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- cross-posted to:
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If autism gave you super-intelligence with quirky social deficiencies everyone would want it.
But that’s not how it works.
It kinda is. At least for some of us. It’s more like super-intelligence about an incredibly narrow topic that probably doesn’t matter. Some of us win the lottery and our special interests align with something in the world that capitalism values highly. Like one of my special interests is computer science, math, and logic. So I’m good at programming. Some people with autism have a special interest in one obscure comic strip from the 1930s, which makes it hard to get a job that they can succeed in.
Some people with autism have a special interest in one obscure comic strip from the 1930
To be fair, Nancy is kind of a whole mood.
Do you think you’d be smart enough to do those jobs well if I could give you a magic pill that took away the autism?
Is it even a meaningful question to ask if you can unpick the autistic traits from the rest of you ?
Frankly I don’t think it’s a meaningful question. I don’t think my personality would survive untangling all of my AuDHD traits from the rest of me. I don’t think it would even be possible to point at specific traits and say for sure whether they are resultant from the ND. It’s all me.
Thanks, I appreciate you sharing your experience with me. When you talk about winning the lottery, metaphorically speaking, are there some traits or behaviours you attribute to the ND?
To be open about my motivation for my curiosity, a lot of my professional life I’m supporting ND people. My own NDs are definitely not of a magnitude to be worthy of diagnosis and people are so diverse so I appreciate the opportunity to get someone’s perspective directly.
I’m not the same person but I can definitely attribute some negative symptoms of autism in my life.
The biggest negative symptom and limiting factor for me personally is the overstimulation. I can be perfectly comfortable in an extremely chaotic environment and then suddenly with no warning start perceiving every single tiny detail around me.
Touch. Sound. Smell. Temperature. Air currents. THE BUZZING OF ELECTRICITY FLOWING THROUGH WIRES.
It’s triggered several panic attacks throughout my life. 0/10 would only recommend for use as torture.
Ungh the electricity in wires is killer.
Sometimes it oscillates with my tinnitus, which is super fun…
Then mix that with a brain that MUST process all lines of conversation and various other sensations around it, and you’ve got a recipe for quick overwhelm, and nobody has a clue why I’m suddenly edgy af.
Thanks for sharing that, the physiological stuff seems to be the hardest to live with, as it’s impossible to ignore or control.
For me I benefit greatly from being able to deeply immerse myself in a topic and retain information to an absurd degree if I am interested in that topic. I can recall incredibly minute “fun facts” about a variety of my interests that I may not have been exposed to for some time. And I can integrate the breadth of my knowledge into my problem solving processes.
Its fine to ask, but the answer is “no”. Autism is a blueprint for how the brain gets wired. Its not something a person ‘has’, it’s a defining attribute of consciousness itself - its what a person ‘is’.
If you had a pill that could rewire someone’s brain, it would kill that person and use their meat as spare parts to build a different person.
If you had a pill that could rewire someone’s brain, it would kill that person and use their meat as spare parts to build a different person.
I really like this way of phrasing it. Idk why. It has body horror vibes that I think are fun, but also just feels very accurate.
For me, it’s like, I have a lot of knowledge about computers, because I do a lot with computers.
And I do a lot with computers, because they don’t overstimulate me like going to parties/events/whatever.
I do imagine, there’s other factors involved, too. Like, I’m able to memorize things really well and probably able to think more rationally, which makes me good at computers to begin with, but I’d still have a lot of knowledge about computers and not a lot of knowledge about all the social stuff.
Independently, I also happen to have chronic fatigue+pain. It meant that I spent even more time doing things with computers.
And yeah, that one I’ve thought harder about. What if I do go to the doctor and they make it disappear. Would I become a different person?Probably the same answer. I might lose my hyperfocus and pick up more interests over time, but I’d probably still do a lot with computers. I’ve got hardly any other hobbies now and still far too little time for all my computer side-projects.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned about YouTube is that the most niche topics can gather an audience. I’ve never been interested in the workings of heat pumps, mechanical switches, or car horns. But I look forward to a new drop every week.
But I have no charisma.
You’d be surprised. Genuine interest about a topic can be very contagious. Don’t go out there to make a name for yourself but if you talk about something that you’re deeply passionate about, your audience will find you.
I’d say it’s something you can train
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“oh shit new Technology Connections just dropped!”
Like you said, some “win the lottery”. I think most people would prefer not to have to deal with the difficulties. You can be autistic and good at something or not autistic and good at the same thing.
You can be autistic and good at something or not autistic and good at the same thing.
Let’s not erase the unique characteristics of autism. People with autism can often achieve a higher level of mastery or understanding than most people in a specific topic, or can do so with much less effort. I’m not saying there aren’t challenges, but there are definitely also benefits for some of us.
They are not erasing anything. YOU are assuming autistic people automatically get gifts. Stop it. Stop that shit right now.
Your attitude is EXACTLY what is wrong with the show, and the EXACT thing the main post is making fun of. Stop it. Even if SOME still have wonderful abilities, you are distinctly and exactly doing the wrong thing to say, “butbutbut some of us are smarter than average!”.
Yea. You know who ELSE also has a chance to be smarter than average? LITERALLY EVERYBODY!!
I didn’t say automatically. I said it’s true for some of us. I fully acknowledge that some people with autism get absolutely shafted in terms of the cluster of personality traits and ND symptoms they develop. I’m just saying that the benefits of autism, such as they are, cannot be achieved by an NT brain. Whether or not that is “worth the cost” isn’t for me to say. It depends greatly on rolls of the biological dice.
I’m just saying that the benefits of autism, such as they are, cannot be achieved by an NT brain.
Yeah they can. I don’t know how the likeliness compares, but it’s well within the realm of possibility.
Yes, any by trying to reply in the negative to everyone supporting the mai post, YOU are still directly attempting to contradict the sentiment while not admitting to it.
Stop it. Stop trying to reinforce stereotypes to protect your own feelings. It’s pitiful. Yes, responding in a, “but it’s kinda tru tho” way IS defending the stereotype.
You seem really angry about a pretty innocuous conversation on the internet. All I was saying is that there’s a bit more nuance here than was being suggested. I’m not saying either side of the argument is entirely wrong. Just sharing my personal experience.
I’m not erasing anything.
I stated quite clearly that you can be good at a thing without the difficulties that autism can present for some people. That does not detract from any benefit autism might bestow.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to paint ASD as some kind of desirable condition.
You’re basically saying that “I won the lottery, so everyone else should be fine playing it too”.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to paint ASD as some kind of desirable condition.
Because it’s not a curse, it’s just a cluster of personality traits. I certainly wouldn’t take a pill that would “cure” my autism if one was available to me. Sure some traits can make it harder to integrate into society, but some of them can also confer benefits which I’m asserting are not achievable without also being neurodivergent.
It sounds to me like what you’re arguing is that ND confers challenges but doesn’t confer any benefits that cannot also be achieved without being neurodivergent. I would disagree. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. If so, I apologize.
I don’t really think you’re reading what I’m saying. You have an incredibly narrow view of ASD that seems to revolve entirely around your more fortunate outcome. I mean, good for you, I’m glad it’s worked out for you and where you fall on the spectrum has conveyed more benefit than any negatives.
I will counter-argue that your position on ND implies it offers more benefits than challenges. I strongly disagree with this and refer back to the “lottery” comment. You won. There are plenty of losers. Don’t suggest it’s a game worth playing unless you can prove that everyone with ASD is a winner. I sincerely doubt you can.
I never claimed otherwise. I never claimed the benefits outweigh the challenges. It is absolutely a case-by-case thing.
But also, I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say, as nobody really has a choice whether or not they “play the game”
Is it super-intelligence or just the natural desire to just consume stuff about a topic?
I don’t have Autism, but I do have ADHD and I am just gifted with an innate curiosity to learn new things which can seem like I’m intelligent, but honestly I have no control over it. I could spend a week learning about how the brain works and it will be all consuming, then all of a sudden I have zero interest in it.
This means I have a rudimentary understanding of so many topics, but rarely will I master any one of them.
I once spent a week researching the tumble of bullets fired from American rifles during the Vietnam war and the resultant bullet wounds. Why? Because someone said in a group setting “the M16 was introduced during the Korean war, not 'Nam.”
By the way, make sure not to get shot by a 'Nam era M16 firing 5.56mm, as you’ll never get all the bullet fragments out.
One time in a company night out, the boss announced that anyone who split his arrow (we were doing archery and drinking for fun) with their own arrow, robin hood style, would get a raise.
So I did it. I remember my thought process is “Oh this will be fun I’ll blow his mind with this”. I didn’t have a doubt in my mind I was gonna split his arrow with my own.
I have not practiced archery. I had not fired a bow since the 4-5 arrows I fired once in high school, some 20 years prior.
But I knew I was gonna do it, because that’s how my autism works. I didn’t sight or anything. I just put myself into a particular mental state, the one where things go perfect, then willed that arrow into the other arrow, drew and fired in one motion.
My arrow split his arrow in half. He didn’t give the raise, instead pretended to be too drunk and distracted to notice.
But still, I split that fuckin arrow.
So yeah, it does involve some obsession, and that leads to the knowledge But there’s also something different about the autistic nervous system at a low level.
Yeah, for me I think it’s less about “being more intelligent” as a general and more “I learned way more about (X) because I was hyperfixated”. I think that’s where people get mixed up. It’s not a generalized boost to intelligence so much as spending way more time studying something than a normal person would because brain tickle feel good. People only see the result of that
Ehh… thats why we don’t often mention the Autism HUD. Once the neurotypicals find out about it everybody going to start wanting it. Fortunately everyone who uses Lemmy is an Autistic Femboy Linux user.
We should probably keep Lemmy a secret, too.
Identic memory doesn’t require autism and can very well make you seem hyper intelligent when you’re just remembering shit.
Intelligence, to me, is defined as on the fly problem solving and improving. You can’t always remember a solution to a rapidly changing problem.
I think you may mean eidetic
Spell check fails us all, eventually.
If only you had pedantic memory.
They’re called harbulary batteries
That’s true. I pretty much agree with that assessment of intelligence, a high generalist knowledge along with good problems solving skills; though I have to concede that specialist knowledge or other ways of expressing intelligence are valid as well.
I think “intelligence” is definable as “computation that we don’t understand yet”.
Intelligence, to me, is defined as on the fly problem solving and improving.
Nah, that’s genius.
This is why we struggle so much with a definition of intelligence; it’s a complex, multifactorial thing and everyone understands something different in it.
Can I still do a 30-day trial, or…
Yeah. Instead of quirky social deficiencies, it’s horrifying irreconcilable social deficiencies.
- You can just gaslight yourself into liking math, by finding easy to understand material on math, then working yourself up from there, but that requires like Bene Gesserit levels of understanding autism and especially your own autism, and a lot of support from your parents (which is usually the bane of many autistic talents).
- You can still get good at e.g. making stuffed animals, which you can always upgrade to making fursuits to get a lot of money.
Also remember that a lot of these “anti-savant” sentiments originate from autism moms, and they often like to claim most autistic people are like at Chris-chan levels of talent at their special interest/craft.
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According to TV, autism either enables the universe’s developer mode, or makes you proclaim your profession, loudly and repeatedly, when your flaws are pointed out.
I dunno about that. But I’m not so sure, as a software engineer. Btw I’m a software engineer - never really thought about that. As a software engineer and all. Software. Engineer.
I’m specifically referring to this scene from the same show.
Wow. that’s a lot of cringe right there
Yep. The meltdown episode is where the show went completely off the rails.
So it actually was fairly honest autism rep.
“I AM A STURGEON”
I personally love that they fully committed to the love action “Virgin vs GigaChad” bit.
This is Abed erasure
I think Abed has developer mode turned on, given he built a holodeck and has contact with other timelines
I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON!
Hey look its my modern meltdowns but instead of yelling “I am surgeon” its just me sying “fuck off” in the most monotone voice I can pull off.
I mean, those are just the overt ones. Plenty could be midly autistic and you wouldn’t really know.
Y’all didn’t know? Autism turns on debug mode irl.
Problem is, you can’t turn it off. Which is why we’re quick at problem solving, but slow at everything else.
Or something. 🙃
Oh yeah absolutely. The quickest way to get something done is to monkey patch another process instead.
if(goingToGetSomethingDone){
dont();
}
Autism enables the source code HUD, but it only shows each chunk after you figure out the assembly.
We’re quite the little pattern recognizers… but watch out.
My dyslexia lets me see ghosts of old Union soldiers. Coming this fall to CBS
They help you read so you can solve crimes. They don’t provide any insight related to their civil war experience or anything, they’re just like an EA
FUCK I got the “Beat Donkey Kong Country 3 over and over again” Autism instead of the Medical HUD Autism
I thought I gave the game away when I physically moved stuff around the HUD with my hands. These guys just put it in a TV show!
Well I guess I should just come clean here, this is what ADHD super focus looks like too. Complete with transparent windows so we can layer them and see in 3D.
I’m autistic and my mental processing is visual. It’s a lot like that actually.
Ye old “Mind’s Eye” seems to vary person to person rather than correlating with level of neurotypicality. IDK tho, maybe some studies could show the truth.
It’s actually not like this very much, because these things always just show images floating around.
In reality the images are changing constantl, and it’s not images you could capture with a camera. It’s abstract shapes that constantly shift according to rules I’ve programmed in for how they’re allowed to change. As they go through changes they implicitly calculate logic and other mental computations. At the very end if I want to tell someone what I’m thinking, I translate it into words so I can say it.
It’s more like a circuit diagram mixed with a fractal mixed with MC Escher drawings, than others is like images of documents and photos floating around in a screen saver pattern. Like a physical computing machine being simulated in my head.
Is this how people without internal dialogue think, with internal hud
For me, it’s just content, logic. Not like we can represent logic outside of math (which is more like a language to me, exhausting). Images is for remembering scenes.
What show is this?
My daughter used to watch it. I think its The Good Doctor.
The American adaptation of The Good Doctor in particular, which ended recently. I know both those bits of knowledge largely against my will.
The Good Doctor, a show about a surgeon who is fighting his Hollywood Autism, complete with all the stereotypes, and trying to get through life and career at a hospital. Plays very hard into the “idiot savant” trope.
It seems like an ok show from the bit of season 1 I watched, but then I had an Autistic kid and learned I was Autistic myself and had a deep dive into Autism life… And yeah it does a pretty poor representation of it and I don’t think I would want to go back to that show by this point.
My ADHD version very similar to that.
Although, on mine, if you actually read any of it, none of it’s even remotely related to what I’m trying to figure out. It looks like it is but this is a lie.
Its not even like I’m thinking of lots of different things. Its just junk.
What HUD?
The one that pops up when you’re talking to someone: the floating translucent panel with dialog choices.
… Do you not have one of those?
Yeah in the Sims
Heads up display. Like when a videogame shows you your HP and quest markers
