have plenty of friends overseas who use ios and we message just fine. surprisingly they didn’t defriend me when i requested they install an app we can both use.
wtf sort of shitty friends and family do you have??
I find it intriguing that you’re only just now discovering the challenge facing many smartphone users in the United States, where the use of iMessage is dominant.
The problem isn’t with 1:1 chats, but with being excluded from group chats. If everybody is chatting on iMessage, I’m sure you can find the challenge in getting everybody to use your preferred alternative.
How will this work if you dont even use their store?
It is still a fully locked down device. They will just ban every app signed by your key.
How I wish a certain country didn’t Brexit. 😔
:surprised pikachu face:
