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Freedom of speech… until you try to use it.
The most protected form of speech is money. Apparently. Which is really weird since money isn’t, you know, speech, at all. But what do I know, I’m broke as shit.
The universities can’t hear you over AIPAC and other rich genocide apologists shouting into their bank accounts 😮💨
I SAID… *checks wallet* ah fuck apparently nothing.
The more money you have the more innocent you are. Billionaires are basically the most innocent people in society, while the poor are most guilty.
Honestly we use the same argument when the right gets shut down by other institutions, like when Twitter banned Trump for being, well, ya know. We can’t have it both ways.
What is different is that Trump was banned because he was being hateful and here we see the same right being used to block people asking maybe let’s not continue doing/aiding a genocide please. I can’t say we should regulate that deep but it does make me sad that we can’t just do the right thing here out of fear that it might lose some money or the kind of audience that doesn’t care about a genocide.
yes we can have it both ways. goose and gander arguments are tools that sociopaths use to justify their shitty behavior.
While I generally agree with that the thing I’m getting at is that we lose credibility when the argument we use is one that can be easily turned back onto us. “Freedom of speech only protects you from the government” is correct here. We also generally agree that hatespeech should be regulated by the government even within private settings, which makes sense.
I get why a stadium would not want to see that stuff and why they’re allowed to say what can be present on their property. What I don’t agree with is the fact that by denying the protestors in such a way they are trying to take a stance of neutrality in a situation where neutrality is just a technically ok way to say that Palestinians matter less than their football game or whatever this is.
I’m pissed at the fact that U.S. citizens need to protest like this to get any kind of traction while their government sells weapons to the aggressor in a very one-sided genocidal rampage. I’m pissed that the stadium is not only worried about money first, but that they believe that allowing support for Palestinians would hurt them more than it would help them.
TL;DR It’s insane that we would even need to consider making laws that would make moral decisions like this for us. I get hate-speech, that’s a fairly easy one to legislate, but to decide also what’s right and force people to support things starts to get weird and you know it would be misused in a flash. The world is not a good enough place for that kinda thing.
protests are useless and it’s pointless to try to be on a moral high ground against conservatives. conservatives don’t care about hypocrisy. they will point out your hypocrisy if it serves them in an argument and will ignore their own when it is turned back on them.
don’t waste your time trying to be an example of a good person. it will do nothing to change their mind. sweep the fucking leg instead. that was always the answer.
if you want to see change in this world, stop debating your enemy and start setting up booby traps for them.
Holy shit, this is universally up voted? Are the people here really this uninformed when it comes to free speech? Not one person has challenged you on this BS?
Free speech is something that protects you from the government. This is clearly some private event that has the right to allow or disallow whatever they want on their property. This is like if I was invited into your house, I called your wife a cunt, you asked me to leave, and then I said the ridiculously stupid “you’re violating my freedom of speech!”
Is the Lemmy hive mind even more dumb than reddits?
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNC, UNC-Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Chapel Hill, or simply Carolina) is a public research university in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Chapel_Hill
The First Amendment to the Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its content. Restrictions on speech by public colleges and universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the Constitution.
https://www.aclu.org/documents/speech-campus
First sentence on the Wiki and on the ACLU page. Go back to Reddit if you’re going to be ignorant and insult people.
Fair point, I thought it was a private university when I clicked through. Although I do believe they retain the right to limit disruptive speech at these types of events.
While you are free to say what you want, you don’t have the freedom from consequences of what you say, except from being critical of the government. I think that’s the point he was trying to make, but he wasn’t very articulate about it.
But there still are limited restriction, for example you can’t talk about (or even look at) any classified information you come across. And whistle blowing has become all but illegal.
Holy shit, this is universally up voted? Are the people here really this uninformed when it comes to free speech? Not one person has challenged you on this BS?
Free speech is something that protects you from the government. This is clearly some private event that has the right to allow or disallow whatever they want on their property. This is like if I was invited into your house, I called your wife a cunt, you asked me to leave, and then I said the ridiculously stupid “you’re violating my freedom of speech!”
Is the Lemmy hive mind even more dumb than reddits?
Yes, exactly. All those people complaining when they get banned off of a platform and then yelling “but mah freedumb of speech!” Also have no idea what freedom of speech means. It’s right there in the “terms of services” they agreed to when they signed up.
Freedom of speech also does not mean freedom from consequences. Charles Manson is the best example of this. He never murdered anyone by his own hand, but he convinced other people to do so with his own words. So he got a life sentence. And what he said was all done in private, not in public.
I think the non-cropped version with the corporate sponsors shows it better.
This oppression was brought to you by Nissan.
All together now: “We all live in a fascist regime, a fascist regime, a fascist regime”
Oh my god, was Yellow Submarine just Cockney rhyming slang this whole time?
Is there such a thing as Scouse rhyming slang? 😉
We don’t need it. No one from outside the city can understand a single thing we say anyway.
Using “fascistic” instead of “fascist” would make the rhythm work. Definitely not your point but it bothers me…
The missing syllable in the rhythm is the one that needs the stress, and putting stress on the -ic doesn’t sound right.
Here’s one that works with the meter better:
“…a fascist fuck regime”
I think it works better this way.
Also, “fascistic” sounds as silly as “racistic” to my ear.
As a trained musicist, I agree.
Rammstein?
We don’t, but if y’all manage to get Trump reelected we will.
Nobody is saying Trump will be better. People are, however, pointing out that we are currently seeing signs of fascism in the failing US Empire.
Man, college football is hyper-capitalist.
I wish the players would unionize. Most donate their labor in a very violent sport through which the NCAA pulls in billions of dollars.
