Unfortunately, I drive a ghetto minivan which causes the police to profile me and has caused people in small towns to call the police on me if I am in a public park or in their neighborhood. I even had someone call the police on me at campground that I had pre-paid for and the police were not sympathetic at all to my right to just exist.
I am aware of stop and identify laws and know that a cop needs reasonable suspicion to demand to see your ID. However, can’t the cop just make up some lies about reasonable suspicion?
If a cop approaches me can I immediately start with: “Officer, do you have reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is in the process of occurring, or is about to occur?” It seems like that will immediately escalate things even if technically the law is on my side.
I just want a damn right to exist law and to not be a target for an overactive imagination by the police which treats me like a criminal until they can check me for warrants.
Honestly, I want to tell them to fuck off right away but I also don’t have money for a lawyer.
Not sure if it’d help, but you could stick a buuunch of camping, hiking, outdoors, etc. stickers on your van. Try to turn its image from a “ghetto” van to a “hippy / outdoor enthusiast” van. I imagine you can order large sticker packs online for very cheap.
Yeah, that is a good idea. It would probably work best on a VW van like the kind surfers use. I suppose with enough stickers strategically placed it could look like you were into rock climbing, or surfing, or something involving the outdoors.
Just a heads-up, vans with climbing stickers can attract break-ins because they tell people “there’s a bunch of expensive gear in here that would be easy to fence”. Happens all the time in vegas. Hope you stay safe out there!
Maybe a bunch of penguin stickers and one that says, “Ask me about Linux!”
Might hurt on date night, though.
“There’s a bunch of computers in there! But we don’t know how to use them.”
Yeah, rock climbing sounds even better than hippies for this purpose.
I just had a mental image of some overweight dude with tons of rock climbing stickers on their van. (Not implying anything OP, but just a funny picture I imagined)
After seeing the article about the 300lb pentathlete (who, yes, has to deal with social pressures due to his unusual build) I wouldn’t even blink.
But law enforcement in the US are eager to invoke stereotypes if it will get them closer to securing an arrest / conviction.
Ideally, you do what helps become invisible to police officers.
Guess you have to look the part to sell this one properly
However, you don’t want to live in a VW surfer van. They’re cold as hell at night, zero insulation. Also they’re decades behind safety standards, in a collision with anything, they crumple like a soda can.
They look iconic, but I don’t recommend it in practice.
Best idea in the thread. You see old subies covered in REI and mountain climbing and hiking and backpacking stickers everywhere
This is an awesome idea. Here are a couple (here’s one, here’s another, and for kicks and giggles a third).
Pigs is pigs, buddy.
You gotta play along unless you wanna start shit. And pigs being pigs means you can’t really start telling them what they’re doing is inappropriate or unnecessary, that puts em in fight or flight mode and pigs don’t fly.
I’d guess your best bet would be that they get used to you and become nonchalant with their check-ins. Just be stupid friendly about the whole thing and maybe try to remember a few of their names. If it’s a small town, can’t be too many of em. Eventually maybe you can shift it from “Good afternoon, Officer, what seems to be the problem?” to “Ah hey Steve, Mrs. Granger worried about me again? Aint that sweet, how’s the kids?”
Edit: I see elsewhere in the thread you mentioned you’re living in the van. That makes things harder. Even if you’re complying with the law, pigs hate that shit. When I was living in a car, I had a sob story ready for any cop that interrogated me and if I got caught and had to use it, I wasn’t sleeping in that county again for another month. The campground bit is especially fucking frustrating, you PAID to be there, that’s all on the up and up. They’re monsters, buddy, not sure how to help, but I find being some caricature outta some 50’s PSA film to em pads their egos and smooths interactions in general. Tho the shoddy van won’t help.
that puts em in fight or flight mode and pigs don’t fly.
😂 Love that line!
Keep Pokemon Go on your phone, when they approach, open the app and then nerd the fuck out on them about whatever Pokemon are nearby and try to recruit them, they’ll leave you alone real quick.
“Sir, do i detect an herb smell?”
“Yeah I think there’s an oddish around here somewhere. Want to help me look?”
That must be the incense I used to attract more Pokemon!
If you’re not doing anything illegal then I highly recommend keeping your hands out in the open where they can see both of them, and politely answering their questions.
They have a gun, so its not about right/wrong, it’s about your own safety. You don’t know if that’s a decent one or a shitty one.
Yeah, you are right. Once I opened the door when I got pulled over by Border Patrol. I opened it because my power window was broken. They did not like me opening the door.
Many police departments in the US are explicitly trained to treat encounters with people as potential combat situations. They get taught lessons like “Your first job is to go home alive.” It’s continually drilled into them how dangerous their job is, even though that’s not statistically true. This obligates you to treat an encounter with an officer as a potentially life threatening situation.
If your window isn’t working, do not open your door. Police regularly approach a traffic stop prepared for a violent confrontation, sometimes going so far as resting their hand on their firearm.
I worked on a military base for a while, where each vehicle was stopped to show ID badges. The right approach is to say (and mime - eg point at the window, point down, and shake your head “no”) that your window isn’t working. They’ll probably take a step back and tell you to open the door.
It’s wrong, it needs to change, but until it does we need to adapt our behaviors to fit the situations we are put into.
Solid post. These guys get “warrior” training. Like they are embedded with the enemy. When you set the general tone like that, common folk are at a disadvantage right out of the gate.
Be respectful and polite and try to escape the situation with as little impact as possible.
Lt. Colonel David Grossman is not the worst thing to happen to american policing but he’s sure not helping anything.
oh that’s the dickhead with the silly killing mentality right?
having a van that works properly would probably help your credibility, yes.
/lh
“What seems to be the problem officer?” Is how you should start every conversation with the police. Be polite, respectful, and firm in your rights. And most importantly don’t say more than the answer to legal questions.
until you feel like they are trying to lead you into giving them reasonable suspicion, at which point you begin the “am i free to go?” routine.
To me that sounds like it’s opening the door by assuming there’s a problem. I think I’d lead with “good morning sir” and let them start talking.
I disagree solely because you want to be the one asking why the cop is there and the cop is going to try to beat you to that punch. If they ask why you think there’s a problem “a police officer is getting my attention” is a valid response.
Anyway if anyone wonders why cops are hated, it’s the fact that ordinary law abiding citizens need to learn the special language that makes cops not get aggressive and accuse you of crimes.
Assuming this is USA, the phrase you’re looking for is “Am I being detained, or am I free to go?”
For a more detailed answer, this is what the ACLU has to say.
God I love living in a developed country where the Police executes and does not judge (not USA)
You don’t. It just hasn’t happened to you yet.
When cops don’t know the laws they are enforcing and thus telling your rights is not only seen as demeaning since it’s their job to know, but makes them actively hostile and more likely to violate those rights out of embarrassment, it’s a no win scenario. Better to just go along with their security theater and say as little as possible outside of answering direct questions.
You only have rights if you survive the encounter first.
A few years ago, I was pulled over after waving at a cop as we locked eyes while still stopped at an intersection. He said it was because my seat belt wasn’t on, even though it was and I was in a lime green shirt so the dark gray belt should have been pretty visible across my chest and he wanted to argue that I put it on as he was pulling me over. To which I pointed out my dashcam system, said my belt was on the entire time and I could show him the video right now if he wanted. He just got pissed and gave me a ticket anyway. “Ok, but I have proof that you’re wrong so this is just a huge waste of everyone’s time,” I said as he walked away.
Fucker didn’t even show up to court so it was thrown out. Really was just wasting everyone’s time. Mine. His. And the courthouse’s.
Should have been a black mark on his record.
The cop mentality is all about feeling superior, so the last thing you want is to challenge him. Probably gets angry real quick and maybe even violent.
You have to treat them as if they are criminals. Don’t upset them, stay quiet, try to act submissive.
How you want the world to treat you or the car only exists in your head. In reality, people gets treated after how they are perceived by others.
Wow, “treat cops as if they are criminals”
That’s a piece of advice I’ll share around
- Always record the police.
- STFU.
But sometimes you can tell that the police will get violent if you don’t lick their boots, so if you have to change your game plan, do what you need to do to.
Say “hi”.
Damn being white guy is the best shit ever.
I think you might enjoy this song:
I’m sorry officer. I didn’t know I couldn’t do that.
That was such a a good bit. I remember when I saw it thinking about the time I got turned around at a major transit center and drove in the restricted area. Cops gave me a look, I rolled down my window and just said I was sorry and was going to leave.
There’s a lot of disappointing comments on here, like no shit you would use a different vehicle if you had access.
First, someone mentioned any cop has the right to check for insurance/etc, so being prepared for that and being amicable, as bright-eyed as you can be. Those marks usually get noted I think though. And another mentioned a sob story, harder in some circumstances but you can get pretty creative from Moms colonoscopy to funeral road trip (from the colonoscopy ofc).
However, I would like to add - do you have any way to meet creative people willing to turn your ghetto van into a painted art car? I was wondering what region you’re around (don’t need to mention it no worries) and you’ve mentioned a lot of small towns which makes me think mid-south or west. Either way, going over the car with some primer and a theme may help turn it from ghetto to art-van.
I would try hitting up craigslist or posting on local pages, if funds are an issue I would maybe just mention the situation, doing it in sections. A for sure place you can get it done though for free? Pretty much anywhere in the PNW (OR/WA at least) there are all kinds of weird parties and gatherings and I’ve seen tons of “paint me” vans, and honestly most of the time they look freaking sick. They’re always a mix of hand paint and airbrush.
