Hexbear comes here to be the debate bros they try so hard to dunk on. They are dying looking for just one little morsel of dunk. Not a good showing, not a leftist unity moment lmao
this meme is explicitly anti-left unity, as is the OP
I think the meme is a not-so-great way to address a dark topic.
But what I was talking about was the behavior of hexbear users in response that is also not cool.
But also I was just kinda fuckin around being entertained by the arguing and trying not to take it too seriously. I’m not here to take a strong stance. People seem to wanna make me take one but I’m gunna keep trying not to give a shit.
“I was just doing a bit, and you can tell how bothsides I am by how good the bit landed”
I’m not doing a bit, I’m just not trying to take this thread seriously.
Bothsides in the context of arguing about leftist unity feels like a different thing entirely, but I’m also more trying to be “neither side” if that means anything idk I’m tired.
I just want productive progress towards the end of capitalism as soon as possible. In the meantime I’m watching all the anticapitalists find reasons to hate each other forever.
The post exclusively attacks Hexbear’s ideological “left unity” position so it’s kinda fair game for people from that position to want to say something in its defence.
The people doing marxist sectarianism instead of defending left unity are being dummies though.
Yes to the first part. Although, I’ll take this moment to say: hexbear’s left unity could use a tune up
I’m just trying to talk about the latter behavior you described, which is kindof a symptom of what I mentioned
Yeah I agree.
I think the issue here is that since left unity only has enforcement onsite, some are baited into sectarian arguments offsite.
There’s also the issue that this is specifically posing left-unity as a marxist trick.
Some of us are also just don’t believe the left is compatible with autocratic simps. I’ve tried to find common ground with hexbears and just don’t have the time. It’s hard to take their “left unity” seriously when I just get banned for questioning orthodoxy.
Me: “Maybe the left should stop making the same mistakes over and over again.”
Hexbears: Ok shitlib.
Much unity.
This. I’m not remotely interested in changing out one master for another. Autocracy is not leftist.
The people doing marxist sectarianism instead of defending left unity are being dummies though.
I mean you can’t expect marxists to not critique anarchists? Left unity, yeah we can do that, but not arguing about everything with everyone? Nah.
Depends. There’s a line it crosses from maintaining left unity while doing critique versus becoming sectarianism, and it’s not useful when it is.
What could be more left unity than MLs and anarchists coming together to embarass liberals?
I am once again asking the mods for a new site headline
not a leftist unity moment l
You can’t be a fucker like OP and then complain about the lack of unity in response
Oh no, there is unity. From the he bear users that came in as a brigade to drive the discussion out of the instance’s users. There’s more hexbear coments than any other instance what the fuck.
For real. It’s been a wild day :D
Is it worth? I don’t get what’s going on with americans. Here we have both Anarchists and Communists doing stuff together ALL THE TIME. Even Trots sometimes are collaborative.
I really admire a lot of stuff you do, and I try to replicate in order to help those who can’t read english. But it can’t be healthy to start all this argument online with people calling each other terrible names.
Man, I just posted a meme. I didn’t expect the whole hexbear red army to brigade me.
yeah, for me it is sad.
I’m not complaining, I’m entertained.
And mostly using that language was me trying to reference the meme, try to bring it all full circle.
Would you say you’re actually laughing?
I don’t get the bit so I’m not gunna answer
Instead I’ll ask a question
What?
They’re starving, man
You criticize Hexbear for dunks, but also criticize them for responding at length with citations.
parentiquote.txt
Death to America
Wait I didn’t mean to criticize citations I love citations mb.
What did I say I’ll edit it
Hexbear comes here to be the debate bros they try so hard to dunk on.
What sort of behavior are you critiquing here?
Personally I think “debate bro” stuff is more arguing for the sake of arguing/bending over backwards to defend even trivial or weak points, maybe with a sprinkling of going back-and-forth long after it becomes clear you’re at an impasse. I don’t see a lot of that here anyway.
It involves a wide variety of behaviors, including the stuff you said, but primarily the first thing that comes to mind for me is the behaviour of trying to force/coerce people to engage in debates/discussions that they don’t want to have or are otherwise unprepared to have, usually on the bad-faith preposition that anyone who is unwilling to participate in said debate/discussion must only be unwilling for the reason of being wrong.
debates/discussions that they don’t want to have or are otherwise unprepared to have
I see your point, but I think this is seriously undermined when you have someone like OP who is willing to post all day about this, and occasionally willing to dip their toes into trying to raise real points, but then throws up their hands and says “hey it’s just a
jokememe” whenever they’re in a tough spot.Eh, IMO it was more like they attempted to engage in response, and then tapped out when it went over their head. Or maybe they just got busy IRL.
It doesn’t seem good to me to try and rationalize shitty behavior just because of a reason someone might deserve it.
Also tho, if you wanna call them a lib and consider them officially dunked, you don’t need a certain response from them for it to work, you can just decide that.
Or maybe they just got busy IRL
Looks like they’ve been posting pretty hard in this thread for at least 6-7 hours, often multiple paragraphs at a time.
It doesn’t seem good to me to try and rationalize shitty behavior just because of a reason someone might deserve it.
It’s not shitty behavior to make a political response to a political meme, or to point out when someone isn’t having a good faith conversation.
broooo come on I thought we were cool
I’m not trying to make enemies, or say hexbear is as bad as people make it out to be
This thread is just no good
I mean communists are not well known for agreeing on things and not arguing about stuff.
I’m not saying I think this is the end of leftism as we know it or anything. I’m just appreciating the bar fight I guess.
It hasn’t been a friendly thread.
If OP had the tiniest scrap of good faith in their being, things would have gone differently
I mean they just shared a meme from an instance you aren’t federated with and quickly had like 20 people trying to demand complex conversations about history with them.
A lot of the complaints directed at them would be better served directed at whoever made the meme.
Maybe don’t share history memes you don’t even remotely understand that vilify people whose perspective you don’t remotely understand? Dude has received some real softball questions and whiffed.
But OP doesn’t give a shit, his ideology is “Dae tabkies bad” and the actual historical claims are secondary.
Straight up misgendering half the posters lol
Please don’t. I take that seriously and it is obtuse to pretend you don’t know the phrase “debate bro”. It was a cultural reference, and I have no intention at any point of misgendering anyone.
Use debate nerd instead in cases where you don’t want to gender people.
Debate pervert is also great
“debatenerd” I’m picking this up! But in my defense, I was saying “debate me bro”, as in, someone who says “debate me, bro”
So, there is this cool thing you can do called making memes gender neutral instead of calling trans women bros.
Since you take misgendering extremely seriously, I thought you should know about this neat trick.
This is a meme I am referencing after seeing it on hexbear. Specifically imitating their language to make a point. Maybe we should talk to them about it too. I obviously hadn’t considered the full implications, and will not use that phrase anymore, for sure.
You may also have seen “debatelord”
I don’t remember seeing that specifically, I might have, but I did specifically see the other several times.
I tend to use the term “debate pervert”
Gender is incompatible with left unity, therefore no they didn’t
gotta make sure your insults are inclusive or something, I guess
“Well, that post from yesterday has probably cooled off by now, it was fun while it laste-”
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spoiler
It’s a good day to be a communist online
Ukraine Free Territory
Literally bandit kingdom under an absolute leader
Stalin vs Spanish Leftists
The USSR was the only nation to provide any support to the Republic, and it was the anarchists that fucked up by being unable to organize any kind of national army and just letting the fascists roll up their ‘independent’ cities one by one. Saying “it was Stalin’s fault” is the anarchist stab-in-the-back myth.
Mao
I’ve never heard of the ‘Manchurian communes’ and neither has wikipedia (which would never miss the chance to play up a supposed communist atrocity) and ah yes, that famous leftist tendency “intellectuals”. Not saying the Cultural Revolution was correct, but you also can’t just blame one person for it.
Hungarian Worker’s Councils
A fascist counterrevolution, Hungary was an Axis power and it was a mere eleven years after WW2 - for “”“worker’s councils”“” they sure lynched a lot of Jewish people! Read this.
Futhermore, did even a single one of these leaders claim to support an abstract “left unity”? Lenin sure didn’t:
“Unity is a great thing and a great slogan. But what the workers’ cause needs is the unity of Marxists, not unity between Marxists, and opponents and distorters of Marxism.”
Nor did all the millions and millions of workers who supported each of these leaders. How unfathomably arrogant to think that the millions of committed revolutionaries that worked tirelessly to build socialism in these places were too fucking stupid to see they were working for the ‘wrong’ ideology, that they should have rejected their leadership organization and just slotted in your preferred coterie of “libertarian socialists & anarchists” and that would have simply solved all their murderous authoritarian ways. A nice horizontal, non-hierarchical, non-coercive network of free-organizing collectives would definitely have stood up in the face of the Wehrmacht, wouldn’t it!
Now, ironically the “tankie” instances in this federation actually have rules about sectarianism so I wouldn’t post this on there, but I have no qualms saying it here (you can feel free to ban me though, if you want to indulge in the ultimate irony). So I can say that I am sectarian, because revolution is a problem that has a correct answer - there’s the answer that saved hundreds of millions of lives from fascism, and then there’s the ‘answer’ that lets online “”“leftists”“” living eighty years after the fact feel smugly superior to the people who actually fought and bled for a better world. Further reading on this matter:
- “Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder - Lenin
- A Critical Read of Animal Farm - Jones Manoel
- Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism - Michael Parenti (<- especially this)
Edit: I was kinda pissed off when I wrote this so my dismissals of those points were definitely sloppy - though in hindsight with this guy “more nuance” would probably have been a waste - but I absolutely can’t tolerate such ignorant attacks against the projects that actually came the closest to human emancipation anywhere in history. Regardless, I don’t want any anarchist comrades to feel like I’m attacking them, and although I obviously believe MLism (and the collected work of its offshoot branches) is the best basis for the theory and practice of revolution, the good work of anarchist groups that were able to keep fighting in the imperial core when Marxist groups were stamped out can’t be ignored. If you punched a fascist then you’re a comrade of mine.
“Nor did all the millions and millions of workers who supported each of these leaders. How unfathomably arrogant to think that the millions of committed revolutionaries that worked tirelessly to build socialism in these places were too fucking stupid to see they were working for the ‘wrong’ ideology, that they should have rejected their leadership organization and just slotted in your preferred coterie of “libertarian socialists & anarchists” and that would have simply solved all their murderous authoritarian ways. A nice horizontal, non-hierarchical, non-coercive network of free-organizing collectives would definitely have stood up in the face of the Wehrmacht, wouldn’t it!“
Well fucking said Comrade. This part right here is the thing that always clinches it for me. Whatever can be said in anarchisms favor as an ideology, it all dissolves once the question is asked “how does Anarchism defend itself from a fascist state?”
I don’t have a single issue with anarchists that have the humility and intellectual honesty to accept the clear and obvious shortcomings of Anarchism in regards to revolutionary defense. In fact I admire them for wanting to reconcile those contradictions. It’s not an easy task and that’s what accounts for their rarity more than anything else IMO.
If you call yourself an Anarchist because you have aversion to hierarchy, violence, and big books, you’re just a child, or more likely, an American with the political understanding of a child.
Fucking heroic post o7
I’ve never heard of the ‘Manchurian communes’ and neither has wikipedia…
I think they might be referring to these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People's_Association_in_Manchuria https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/francesco-dalessandro-the-forgotten-anarchist-commune-in-manchuria
I don’t have enough intimate knowledge to be able to comment though, apart from my natural suspicion that once again, as usual, the anarchists will paint their lack of political efficacy as moral virtue and communist nefariousness, though I’m happy to be corrected.
Wait, did they seriously confuse Chinese and Korean? I guess I shouldn’t have expect much from a comic that depicts Mao with slanty eyes.
i mean it was located in Manchuria if you want to be charitable, but it was fuckall to do with Mao in any case–he was busy getting encircled by the nationalists at the time
You’d be opening an can of ethnic worms over the technical historical ownership of North-East China / Manchuria / Dergi Ilan Golo / (the northern part of ) Goguryeo (who’s legacy is claimed by South Korea to further justify shitting on China because they got little dog syndrome)
Online “leftist” losers love to pretend that they can discard the past in favor of their stupid orientalist gamer view of politics and act like they’ve done something
Marxist Leninists stay winning
and ah yes, that famous leftist tendency “intellectuals”. Not saying the Cultural Revolution was correct, but you also can’t just blame one person for it.
I would assume this is referring to the aftermath of the Hundred Flowers Campaign, but those intellectuals were pretty much all rightists
I’m assuming.you’re just ignorant of Makhno, and not intentionally spouting century old propaganda but here. From the article "Makhno’s anarchism, however, was not confined to verbal propaganda, important though this was to win new adherents. On the contrary, Makhno was a man of action who, even while occupied with military campaigns, sought to put his anarchist theories into practice. His first act on entering a town – after throwing open the prisons – was to dispel any impression that he had come to introduce a new form of political rule. Announcements were posted informing the inhabitants that they were now free to organize their lives as they saw fit, that his Insurgent Army would not “dictate to them or order them to do anything.” Free speech, press, and assembly were proclaimed, although Makhno would not countenance organizations that sought to impose political authority, and he accordingly dissolved the Bolshevik revolutionary committees, instructing their members to “take up some honest trade.'” Does that sound like a bandit king?
The USSR absolutely betrayed the Spanish Anarchists, this isn’t controversial at all. Here’s a well sourced thread from someone who wrote a research paper on the topic breaking it down.
I don’t know enough about Hungary to have an opinion on the matter and can’t be bothered to do all the reading for it right now. Based on your characterizations of previous libertarian left movements I’m going to assume you’re full of shit though.
Hard agree on “left unity”. Authoritarians and libertarians shouldn’t waste their time on trying to get along, it’s counter productive.
Further reading/listening for anyone interested:
The State is Counter Revolutionary is a theory and history series covering the Russian and Chinese revolutions. The Maoist one may be of particular interest to you.
Alexander Berkman, The Bolshevik Myth
Authoritarians and libertarians
I don’t give a shit what you say, if your politics is “authoritarian bad and libertarian good” you’re a fucking idiot.
Oh look, a leftist “enlightened centrist”. Please, provide us your grand left unifying theory that will bring about peace and prosperity for two mutually exclusive schools of thought. Authoritarians and libertarians got lumped together a long time ago and it’s been made abundantly clear that that was a mistake. We should stop trying to force it. It’s counterproductive
Who said I was pro-left unity? Im a Marxist Leninist. Did the name not say “stalinism” loudly enough?
although ill take a real anarchist to work side by side with over your illiterate ass any day. Your ilk are charlatans and failures, always have been, always will be. Stop wasting our time with your illiteracy.
So you’re a Marist lenninist who’s against left unity and thinks that people who are either only pro authoritarian or pro libertarian are fucking idiots? Do I need to spell that out more or are you aware of how stupid you sound right now? Are you sure I’m the illiterate one in this exchange?
bitch I actually read theory, i don’t ascribe to “authoritarian” or “libertarian” as political movements. Its not a word used by any Marxist movement nor theorist that has actually accomplished something besides never getting past local party level.
you don’t even understand the world well enough to be mad at me properly. Do I have to spell it out for you or do you want to continue to roll in the mud with your ignorant pig friends?
Stay mad. Your politics are shit and no amount of theory is going to change the oppressive nature of the world you want to create. Dress up the attrocities your ideology represents in all the $5 words you want. It won’t change the fact that at the end of the day you’ll be another reactionary supporting a new generation of bourgeois pigs ruining life for the rest of us. I read state and revolution too, it was mid. Find a different Russian dipshit to base your life around, there’s better ones out there.
They are saying the lense of authoritarian/libertarian as a system of values is stupid
Yes, I spoke in anger and I don’t really know that much about Makhno, I also don’t care because he’s an irrelevant footnote. The proletarian masses spoke, they chose who to give their energy and strength to and their choice was the Bolsheviks. Those Bolsheviks safeguarded the Soviet people against the capitalists literally turning out the bowels of hell upon them. Without the Red Army, the genocidal colonial expedition of Nazi Germany would have exterminated every single person between Ukraine and Siberia. And the Red Army was ONLY built through the absolutely tireless work of millions upon millions of workers building socialist industry under the guidance of the Communist Party. Communist Parties! Each region had its own branch! Each nation had its representation guaranteed! Soviet linguists helped invent alphabets for languages that had never been written down before, so they could record their oral histories and partake in the creation of culture on an equal basis with other nations! Truly the actions of a totalitarian dictatorship.
Ah, but it’s much easier to talk about “authoritarians and libertarians” and read the opinions of a bunch of white westerners who know better, than read the words of the people who built socialism under constant siege from the world empire. Hypocritically (?), I’m not interested in reading anything you have to link because I’ve already passed through the phase of anarchism I had before stumbling across The State and Revolution. I’m pressed because I used to be you until I got schooled, and had the humility and intellectual honesty to actually try and learn more. So go and read Blackshirts and Reds, S&R, Losurdo’s Stalin, Vijay Prashad’s Red Star Over the Third World and Washington Bullets and then come back and tell me whether or not you followed my footsteps or just bounced off back into “western-left” arrogance.
Makhno
Imagine stanning a guy who armed and trained pogromists on an oopsie, and then in exile didn’t have the spine to support a much better anarchist seeking to kill a notorious leader of pogroms. Makhnovists are people who look at Trotsky and say “we need someone even less dignified, someone who accomplished still less and was spiteful and shit-flinging to even more people” and old Nestor comes to their rescue. Go follow his example and publish a newspaper that no one reads except to disparage it while alienating every leftist in your life even despite having the common enemy of the boogeyman tankies, and then die alone.
So correcting a patently false characterization = stanning makhno? K lol. Are you trying to out trivia me or something? Keep spouting whatever little bits and pieces of history you’ve managed to warp to fit your own preconceptions and leave the real conversation for people who don’t need to have their politics spoonfed to them from a bunch of state capitalist dictators that have been dead for decades
I’ve only referenced things that Makhnovists agree to, it’s hardly the Bolshevik history of him. You can be extremely charitable in sourcing and still come to the conclusion that Makhno was mainly pathetic and harmful (though platformism is interesting). I also think that enabling actual genocide is a little more than “trivia”, but it’s not owning the tankies, so I can see why you would be uninterested in it.
Makhno did, in reaction to a rather brutal set of evidence that you can’t just toss out arms and training everywhere and tell people to sort themselves out, fight at least some of the fascists he equipped and made a more pointed effort of helping the surviving Jewish people with community defense, but the underlying problem of him overwhelmingly serving to spread violent chaos in a state that had already been war-torn twice over remained, and that’s part of the “banditry” accusation.
freedom under Makhno has been overstated.
https://isreview.org/issues/53/makhno/
click here to expand, it's a long excerpt
When occupying cities or towns, Makhno’s troops would post notices on walls that read:
This Army does not serve any political party, any power, any dictatorship. On the contrary, it seeks to free the region of all political power, of all dictatorship. It strives to protect the freedom of action, the free life of the workers against all exploitation and domination. The Makhno Army does not therefore represent any authority. It will not subject anyone to any obligation whatsoever. Its role is confined to defending the freedom of the workers. The freedom of the peasants and the workers belongs to themselves, and should not suffer any restriction.61
But left in control of territory that they wanted to secure, the Makhnovists ended up forming what most would call a state. The Makhnovists set monetary policy.62 They regulated the press.63 They redistributed land according to specific laws they passed. They organized regional legislative conferences.64 They controlled armed detachments to enforce their policies.65 To combat epidemics, they promulgated mandatory standards of cleanliness for the public health.66 Except for the Makhnovists, parties were banned from organizing for election to regional bodies. They banned authority with which they disagreed to “prevent those hostile to our political ideas from establishing themselves.”67 They delegated broad authority to a “Regional Military-Revolutionary Council of Peasants, Workers and Insurgents.” The Makhnovists used their military authority to suppress rival political ideas and organizations.68 The anarchist historian Paul Avrich notes, “the Military-Revolutionary Council, acting in conjunction with the Regional Congresses and the local soviets, in effect formed a loose-knit government in the territory surrounding Guliai-Pole.”69
[…] skipping a paragraph and a quote for brevity
Anarchist attacks on the Bolsheviks’ civil war policies often focus on the severe military discipline, conscription, grain requisitioning, and creation of a secret police. Yet, under the same conditions of civil war, Makhno’s army adopted all these measures, albeit with different names.
military discipline and conscription:In his army, Makhno claimed that units had the right to elect their commanders. However, he retained veto power over any decisions.71 He increasingly relied on a close group of friends for his senior command.72 As Darch notes, “Although some of Makhno’s aides attempted to introduce more conventional structures into the army, [Makhno]’s control remained absolute, arbitrary and impulsive.”73 One regiment found it necessary to pass a resolution that “all orders must be obeyed provided that the commanding officer was sober at the time of giving it.”74 As the war went on, his forces moved from voting on their orders to carrying out executions ordered by Makhno to enforce discipline.75
The pressures of war forced Makhno to move to compulsory military service, a far cry from the free association of individuals extolled in anarchist theory. Tellingly, all the anarchist histories call it a “voluntary” mobilization (complete with quotation marks).76 Historian David Footman describes the linguistic back-flips:
Accordingly, at Makhno’s insistence, the second Congress passed a resolution in favor of “general, voluntary and egalitarian mobilization.” The orthodox Anarchist line, expressed at an Anarchist gathering of this period, was that “no compulsory army…can be regarded as a true defender of the social revolution,” and debate ranged round the issue as to whether enlistment could be described as “voluntary” (whatever the feelings of individuals) if it took place as the result of a resolution voluntarily passed by representatives of the community as a whole.77
Just in case people did not understand the meaning of “voluntary,” the Makhnovists issued a clarifying bulletin:
Some groups have understood voluntary mobilization as mobilization only for those who wish to enter the Insurrectionary Army, and that anyone who for any reason wishes to stay at home is not liable…. This is not correct…. The voluntary mobilization has been called because the peasants, workers and insurgents themselves decided to mobilize themselves without awaiting the arrival of instructions from the central authorities.78
The Makhnovists needed conscription for the same reason the Bolsheviks did: the bulk of the peasantry was sick of fighting. The difference between the two is that the Bolsheviks had a political outlook that saw conscription as part of a transitional period with the future depending on world revolution, when the productive power of humanity first unleashed by capitalism could be brought to bear on all spheres of life, in the interest of the vast majority. The peasants of Russia and the Ukraine were still using wooden ploughs and harvesting by hand. They stood to gain immensely from an increase in both productivity and leisure time. In contrast, Makhno had no similar perspective and had no generalized plan or vision for the future.
food requisitioning:An army needs to eat. As they moved through the Ukraine, locals would point out the kulaks who would “agree” to provide food.79 Despite orders to the contrary, Makhnovists would loot town after town, adding to the workers’ misery. One witness recalled:
Food supply was primitive, on the traditional insurgent pattern: the bratishki—the Makhnovists’ name for each other—would scatter to the peasant huts on entering a village, and eat what God sent; there was thus no shortage, although plundering and thoughtless damage to peasant stock did occur; I saw them shoot peasant cattle for fun more than once, amid the howls of women and children.80
From their earliest days, they took the equipment they needed from those who had it.81 As they passed through towns and villages, they required the populace to quarter them.82
secret police:While condemning the Soviet Cheka as an authoritarian betrayal, Makhno created two secret police forces that carried out numerous acts of terror.83 After a battle in one village, they shot a villager suspected of treachery with no trial. They summarily executed many of their prisoners of war.84 Their secret police were tasked with getting rid of “opponents within or outwith [sic] the movement.”85 Their activities led to one anarchist Congress asking Makhno to explain his activities:
It has been reported to us that there exists in the army a counter-espionage service which engages in arbitrary and uncontrolled actions, of which some are very serious, rather like the Bolshevik Cheka. Searches, arrests, even torture and executions are reported.86
This is an excerpt from a longer article. I added the three headings for readability
turns out that, regardless of ideology, the material situation of a revolution drives how groups act
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Literally bandit kingdom under an absolute leader
Classic imperialist shite of “spreading freedom” no better than any other imperialist. DOobetter.
The USSR was the only nation to provide any support to the Republic, and it was the anarchists that fucked up by being unable to organize any kind of national army and just letting the fascists roll up their ‘independent’ cities one by one. Saying “it was Stalin’s fault” is the anarchist stab-in-the-back myth.
You can lie to yourselves all you want. Anarchists remember the backstabbing very well and the real reason why they couldn;t fight back efficiently. I’m not here to discuss with tankies though. Plenty has been written about this stalinist revisionism already.
A fascist counterrevolution, Hungary was an Axis power and it was a mere eleven years after WW2 - for “”“worker’s councils”“” they sure lynched a lot of Jewish people! Read this.
Ah yes, everything USSR wanted to conquer or quiesce is “counterevolution”. Kronstadt too. Same exact bullshit every imperialist nation cooked up to invade and take over. Y’all ain’t foolin’ anyone you know.
So I can say that I am sectarian, because revolution is a problem that has a correct answer - there’s the answer that saved hundreds of millions of lives from fascism,
Lol, where? Show me one ML nation which is not totalitarian right now, or didn’t fall back into capitalism and fascism as soon as it inevitably collapsed from the mortally defective ideology of leninism.
You can lie to yourselves all you want. Anarchists remember the backstabbing very well and the real reason why they couldn;t fight back efficiently. I’m not here to discuss with tankies though. Plenty has been written about this stalinist revisionism already.