I wish the players would unionize.
Fate of the Union: How Northwestern football union nearly came to be
the school threw its weight behind defeating the union push. Dan Persa, the former Wildcats quarterback, warned players that Fitzgerald might leave if they voted for the union. Players heard other ominous warnings—that donations could dry up, or a new $225 million athletic center could be scrapped. Players got calls from alums telling them that casting their lot with Colter could hurt their job prospects after graduation; the Northwestern alumni network would desert them.
…
Colter felt as if his former teammates no longer trusted him. Northwestern’s campaign had worked. He polled the room, and it was clear the school would win the election. Even some of his closest confidants from the previous months weren’t with him anymore. Players now questioned his motives: Why had he given them only a day to sign the cards? He also noticed that most African-American players supported the union and most white players opposed it. “There was a huge divide,” Colter says. “The majority of the team was split along racial lines. It was just ugly.”
…
On Aug. 17, 2015, the NLRB in Washington finally issued its ruling on Northwestern’s appeal. The five members unanimously agreed not to exert the board’s jurisdiction over whether Northwestern’s football players were university employees. Perhaps fearful of the consequences of upending the governance of college sports, the board punted. The union ballots would never be counted. The status quo reigned.
The challenge is in the outsized influence the NFL and the alumni association hold over players who will only ever be in the program for at most five years. Players have a huge incentive (the NFL draft) to toe the line while the school has a huge monetary incentive to fight back aggressively. And the NLRB is routinely stacked with corporate flacks intent on devolving labor power to business administrators.
So much of football is a complex web of social networks - coaches, advertisers, state administrators, big donors - that determine whether any player actually puts a foot on the field. And none of them want to see players organized. Not when the deal they’ve currently got is so sweet.
Trying to get a 19-year-old high school recruit to understand their value before an injury takes them off the field, when these top picks are surrounded by recruiters and alumni and other shady characters who want the exact opposite… its very hard. These kids are trapped in a bubble from day one. And they’re all rendered disposable, unless they can reach out to one another and hang together.
Donate their brains as well. Imagine going to “higher education” just to get cte.
Will someone please think of the shareholders?! /s
Pretty sure that’s UNC’s motto.
“speech is money” -US Supreme court
“no money, no speech” US Supreme court, probably
I’m confused. Am I supposed to leave or remove the signs?
What about this massive sign? What if I ask to take down the jumbotron?
Canada too
We’ll have to go quite far on a list of countries by population size or something to find one which isn’t like that
Pulled some suggestions and maybe Nepal as the 49th country on the list is neither? I don’t know the specifics of their system
That sign needs to be hacked or destroyed.
Corporate kleptocracy
Capitalism
you misspelled shithole
Edit: This has been incorrectly downvoted. Please see the wiki definition of “nonpublic forum”:
"A nonpublic forum is not specially designated as open to public expression. For example, jails, public schools, and military bases are nonpublic forums (unless declared otherwise by the government). Such forums can be restricted based on the content (i.e., subject matter) of the speech, but not based on viewpoint. Thus, while the government could prohibit speeches related to abortion on a military base, it could not permit an anti-abortion speaker while denying an abortion rights speaker (or vice versa).
Regardless of the type of forum, any exclusion must be done on a viewpoint neutral basis. Exclusion based on the speaker’s viewpoint is unconstitutional"
Okay. I feel that this needs to be said because we’re having the same sort of kneejerk reaction that conservatives have when the law doesn’t side with them.
You are in a nonpublic forum… You do not have the right to trespass. If they feel that you are being a nuisance, then they 100% have the right to ask you to leave. This is not a violation of your 1st Amendment right.
Now…I 100% believe that protests should be disruptive, and I totally support any one of these students that decide to protest, you’re doing what you think is right, that’s awesome. But we also need to be realistic here, a company or private entity asking you to leave the property doesn’t mean or show proof that we live in a Capitalist Oligarchy. Not saying that we don’t…but we should atleast get our facts straight.
Clarification: I’ve updated private property to correctly state nonpublic forum.
You are on private property.
It’s a state school, it’s public property.
Also, if this keeps happening they’ll just sell all the public property
And give up that sweet sweet government money?
No, it’s government property, and it’s technically considered a nonpublic forum. You’d have to follow the same rules as you would at any other private property and you must have legitimate business there, much like you would an airport (which is also government run and again, a nonpublic forum).
The fuck is “legitimate business?” You need a boarding pass and id to get in an airport, I can go sit on a bench and look at squirrels on campus all day and nobody will bug me.
I’m just trying to tell you that it’s not “public” in that you can just access it whenever you want. Students and friends/family of that student are attending an event that they’ve been invited or allowed entry to. They are allowed to be there until the school, government, or whatever governing entity says so.
You’re campus is called a public forum, in that it’s accessible to the public and is an allowed gathering area for non-students as well as students. This is different than a nonpublic forum.
You can’t just walk into the stadium to go use the field, or hang out in the stands, or do whatever you want. You need permission or have some sort of authorization allowing you to be there, like an ID, a pass, a ticket, or whatever the government entity that is running that stadium is permitting otherwise it’s considered trespassing (much like private property), and they can ask you to leave at any point.
Any articles showing them in the stadium? All I can find is that they were “nearby,” meaning not inside.
Nevermind I found the disconnect. This was in the stadium during commencement to preempt any protests during it.
Okay. [Bullshit]
Look up nonpublic forums.
Man do I hate authoritarianism, but I love college football…
Shameless plug for our cfb community, [email protected]
Shameless indeed.
I mean I told no lies