If you are able to save some over time, you could technically apply these yourself for just barely cheaper than an auto-shop, but it would be some work. You’d need 1 - 1 1/2 of grey primer to cover the van - anywhere from $35 (check dates then shake really, really well) to $85. And then probably the spray/air gun.
Either way, you’ll want to follow the proper care for treating the car before you paint it - clean, sand, primer, (maybe sand, maybe not if art car), then the hard part is the clear coat. That part I’m not as familiar with unfortunately.
Last random idea, there are these like rental camper vans, probably a bunch of companies but faking one of those. Same idea as the art car just dumber lol.
Anyways, good luck and I hope in the future you have better reception to questions like this - and that you’re able to relax wherever you’re staying.
like no shit you would use a different vehicle if you had access.
Thanks for stating that! It’s like when there’s a cold snap below freezing and some homeless guy freezes to death from exposure and someone says, “Why didn’t he just go rent a hotel room for the night? It’s just one night”
What color are you? Pigs basically use
as training material, so the darker shade you are the more careful you gotta be with slow hand movements and clear communication.The answer is “am I being detained or am I free to go?” The answer to every question after is “lawyer” or shut the fuck up. Every day is Shut The Fuck Up Friday.
STFU Friday is gospel. Especially the one with Michael Rappaport.
Are you living out of said van? That complicates things quite a bit. If you really are just chillin’ just show them your ID and get on with it. None of these dudes are trained and are already aggressive towards you.
Are you living out of said van?
Yes, I am.
Don’t show them your ID then. If I were you I wouldn’t chill anywhere longer than thirty minutes during the day. Misery loves company so that shit is illegal in a lot of places. I dont know of any of them but I vaguely remember forums about surviving like this on reddit.
Yep, I agree with you. I do move around a lot. But I also paid for a spot at a campground where you’re supposed to be able to just chill and I still got harassed.
Check the rules for the campground next time you pay for a spot. Sometimes they sneak shit in there where you actually can’t be camping out of your car. I haven’t seen that where I live in the southwest. But I have seen people post about it in northern states.
Yeah, you’re right about that. I have seen those rules about car camping. Not sure what they were at the campground I was at but I got there around 1:30PM and was only there an hour before the deputy sheriff showed up. Even if that campground had a rule like that it was only 2:30 in the afternoon and surely there wouldn’t have been a “you must set up your tent within x minutes of arriving” rule. Cops suck! And the people who call cops because their overactive imagination gets the best of them suck too!
get a decoy tent. /s
maybe cleaning it will help. the difference between someone’s “i’m gonna haul shit” van and a drug dealer’s van is often just the amount of dirt and the straightness of the panels.
If you’re in a vehicle, they do have the right to check if you’re the registered owner, are licensed and insured, tags up to date, etc.
Best advice:
Longer, but the most important 45 minutes you can spend today:
tl;dw - The Miranda warning tells you everything you need to know: “Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST YOU.” Not for you, AGAINST YOU.
Nothing you say to the cops will be used to help you, so do not talk to them.
If I see them approaching from far away and hop out of the vehicle am I then a pedestrian and no longer count as being in my vehicle?
Unless they see you exiting the vehicle.
The only thing that really matters is if you are driving or not. So if the vehicle is turned off and the keys are out of the ignition, you are not a driver. Therefore they cannot issue any moving violations or any similar driving related citations. Unless you are illegally parked, that’s another issue.
If they are already approaching you, and you jump out of the car, that would look automatically suspicious to the suspicion-filled pig brain. So if you want to get out just do that before they approach.
Nah, if you are in control of the vehicle. Meaning if you have the keys and the ability to turn it on and drive. Sleeping drunk in a vehicle can get you a DUI even if the car is off and you’re parked.
Seems to me you can be charged with DUI if you’re drunk and in a car regardless of whether the keys are in it or not?
I don’t think so
It depends on the location and local laws, but even then cops can charge you with whatever they want. Whether those charges hold up in court is another story.
Correct. This is no different than if my friend gives me a ride and runs into a store to buy something while I stay in the car. It’s not a traffic stop so police can’t just demand that I give them papers and prove the car is legally allowed to be on the road because we’re not on the road.
You shut the fuck up is what you do and film them if possible. Are you under arrest? No. Then police may not detain you without cause. See ya!
All inexperienced young people who get into issues with cops or landlords seem to want to be as deferential as possible, thinking that will mitigate any trouble that’s coming their way. But in essence, these people always ask for ways to make the cops/landlord’s job easier. Don’t tell them what words they need to say to you, don’t ask for specific paperwork. It’s their job to remove your personal freedoms and liberties, why would you make it easier for them to do that?