My dude, the vast majority of Republican tanks were provided by the Soviet Union. Let’s take a look at the Wikipedia article about tanks in the Spanish Civil War shall we: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tanks_in_the_Spanish_Civil_War#Tanks_supplied_by_foreign_powers
Locally produced tanks: 24-32
Soviet tanks: 331
French/Polish tanks: 64
Paraguayan tanks: 1
So out of the 420-428 tanks deployed by the Republicans, more than 75% came from the Soviet Union. This is not “backstabbing.” If the Republicans didn’t want the Soviet Union to “interfere” with their civil war, they could have fun with their 89 tanks versus the Francoists’ 280 tanks. Yes, when you accept material aid from another country, that country has a say in the trajectory of your political project. That’s literally how all aid works. The Soviet Union was not a charity. If the Republicans did not want the Soviet Union to interfere with their political project, they could’ve just rejected the material aid. But to accept the substantial material aid and then cry about Soviet interference is called being ungracious. It’s called biting the hand that feeds you.
So out of the 420-428 tanks deployed by the Republicans, more than 75% came from the Soviet Union.
Stop the fight!
I haven’t even gone over how some of the colonized Moroccans sided with the Francoists while none of them sided with the Republicans. You would think that the side with the socialists and anarchists would be on board with decolonization, but I guess it’s horizontally organized society for white people, brutal colonial regime for brown people. The white people can own the means of production while the brown people can labor with them.
this is a ridiculous mischaracterization, the Moroccans didn’t ‘side’ with Franco, the only Moroccans left with guns were the comprador regiments after 7 years of slaughtering the independence movement. it was still militarized and patrolled by those fuckers. You wanna talk about Popular Fronts being pro-colonial, look at France’s not supporting decolonization, the Spanish one had no grasp or opportunity. if they’d somehow dropped some rifles into Morocco, if the people had the spirit to rise up at all the French would’ve bombed them to keep it from getting into their bit of Morocco
Lol the soviets are not a charity. Omg the fact that you post that imperialist drivel unironically is just the cherry on top. I don’t have to add anything here.
Japanese fascists were a far bigger threat to the Soviet Union than the Nazis during the 1930s. Japan already sacked Nanjing. In one city, the Japanese fascists butchered the same amount of people as the Francoists did for the entire civil war. This is how brutal the Japanese fascists were relative to the Francoists. And unlike the Francoists, the Empire of Japan actually tried to invade the Soviet Union but got owned before venturing too far. Why should the Soviet Union send those 400+ tanks to Republican Spain without expecting something in return? If anything, the Soviet Union shouldn’t have wasted material with a lost cause that is Republican Spain and shipped those tanks to the Republic of China instead where they wouldn’t be squandered. One tank to Spain is one less tank to China. Frankly, Stalin bet on the wrong horse.
That’s the kind of unfiltered tankie logic I so enjoy see expressed for all the leftists to see.
I don’t think a racist comic is a good look for anarchism, but you do you.
Maybe Mao is just enjoying a really pretty sunrise.
“fascism bad” is tankie logic now
are you saying it was an IMF style financial imperialism dirty loan?
Genuine question!
I am saying that the soviets were never about emancipating the working class. They were always about making them a satellite state
when the soviets were first formed, they were the working class, so what do you mean? at what point in the degeneration of the workers state are you discussing?
I am talking in context of the Spanish Revolution
emancipating the working class. They were always about making them a satellite state
the working class of spain, the state of spain
I don’t have to add anything here.
I’m sensing a pattern
Is the pattern that I don’t have patience to entertain fools?
Then why are you masochistically staying here as if you do?
It’s a mystery!
The pattern is that you grandstand about being above arguing to avoid needing to engage with their actual positions
man, debate me bros are the fucking worst…
“Totalitarian” is a totally made-up, meaningless distinction. There is no conceivable metric by which you could call any socialist state “totalitarian” that wouldn’t apply a hundredfold to the US Empire. Seriously, this conversation cannot continue unless you read Blackshirts and Reds, it sums up every point I could make to argue with you with much more depth and eloquence. If you have the slightest pretention to intellectual seriousness, go and read that. Then, once you have, message me and I’ll send you a link to season 3 of a podcast called Blowback, covering the Korean war. I think you’ll find it informative.
I’ve taken a harsh tone with you, because you need to be jolted out of this fundamentally incorrect mindset. But if you read what I’ve suggested and actually process the information, if you try to understand the societies you harshly criticize in the depth and richness of their actual existence and not the literal Saturday morning cartoon evil version you’ve had ingrained in you by a multi-trillion dollar propaganda campaign, you’ll arrive at the same opinions I have now - including feeling the way I do about people espousing the views you have done. Until you understand that no “western” country has EVER come closer to socialism than the USSR, China, Cuba or the DPRK (or even had the merest potential to) you are not only useless to the international cause of the workers but an active detriment, a stooge of the Empire that is currently enslaving humanity. That might only manifest as irritating, trivial anticommunist memes on a backwater internet forum, but it still might as well be fought against, and if there’s the slightest chance you can be educated into a helpful comrade then I might as well try.
No I’m not going to go do homework just to argue to you. Just because I disagree with tankie talking points doesn’t mean I’m ignorant.
In any case you’ve missed the point that the “closest to socialism” doesn’t count for shit. It will never be socialism. In fact it’s just state Capitalism and always devolves into Capitalism. That’s what ML always leads to when left to it’s own designs. This is undeniable by now.
No I’m not going to go do homework just to argue to you. Just because I disagree with tankie talking points doesn’t mean I’m ignorant.
“leftists” actually knowing what they’re talking about and reading theory challenge (impossible if you did it you would be a tankie)
In fact it’s just state Capitalism and always devolves into Capitalism
I will reply with a meme
I’m not going to go do homework just to argue to you
Then that’s the end of our conversation. I’ve pointed out a direction in which you can expand your knowledge, even if it’s just knowledge of what your “enemy” thinks - you can have some intellectual curiosity, or you can not, but in the latter case there’s no reason for me to spend further effort trying to force it upon you.
Very enlightened of you, thank you, master.
you’ve not read shit, the only thing you’ve won is the ability to be the smuggest idiot ever
Just because I disagree with tankie talking points doesn’t mean I’m ignorant.
That is true! What have you read about the Spanish civil war or the ukrainian anarchist movement from an ML perspective? I’ve read a fair amount of critique of the situations from an anarchist perspective and I still broadly agree with the ML take on the situation.
