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Star Trek fans have held the national stereotype of being way too rabid about things for decades but they’re probably the nicest fan base in all of science fiction and the one least likely to have a large faction of them absolutely lose it over a torpedo being fired by a woman or dumb shit like that
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anyone that tries to say star trek has “gone woke” or some stupid shit like that clearly isn’t a fan of it and just trying to rile up stuff. I mean come on… how can someone say that and have watched the shows LOL
Yeah, its not like Star Trek suddenly went woke, its been woke. First ever TV kiss between mixed races was between Kirk and Uhura. Scandalous.
That’s actually a common misconception. Not to downplay the significance of what Shatner and Nichols pulled off to get around the various censors (ruining alternate takes and such), but many TV shows did it before Star Trek.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television
Shatner is on that list multiple times. That man had an agenda.
He likes his coffee how he likes his women.
To go?
easily within reach?
Ground up in a bag in the freezer?
Mostly Asian?
I think it was the first one that was both broadcast nationally in a primetime slot and where the actors were easily identifiable as having different ethnicities on a tiny TV screen. Would explain the misconception.
I think it certainly was the most noticeable of anything shown on American TV at that point. But the British had us beat by years.
I stand corrected! Thanks for the info, I’ve believed that since 7th grade when I first learned of it from one of my teachers who was a massive Trekkie.
Late 30s here- it blows my mind that we don’t have to look very far into that past for the Shatner/Nichols smooch to be remarkable.
It’s uplifting to me. This present world can be ugly, but it’s comforting to think that the kiss is almost mundane when compared to the present.
A win is a win!
It’s literally like 80% of the show’s concept. The idea was to hide morality plays behind wacky alien makeup.
And they’re not even that woke. Afaik they still ocasionally eat animals in the 24th century. (Unless they’re Vulcan.) Watch The Orville if you want some proper progressive shit 😆
They have food replicators. The only thing not vegan about replicated meat is that they’d probably use your poop as bulk material to synthesize stuff
Pretty ure I saw Riker cooking with eggs at some point. And who knows what neelix gets up to in the galley
Could just replicate the eggs, or even a raw steak to grill, would still be poop meat.
Neelix on the other hand…
poop meat.
Knowing how chemicals and carbon compounds are recycled in Earth’s ecosystem and taking into account factory farming, I would wager the line between poop to serving of hot steak is much a much less connected line on a ship that turns matter into its constituent energy patterns.
Meanwhile on Earth we routinely have meat recalls because of e-coli contamination. Which is poop. As well as what we use to fertilize our root vegetables. Everyone is eating poop to some degree, it just becomes a problem when enough of it is in one spot to become contamination.
The replicators are also used to “recycle”, converting matter into energy, to be used for future replication.
I doubt they were hauling poop through space rather than converting it to poop energy for their next earl grey.
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True! Forgot about that. I think voyager had a few episodes with hunted game of some sort. The Klingons in general too. Guess actually trek isn’t super big on veganism haha
Yeah they have. But don’t they go on to tell in several episodes of all of the shows, how someones mom makes/made the best X/Y out of real ingredients and how much better that tastes than replicated food? And they eat on some planets with other people or on vacation… ?! Or someone worked in a restaurant?
Keiko really came off as not a nice person in that scene.
I don’t think the Star Trek replicator use raw materials to produce stuff. I’m pretty sure it’s just energy converted into matter.
Mmmm, poop meat 🤤
Watch The Orville if you want some proper progressive shit 😆
You mean like “agree to date me or else I’ll date the younger clone of you?”
No, no, more like “I’m going to fly a shuttle outside your quarters so I can spy on you during your date”
You weren’t supposed to see that.
You didn’t actually watch that ep, didja? Several tells there lol
(Honestly if you wanted fucking problematic Gordon was right there)
Not to mention the first black woman officer and the first black/white kiss.
the first black/white kiss.
…in a drama series. This was the first:
That’s Lynn Fontanne kissing Sammy Davis, Jr. at the 1965 Emmys.
As far as the first interracial kiss, that does have a star trek connection- Desi kissing Lu in 1951.
On top of that, Shatner himsellf kissed France Nuyen on the Ed Sullivan show in 1958.
https://fakehistoryhunter.net/2019/09/11/not-the-first-interracial-kiss-on-tv/
And of course it shall always be the first kiss between a black woman and a white man in space on tv.
I cracked up a bit at this. That was a great write up, I didn’t know before about Desilu’s involvement in making that kiss happen and their earlier milestone, that’s quite cool.
Specifically why I said black/white. and peck on the cheek isn’t consider a “kiss” by most people. (although it probably caused a stir). This was also right in the middle of the black civil rights movement which made it that much more risky.
Okay then, you’ll have to go with Sammy again and Nancy Sinatra:
That would have been in 1967. Plato’s Stepchildren was a year later.
On top of that, you have to further specify that this is only on American TV, because Gordon Heath kissed Rosemary Harris in a production of Othello on the BBC in 1955.
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Do you think insulting a mod will go well for you? And congratulations for proving the above meme incorrect about Star Trek being the nicest fan base.
Showing you that a passionate kiss between a white woman and a black woman happened on British television over a decade before Star Trek is not being pedantic. You were just wrong.
Holy shit my boy Shatner they’re both so beautiful 😍
Duet and Drumhead hit so hard. Incredible writing, phenomenal acting. I miss that in Star Trek.
I mean compared to TOS it’s gotten woke, but TOS was like extremely woke for the 60s
Right now it’s the modern entitled version of woke. Not the philosophical exploratory woke.
Modern Trek tells you off for thinking differently while old Trek set an example to aspire to.
And that’s only in the few limited moments NuTrek a actually bothers spending time on making an opinion, as most of it is cheaply written shlock to squeeze as much as possible out of underpaid VFX artists.
Releasing Let That Be Your Last Battlefield at the height of the civil rights movement wasn’t some hypothetical philosophizing. That was pointed condemnation. Same with The Outcast’s attack on conversion therapy, or In The Hands of the Prophets’ take on religious dogmatism.
Star Trek has always been happy to condemn bad ideas. If you think it’s just started telling people off now then you haven’t been paying attention.
It was 100% philosophy, and leading by example, exactly as I said. It spent the entire episode showing the hypocrisy of the two characters and showed the crew of The Enterprise to be better than their millenia old squabble.
It wasn’t 30 seconds of emotional finger pointing in between cheap action sci-fi.
I’ve been paying perfect attention to Star Trek. But it seems like loads of people have simply forgotten how Star Trek got their point across.
What do you think woke means?
I have a theory:
Star Trek fans were some of the earlier cosplayers. Trekkies were wearing Starfleet uniforms and Vulcan ears to conventions decades before the word “cosplay” was a thing. My father has a book called the Starfleet Technical Manual published in the 70’s that is basically an official guide for fans to build screen accurate costumes and props from, including sewing patterns for the various tunics and wrist-length dresses and a page of color swatches, plus dimensional drawings of tricorders, phasers and communicators.
And the public at large in the 1970s wasn’t ready for that yet.
People were cosplaying Junge Werther in the 1800s, it’s just a thing people do.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the ancient Greeks were cosplaying their favorite characters from the Trojan war or something. But the word cosplay is only attested from like 1993 in English and 1983 or so in Japan
I have that book! It’s super cool. It’s themed as a document made by the military about information on the Federation that leaked into the past.
There’s also diagrams of space stations and ships, and small things, like how to properly decorate sleeves and badges for rank and division.
Same man created the brilliant Star Trek Blueprints, the first detailed deck plans for the Enterprise. He did all this after his daughter took him to a Trek convention and he saw how passionate the fans were and what a need there was for material like this. It’s a great story.
I read my dad’s copy cover to cover as a kid, it’s a great bit of fluff for fans combined with a useful prop reference. It’s also fun that it’s basically all hand drawn, even the text pages look l Iike a draftsman hand lettered them.
I used to have the original black cover version. Long lost, sadly. I have it as an ebook though. The one Star Trek book from my youth I had to buy once when I saw it used was this one, which used to be canon until TNG threw almost all of it away. But Rick Sternbach illustrated it and the ideas are pretty fun.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_Spaceflight_Chronology
I think my favorite part is when an Earth expedition to Alpha Centauri meets Zefram Cochrane (TOS says he is from Alpha Centauri and there’s a lot of headcanon to explain it) and learns to communicate to him through mathematics. At the beginning, Cochrane draws a circle with a symbol next to it, the Earth mathematician realizes that it means pi and they move on from there.
Looks like someone scanned in every page if you’re interested: https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/spaceflight-chronology.php
Edit:
As much as I love First Contact, in terms of world building, I like that so much more.
Oh man those technical drawings are MY SHIT. I got all the Star Wars ones. I’ll definitely see if I can track this down
There’s a certain kind of kid that grew up just eating shit like this up.
I literally just used my copy that other day for a SW5e campaign. Was picking out my ship. Also got weapons one and there’s a NEW one that’s hardback
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ed830ed8-eb99-453b-b37f-d058be9c3d52.png
Hands up those old enough to remember the shitfest that erupted over Janeway (and/or Sisko)
I threw up the horns. It was nuts as a middle school girl, when Voyager first started airing, and everyone was so angry about Janeway and when I’d ask why they would turn red and shake their head, or change the topic.
The good old days, when sexist, racist, homophobes at least kept their mouths shut… Now they’d give you a speech about how she should be in the galley :(
It’s true. It’s not been a totally smooth ride. It’s taken work to educate fellow fans, and making the intolerant unwelcome.
Like there was early “controversy” about Geordie getting to be on the bridge. Which seemed kind of logical, but if you scratched below the surface you’d see how selective that critique was. That it was just racism and ableism
I remember a comment saying that Tuvok was so anal his skin is brown on Usenet in 1995. Some things never change.
Jesus
I kinda lost it when Janeway fired more photon torpedos than the ship had upon entering the Delta quadrant. Where did she get the extra torpedoes?! She’s a witch!
They figured a way to fabricate their own. Like the shuttles.
Head cannon is that 1/3 of voyager is taken up by a massive shuttle manufactory. It’s never discussed but it must be there…Otherwise, none of this shit makes any sense.😬
The lower decks should have done a joke about the three ensigns on Voyager who did nothing except build shuttles the entire seven years.
“Shuttle’s busted.”
“What happened now?”
“Harry fell in love with a nefarious alien woman.”
“Woo! I guessed right! Pay up!”
shot of betting pool titled “Reason for next shuttle rebuild”
There’s a giant board on the wall of the shop with pictures of shuttles they’ve drawn red Xs over.
Good eye!
Sorry, I was head-canoning the scenario. I’m not claiming it was actually there.
They could do it in the shuttle bay, they wouldn’t need much more space than a finished shuttle takes up. We know they have shipboard replimats for larger things, I figure replicating and building standard shuttle models on long voyages has standardized procedures and steps like Lego instructions. You only need to replicate one piece at a time saving on space. Gotta replace your shuttles somehow on those 5 years missions and the nearest Starbase is months away.
Yeah, if designing and building the Delta Flyer only took one episode, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that making more shuttles is easy and boring, and that’s why we don’t see it. Voyager was cutting edge when she was lost too
Ex Astris Scientia calculated that Voyager lost 17 shuttles in the Delta Quadrant.
Now you know what really happened to the Kazan.
They did canonically build the Delta Flyer from scratch.
I was always sad they never explored that sort of thing in an episode, didn’t have to be as big as the Delta Flyer but still!
They did it in Prodigy. The ship has a fully automated vehicle replicator (and hologram Janeway!)
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The entire Dune novel fanbase is also pretty decent. I like hanging out with him.
He was just in it for the Dune Popcorn Bucket.
It’s funny I was talking to the entire novel fanbase about a month ago and told him “well I dont hate all of Dune, the original David Lynch movie was excellent” and told me to get out. Haha
Yeah but like… have you read Chapterhouse? Shit goes off the rails
Even more than that fairly, uhm… graphic climbing scene in God-Emperor? Just started Heretics, so I’ll make sure to get the popcorn ready by the time I start Chapterhouse. 😋
Really anything past God Emperor gets slowly weirder and weirder
Slowly? There are mind controlling sex ninjas.
The Discworld fandom is another one you can’t be in if you’re an asshole because you clearly didn’t understand the source material.
GNU PTerry. And I’m with you there.
SHUT UP WE ARE NOT THE NICEST FAN BASE I WILL FIGHT YOU
Say that again and I’ll tuvix the shit out of you!!
