Thanks Joe Biden for approves the torture of Palestinians and uses it to launder rape hoaxes. No evidence? No problem! Just torture a Palestinian and put it on the Youtube channel!

  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
    1127·
    4 months ago

    That’s a lot of assumptions and inaccuracy.

    Nice collage, but it says likely tortured and it’s weird that you don’t think war crimes like rape happen.

    I agree torture of enemy combatants by the IDF is likely, but you should try to avoid reporting on things that aren’t established fact yet.

    You get internet points, but you lose credibility

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
      217·
      4 months ago

      Fact 1: Palestinians are tortured into false confessions

      Fact 2: Even the UN report specifically refers to this case and deems it non credible because of israel using torture on other hostages to extract false confessions. Also corroborated by Human Rights Watch, BtSelem and other organisations

      Fact 3: Having the best “rape evidence” being confessions under torture because there is zero actual tangible evidence is not a great look for the credibility of rape claims.

      • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
        1016·
        4 months ago

        1. rape is a very common atrocity in war.

        2. The March 4th UN report based on photos, video footage and interviews, states that there are “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7th October attacks, including rape and gang rape”.

        3. All of your “facts” here are assumptions and likelihoods.

        Be responsible with your posts and make it clear that you are spreading unconfirmed opinions and assumptions rather than facts.

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            714·
            4 months ago

            Funny you haven’t commented on polynomials.

            Oh, has nobody asked you about that yet?

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
          810·
          4 months ago

          There is zero photo or video evidence of rape. In fact there is no evidence. You are just lying right now.

          Israel says Hamas weaponised rape. Does the evidence add up?

          The report also confirmed Israeli authorities were unable to provide much of the evidence that political leaders had insisted existed. In all the Hamas video footage Patten’s team had watched and all the photographs they had seen, there were no depictions of rape. We hired a leading Israeli dark-web researcher to look for evidence of those images, including footage deleted from public sources. None could be found…

          And

          On a post about America using confessions extracted under torture as “evidence” you find it necessary to defend israel. The agenda is rather obvious.

          If there was any real evidence then there wouldn’t be a need to present us with fraudulent forced torture confessions,

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            108·
            4 months ago

            You’re making things up again.

            I never claimed there was photo or video evidence of rape. The UN claimed that.

            I’m not defending Israel.

            I’m clarifying your inaccuracies and out-of-context implications.

            Here are the facts:

            1. Rape is an extremely common war atrocity.

            2. a UN report has stated that from photographic, video and interview evidence, rape was likely committed by Hamas.

            • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
              71·
              4 months ago

              I don’t at all disagree with your main conclusions, but some factual nitpicks:

              The UN didn’t claim there was photo or video of rape actually happening. The whole thing is sort of a red herring, an artful construction to ask a different question other than “was there rape?” in order that the answer can be no.

              UN report on Sexual violence during the October 7th attack

              UN report on war crimes in general during the conflict, of which sexual violence by both Hamas and the IDF forms a part

              A lot of the UN’s reports actually don’t weigh in on the question of whether the rape that was committed on October 7th was done by Hamas fighters or by an associated body of Palestinians that accompanied them. In a lot of cases there was no way to tell what the affiliation of the man involved in any given instance was, although he was obviously part of the general body of the attack, and so they simply stuck to saying, rape happened.

              Like I say, no real disagreement with your main point, just some nitpicks. Linkerbaan has for whatever reason picked the one pro Palestinian thing he could go to bat for that makes him look like the monster, and where the actual evidence makes the Palestinian side into the bad guys. It’s weird. There is not a shortage of things to bring up that make the Israelis the bad guys.

              • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
                32·
                4 months ago

                You are conflating evidence with undeniable proof.

                There is lots of evidence of rape.

                There’s no undeniable proof of rape

                The UN collected and checked a lot of evidence.

                From thousands of pictures, hundreds of videos and about three dozen witness testimonies submitted or provided as evidence , the panel concluded there are “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7th October attacks, including rape and gang rape”

                • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
                  1·
                  4 months ago

                  Dude I am 100% on your side on all of that. If anything I was saying sounded like I was saying rape didn’t happen, that wasn’t the intent. Just factual nitpicks about details of what the report itself did and didn’t conclude.

                  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
                    22·
                    4 months ago

                    I have no problem with nitpicks, only accuracy.

                    You got your nitpick wrong.

                    I wrote

                    " I never claimed there was photo or video evidence of rape. The UN claimed that."

                    You wrote

                    " The UN didn’t claim there was photo or video of rape actually happening".

                    You are responding to a claim that never occurred .

                    You are arguing against the claim that the UN has photo or video of rape actually happening, but nobody made that claim in the first place.

                    Again, you’re conflating evidence with undeniable proof.

                    The UN collected and checked evidence, then concluded there are “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7th October attacks, including rape and gang rape”.

                    Your nitpicks, based on the assumption that somewhere there is a claim of the UN having video or photo proof of rape, are based on either a misunderstanding of the quoted statement or a misunderstanding of my comments.

                    Which, if I can add, is totally fine. I make mistakes all the time.

                    I just figured, if we’re nitpicking, might as well do it right.

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
              38·
              4 months ago

              Rape is an extremely common war atrocity indeed. So it’s great Hamas didn’t do it.

              So why is it so hard to find evidence of Hamas doing it but not hard to find israel doing it?

              The UN has stated they have no photographic or video evidence. They have a few rando interviews, in fact they needed new ones because the old ones turned out to be fake.

              Could it be that you just want it to be true? That you cannot imagine that the US state has been lying to you for over 8 months? That the rape hoax is needed to manufacture consent for israel committing Genocide just like we lied about WMD’s in Iraq?

              • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
                64·
                4 months ago

                Your rhetorical questions are based on baseless assumptions inaccuracies as well.

                If you have questions, ask them.

                Right now you’re just wallowing in your self-dug abyss of misrepresentation.

                According to the UN, “there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery”.

                Go ahead. Ask real questions.

                • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
                  34·
                  4 months ago

                  Strange why does the UN report with an investigative mandate which came after your report of a person with no legal authority claim there is no evidence of rape then?

                  Maybe you should link the UN the Patten report. Or do you think they took it into consideration and found it unreliable?

                  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
                    54·
                    4 months ago

                    I’m sure you meant to write something understandable, but it came out as gobbledygook.

                    Can you try to fix your comments and I’ll check back?

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
      33·
      4 months ago

      but you lose credibility

      No, I think Linkerbaan’s credibility is just fine.

      Not so sure about someone who assumes that Israel cares whether the people they are torturing even qualify as “combatants,” though…

      • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
        34·
        4 months ago

        It’s not very surprising that you, making assumptions and crying about your own straw men rather than asking direct questions, thinks that linkerbaan, reveling in their ignorance, has credibility.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
          33·
          4 months ago

          Oh look… another liberal desperate to not confront the truth about your favorite white supremacist settler-colonialist project - I’ll just place your opinion in the same circular folder as the rest of the hive-mind’s, okay?

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            23·
            4 months ago

            Scurry away to the listless embrace of ignorance and bias.

            Otherwise, you’ll have to shiver think for yourself or shudder read…

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
              33·
              4 months ago

              You are free to bring it on any time you feel like, liberal - but I will treat your canned excuses and apologetics no differently than those of the thousand that came before you.