Goddamn! People, please! Posting a meme is not an invitation to invite me to a debate on the historical context of the Spanish Revolution. Cheezus. There’s dedicated anarchist forums for that!
You complain when people take your post seriously, you complain when people dismiss it, you complain when people “put words in your mouth” and whine about straw men but do exactly those things to others, you write pages of comments but suddenly refuse to elaborate when pressed on an inconvenient point.
What are you doing here besides sectarianism and acting like a horse’s ass?
Look mate, I don’t owe you shit. Not even an explanation. But I’ll tell you this, seeing tankies evolve into their “debate me bro” forms is amusing to me. Seeing them get more and more upset because I refuse to play their game is amusing to me. Seeing them think I’m very upset is amusing to me.
This is all the more amusing because I didn’t even try to annoy tankies but they came over here to be annoyed.
Look into your heart, you know this to be true.
Y’all are buzzing around an anarchist community as if I personally kicked your hornet’s nest for posting this one meme. This is amusing to me.
Y’all are good peeps when dunking on libs, but fucking hell, choose your battles, eh?
Goddamn! People, please! Posting a meme is not an invitation to invite me to a debate on the historical context of the Spanish Revolution
Why don’t you be a good little authoritarian and lock the thread then, or is that M next to your name just there to show you like taking Ls after Ls like a Masochist.
I just love to be dunked by my Hexbears mommies and daddies.
Okay, would you prefer to instead talk about the lack of anarchist purges in China and how in the meme you shared, everyone has eyes except for Mao who has slits instead? Can we talk about how that is in inappropriate way to depict Asian people?
Yes it is. If you don’t like it you can always delete your post Lmaoo. You don’t get to decide how people react to your post.
I mean, you’re free to challenge me all you want and I will continue to make fun of you for it
Show me one ML nation which is not totalitarian right now, or didn’t fall back into capitalism and fascism as soon as it inevitably collapsed
Show me one anarchist nation ever that has survived more than a couple of years or is not just a tiny commune somewhere isolated.
Wasnt the japanese the ones to end the commune in manchuria?
Anarcho-bidenists have this weird habit of talking about themselves like they are Jewish or something in the sense of having a history of brutal persecution, even if the speaker in question is just some white guy from a liberal family with absolutely no connection to those historical anarchists except for that they now also call themselves an anarchist. Is really weird and LARPy.
In the crosspost, a comrade added:
Its a way for boring people who hate reading to tap into that “the communists KILLED my PEOPLE” narrative, its like a politcal personality starter pack. You get an underdog “subversive” ideology, a formative tragedy and an eternal enemy!
Nice strawman you erected there.
Slapping informal fallacy names on sentiments you dislike is not, in fact, a very good approach to almost anything.
That’s the only response I can do to you putting words in my mouth. Don’t know why you’re complaining
you putting words in my mouth
You posted a meme. Use your words if you don’t want people misconstruing whatever you’re trying to say.
Fuck you, you’re not my real dad!
Posts words
words are read
“DON’T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH TANKIE”
“okay then use your words to explain why me reading what you wrote misrepresents you”
No :3
I think OP is just a genuine fucking idiot and the reason they can’t answer seriously in a single conversation in this thread is because there’s just nothing behind their eyes to respond with
you don’t know that for sure, do you?
I’m not particularly putting words in your mouth, I am giving an opinion on what you said (or, rather, the subgenre of statement). You could explain, if you were so inclined, how this characterization is inaccurate rather than merely saying that it is inaccurate, but then that would require something other than a listicle on Wikipedia.
Why should I argue “I’m not an elephant” as we say in my country? This is patently absurd. You erected a strawman and I called you out. As far as I’m concerned, case closed, unless you can point where in my words I acted like a marginalized class because of historical anarchists.
Look again at the fucking meme in the OP. “oh, the tankies killed us anarchists in these historical conflicts, and they will kill us anarchists in future conflicts too if we don’t stop them!”
Just saying a fucking fallacy name isn’t a counterargument anymore than saying “you’re wrong” is a counterargument. Actual arguments require making inferences, not just stating premises.
Personally, I think that someone leading insurrections against institutions that have overwhelming popular support due to actively working to give people healthcare, food, etc. is clearly a counterrevolutionary prick and an anarchist who opposes a project that feeds the children for the first time in centuries because it’s not a syndicate is being myopic at best, but that’s just me.
Personally, I think that someone leading insurrections against institutions that have overwhelming popular support due to actively working to give people healthcare, food, etc. is clearly a counterrevolutionary prick and an anarchist who opposes a project that feeds the children for the first time in centuries because it’s not a syndicate is being myopic at best, but that’s just me.
If we were in a hypothetical revolutionary situation led by anarchists that was genuinely and successfully challenging state capitalist power here in the UK then I, as a Marxist-Leninist, wouldn’t be like “Erm, guys, you haven’t sufficiently considered Lenin! Aren’t you aware that the hijacking and reconfiguration of the state for socialist purposes is a necessary transition period towards communism?” I would get behind the fucking barricades with them.
There’s a difference between opposing lesser evilism in the context of Western capitalist electoral politics between two bourgeois parties, and like, being anti-ML or anti-anarchist in actual revolutionary situations (and not stupid fucking hypothetical internet arguments) because “it’s not doing communism right.” Unless there were like, REALLY fucking big problems with what the group is doing, I would just shut up and not weaken the overall movement. As Awoo stated, this is literally what ML groups are doing in Palestine as we speak.
Personally, I think that someone leading insurrections against institutions that have overwhelming popular support due to actively working to give people healthcare, food, etc. is clearly a counterrevolutionary prick and an anarchist who opposes a project that feeds the children for the first time in centuries because it’s not a syndicate is being myopic at best, but that’s just me.
I applaud your Quixotic efforts to get them to argue about the topic instead of arguing about the meta argument in the most self aggrieved way.
Look again at the fucking meme in the OP. “oh, the tankies killed us anarchists in these historical conflicts, and they will kill us anarchists in future conflicts too if we don’t stop them!”
No, it means “Don’t trust tankies, don’t believe their tales in leftist unity”. Even if we just accept what you just wrote, it’s still nowhere near claiming we’re a marginalized class. That’s just a very uncharitable reading of this meme.
Just saying a fucking fallacy name isn’t a counterargument anymore than saying “you’re wrong” is a counterargument. Actual arguments require making inferences, not just stating premises.
Yes it fucking is! I don’t have the patience to argue every inane claim people are throwing in here. I got shit to do.
Personally, I think that someone leading insurrections against institutions that have overwhelming popular support due to actively working to give people healthcare, food, etc. is clearly a counterrevolutionary prick
I wouldn’t call them “counter-revolutionary” as there’s nothing revolutionary about supporting the status quo, but otherwise we agree.
and an anarchist who opposes a project that feeds the children for the first time in centuries because it’s not a syndicate is being myopic at best, but that’s just me.
We also agree. But typically it’s the MLs who refuse to support such anarchist projects because they’re not led by MLs hierarchically.
you haven’t done anything but bitch and moan at things you don’t understand. No wonder you hate tankies! You have zero political literacy!
Snk- erected.
Unlike tankies, who are definitely not weird and larpy about their ideological forebears. /s
cross-posted from lemmy.world
I’ve just entered this thread, and that single emoji right at the top confirms my fears.
If you tried to show this meme to someone irl at like a political rally they’d just squint their eyes in confusion and walk away because this kind of adolescent drama is only meaningful to like a couple of hundred people total, half of whom can’t vote and all of whom have 2k+ hours logged in multiple paradox games.
Meme has been ammended to not be racist. Sorry about not paying close enough attention to it. I’ve been having issues with my object storage and I’ve been trying to fix it. In the end I decided to rehost on imgur.
Neat, now we can see how long before/if federated instances update that.
Still currently showing the original on Hexbear, unfortunately
The imgur link shows up on https://hexbear.net/post/1070448 for me.
TIL it pings you if someone posts a link to a thread you posted
I @ed you in the message at first before editing it in case you wanted to change the link of your x-post, it must not remove the ping after editing
Just a hint: if you find yourself accidentally doing racism, maybe stop and consider if you’re doing the right thing.
Liberals would sooner censor out the surface level racism than consider if maybe the underlying message is racist.
Yeah, they did, that’s why they fixed it. This is fairly common in life.
I’m sorry to be the fun police, and this isn’t particularly related to everyone else’s arguing in this thread, but I’ve always been kind of bothered by the, like, pink wojak, you know? Especially given the origins of wojaks and who popularized them, the idea of using “and he was shaking inconsolably, speaking irrationally, gnashing his teeth to smithereens, with a red face and blood-shot eyes with tears like waterfalls” as a punchline… Well, that makes it sound like that’s something to point and laugh at, doesn’t it? So I worry that things like that end up reinforcing the sort of civility culture in general, and anti-autistic sentiment in particular.
Just, my two kopeks, as it were.
i just fucking hate wojaks in general
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I’VE COME TO HATE WOJAKS SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR WOJAKS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT. FOR THEM. HATE. HATE.
At least rage comics had charm. Wojacks just fell like a souless reboot
The only one I like is
They create such lame excuses to defend things like Trotsky assassination it’s awful
holy shit
If the anarchists in the soviet union were allowed power, general plan Ost would have come to fruition. Anarchists have historically not been able to lead mass industrialization in a coordinated way, and have not been able to lead successful military campaigns across territories as large as the USSR. If the soviet leadership didn’t protect the revolution from anarchists, part of my family would have died in a death camp instead of being liberated from one by red army soldiers.
But the tankies stabbed the pure hearted anarchists in the back! Okay, maybe the anarchists shouldn’t have been idealists who cared more about coops than actually prosecuting a successful socialist transition. Literally read Lenin’s interaction with the anarchist prince.
Ah, at least we come to the crux of the disagreement. “Anarchists, babies! MLs, strong!”. It always comes down to that, but it’s refreshing to see you just straight up say it sometimes, so that people can see it.
Anyway, please take your historic fiction in the appropriate places. I can pull stories out of my ass as well, but that convinces no-one.
PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!
Have you read anything about the failures of coordination among the anarchist militias in Catalonia? Or their failures of economic coordination beyond the local level?
Have you even absorbed the critiques enough that you are in a place to argue against them?
Because this is serious stuff that you should be educated about before you make judgements about it.
I’m very sympathetic to anarcho syndicalism, but it showed its weaknesses in Spain and sectarian anarchists blame it on the USSR instead of learning from it.
PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!
It is not socially well adapted to declare “appeal to emotion” when someone is communicating why something is personally important to them. What I’m doing is expressing myself in a normal human way, and you consider that manipulative?
Have you read anything about the failures of coordination among the anarchist militias in Catalonia? Or their failures of economic coordination beyond the local level?
Ah, nice try, but I already told you I’m not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War. Why don’t you go to the places where there’s anarchists up for that sort of thing?
What I’m doing is expressing myself in a normal human way, and you consider that manipulative?
You implied that not crushing anarchists would have directly led to a successful genocide. Ye it’s pretty manipulative.
I’m not going to debate you, I’m just going to talk shit.The difference is that I shit my pants and cry when you respond to me
Apparently shitting my pants is enough to have two dozen hexbears hopping mad to the point that they’re trolling through the comments days later trying to dunk on me. Stay mad, bby!
Everybody who calls me on my behavior is mad and no that’s not a transparent coping mechanism
Oh sorry I didn’t know “you shit your pants” and similar terms was your collective hexbest at a call out.
In that case I do apologize for thinking the random shitposts on random comments were due to anger. You’re clearly trying.
Ah, nice try, but I already told you I’m not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War.
I asked you if you’ve even read anything about it, not if you want to debate me about it.
You implied that not crushing anarchists would have directly led to a successful genocide. Ye it’s pretty manipulative.
It isnt manipulative to point out that my family would have been killed if the anarchists won, it is giving you an explanation for why I have little sympathy for complaints by anarchists repeating the “stabbed in the back” myth instead of actually digging into the history of their project and learning from its failures to do better next time.
I asked you if you’ve even read anything about it, not if you want to debate me about it.
That’s how they get you! taps forehead
It isnt manipulative to point out that my family would have been killed if the anarchists won,
lol, yea it is. You don’t have any idea what would have happened if the anarchists won. Maybe they Spanish revolution would have worked without the backstab and Hitler would have expended himself. Who the fuck knows. It’s pretty manipulative to posit a major historical event going completely differently would have worked out the same way except that it would have led this one really horrible thing which everyone has an emotional reaction to. Cmon…
That’s how they get you! taps forehead
If the goal is to get you to read yes, that is the secret tankie plot, to make you a better anarchist who is able to grow from previous failures instead of acting like an aggrieved post ww1 german soldier.
It’s pretty manipulative to posit a major historical event going completely differently would have worked out the same way except that it would have led this one really horrible thing. Cmon…
Were any anarchists talking about the need for massive industrialization at any cost in the late 1920s early 1930s in the soviet union? No? Then if the anarchists were in charge, yes, the nazis would have won and been able to implement plan ost.
Were any anarchists talking about the need for massive industrialization at any cost in the late 1920s early 1930s in the soviet union? No? Then if the anarchists were in charge, yes, the nazis would have won and been able to implement plan ost.
Tell me when the novel comes out.
That’s how they get you! taps forehead
If you masturbate any more furiously in this thread you might faint from dehydration.
Ah, nice try, but I already told you I’m not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War.
Only about everything else, one-handedly.
debate pervert
I mean you are the one who has left your containment instance to fight over a meme.
PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!
Go back to Reddit.
When Reddit sends their smuglords, they’re not sending their best.
Ah, at least we come to the crux of the disagreement. “Anarchists, babies! MLs, strong!”. It always comes down to that, but it’s refreshing to see you just straight up say it sometimes, so that people can see it.
Anyone paying attention to what they actually said and not your petulant response will notice how far your characterization is off from the actual source. You’re putting on a shameful display.
@[email protected] hey why not this specific criticism?
Remember when you acted like I was only insulting you and not making valid criticisms? Why don’t you reply to the valid criticisms instead of the insults you deserved when it became clear you refused to engage in good faith?
Because you’re patronizing. Y’all are patronizing af. So You don’t deserve nothing else but the ridicule and sarcasm I’ve been giving.
Y’all can insult me all you want. Don’t worry, I can take it. There’s a reason my comments are still open to y’all.
Oh wow you actually responded.
So are you going to apologize for lying, or is it just onto this new latest excuse?
Again, you’re being treated the way you deserve to be treated. It’s not happening in a vacuum. If you had acted like an adult in the first place no one would be treating you like a child.
I am incapable of lying. So I have nothing to apologize for.
But do keep up the patronizing attitude. It’s a winner for sure.
You force people to explain things to you like a child when you lie like this.
Listen dummy: you acted like you were only getting insulted and that there was an absence of genuine criticism. So then I pointed out the criticism you lied and pretended didn’t exist.
Then like the child you are, you changed your story and decided all of a sudden you weren’t responding because you didn’t like being treated like a child. Not even acknowledging your previous lie or the effort you forced others to go through to get past it.
Such is the manner you act like a child.
PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!
I like it
I love it
It’s funny that
It’s ironic that
It’s interesting that
Reddit-brained smug enlightened centrist liberals like yourself try to mask your rage with tedious “totally not mad” sentence openers.
tankie calling an anarchist a “centrist liberal”
I don’t even need to check what instance you come from hexie
Anarchists have historically not been able to lead mass industrialization in a coordinated way
Because its not anarchists job to do that but worker’s job, and they are very good at self-organizing.
have not been able to lead successful military campaigns across territories as large as the USSR
You say this as if they had multiple chances to do so lol.
Because its not anarchists job to do that but worker’s job, and they are very good at self-organizing.
The anarchist workers didn’t do a good job. The popular front workers did a better job, the Soviet workers did a better job.
You say this as if they had multiple chances to do so lol.
They had a chance in Catalonia, a much smaller field, and couldnt coordinate there.
Damn. This shit is depressing. Self proclaimed “leftists” still out there complaining about “tankies” in 2023. Truly embarrassing for everyone.
These “leftists” have just refused to read anything besides George Orwell for several years now and I don’t think they’re going to change anytime soon.
George Orwel
I love his popcorn.
‘Tankies’ (for the lack of a better word) have been against communism throughout history. It’s disingenuous to assume they could be capable of unity
Just call em authoritarians. That’s what they are
I always wonder what the political left would look like in different European countries in the 20th century had it not been for the influence of the Soviet Union. Soviet influence ran, in my humble opinion, like poison through the veins of European socialist organisations. It seems to me like successful left wing mobilization is directly correlated with a relative lack of Soviet influence.
Yeah. They executed a lot of leftist thinking and set back progress for decades. And inadvertently were the reason for the red scare still deeply ingrained in many
Many anarchists were simply murdered:
- nazy-germany the anarchist movement was whole-sale murdered. Since then there is no anarchsist movment in germany.
- franco-fascist-spain he murdered 200,000 anarchists after the civil war
- ukraine machnowiki anarchists
- russian anarchists and many more…
that is the reason why there is no anarchist movement in europe today. Before these events Anarchists were a major part of the workers movement.
What an impressive turn out. Looks like they’re all using the exact same “arguments” (a combination of manipulation techniques and logical fallicies) that they use every single time.
It’s worrying how much of a presence these people create in online discourse because they come out in full force, dominating and suppressing anyone or thing that challenges them. There is no healthy debate.
But i suppose it all makes perfect sense; these people glorify the state, single party rule and dictatorship. Their behavior is a logical result of these beliefs
What is the appropriate way to object? It seems like asking them to substantiate checks notes literally anything about what they claim is being pretty open, it certainly is different from making a conscious effort to just harass them off the platform.
But no matter what we did, it would be “a logical result of these beliefs” that in some way is incriminating and demonstrates how evil we are, any behavior except perhaps capitulating. Your psychoanalysis, like that of Freud, is an unfalsifiable, post-hoc myth-making that impedes rather than enables causal understanding of what is going on.
And all for these shitty little West Wing monologues about how the real authoritarianism is making a rude comment on a forum.
the exact same “arguments” (a combination of manipulation techniques and logical fallicies)
are you going to name any of these “arguments” or are you just going to decry any person that disagrees with you as illogical and hysteric?
There is no healthy debate.
Is this because every attempt at “healthy debate” with OP ends with them shitting their pants and crying “I don’t owwwwwwwwwwwe you a debate”?
Nah, it’s the damn tankies!
cry harder. or disable downvotes on your instance, that also works
This comment sounds like it was written by the official AI of liberalism.
okay
you’ve taken your shit on the table, you can leave now
Yo, it’s one thing to have fun with me, it’s another to attack everyone else here. Behave yourself, ya shitstain.
oh no the brave CIAnarchist is protecting his fake leftist buddies, whatever will I, the evil tankie villain, do against this?
If he didn’t want a clapback he shouldn’t have walked in and given his shit take
please relax, this is embarrassing behavior cmon
Bye now.
We need to connect, which then leaves us open to cointelpro. The problem of cointelpro has not been resolved, questioning our capabilities to organize ourselves.
We need a code of honor that makes cointelpro tactics a waste of time.