(Then there will be two of you, but better, Im showing you mercy)
You probably shouldn’t do the ‘two of the same guy’ thing (known in the trade as a ‘Reverse Tuvix’) where Star Trek is concerned…
Don’t you dare tell me Andy Dick doesn’t count.
The other Boimler had better be coming back for the final season.
The true Bold Boimler!
Haha, very good point (and those aren’t even all the examples, lul).
And even Tuvix wasn’t there only ‘non-reverse Tuvix’, just the only abomination too horrible for the fabric of reality to ever contain.Also - all dicks matter :)
Andy Dicks best and only recognised performance.
Also, sorry everyone, I was a Trekkie first and I will always come back to Star Trek, but the MST3K fan base is the nicest fan base. The only two bitter arguments I’ve ever seen the community devolve into was Joel vs. Mike (now very moot) and “I hate Crow’s new lady voice” for the most recent season. Other than that, everyone is super nice to a fault. The MST3K forums is the friendliest forum I have ever been on.
Joel vs. Mike
Mike is a great writer but Joel by far has the better timing and delivery. Not to derail the thread or anything.
calmly places halo above his head
Shit, if MST3K, Cinematic Titanic, and RiffTrax have taught me anything, it’s you can’t win 'em all, but you’re always a winner when you’re laughing with your friends
Note: rifftrax has now done more riffing than MST3K :)
And 1% of the production value. I’m just glad they’re all still willing to put out content for us weirdos
There was production value???
Actually, if anything the newer mst3k are trying for too much :)
Rifftrax have 100% of the Funny though
My attitude is that everyone brought something to the table worth watching.
It’s just a show, you should really just relax.
No need to fight over Joel or Mike when we have JOIKE sweaters. Or now: JOIKAHEM.
MST3K 🔥
I’m out of the loop… What torpedo? What woman?
Maybe the recent controversy from Warhammer 40k where Games Workshop retconned women space marines into existence? I dunno, did Star Wars do something to trigger the sexists since then, that controversy is a few weeks old now.
Female adeptes custodes not Space marines. Makes little difference in the large picture but it’s possible within the lore to have female custodians as they’re all humans picked at birth and genetically altered/enhanced individually to make the best soldier they could ever be. GW just didn’t mention females being in that order for 30 years apparently lol
Space marines are all male though, have been explicitly stated as being all male repeatedly and even recently with lore backing of the some of the organ implants and genetic modification templates only work on males since they’re based off the primarchs who were all male as sons of the emperor of mankind.
I’ll end with saying that GW has done great with inclusion in recent years, even explicitly telling Nazis to go find another hobby if they don’t like that GW is making warhammer and warhammer 40k for everyone, of all races, genders, and religions. They’ve always had racial representation and some manner of gender representation in the guard and eldar but now they’re expanding and I’m all for it. I have no issues with any of it so long as GW doesn’t just say ignore the last ~40 years of established lore and even recent lore issuances because we would like to sell more models.
I took it as a (mistaken) reference to the scene in The Last Jedi when Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) rams into a star destroyer in hyperspace, a maneuver which destroyed both ships and made people wonder why they didn’t just hyperspace into shit all the time instead of building warships and getting shot all the time.
It happened in the same point in the movie when she refuses multiple times to say that she has any plan whatsoever, leading to a lot of pointless fighting and was thought to have been some sort of commentary on “believing women” but very poorly executed.
Disney spent billions to destroy the Star Wars canon, but hopefully Trek can escape such a grisly fate.
In fairness, that scene with the destroyers was fucking awesome. Fuck the canon, it looked cool as fuck.
I didn’t give that a second thought, glad someone else thought they knew the reference
Wasn’t it one of the recent star wars films?
Meanwhile us Battlestar Galactica fans are over in the corner wondering why no one talks to us
Because the first series didn’t age well :( although I loved it at 10… And the second was (controversial opinion incoming) too much of a soap opera for me.
The writers and showrunners blatantly not having a clue where the plot was going was a bigger problem for me than the soapiness.
It’s weird how the show just vanished. Even without all the sequels and prequels Star Wars would still have been endlessly referenced for decades after the 2nd movie. BSG is the cultural equivalent of a night of heavy drinking.
I remember binge watching it. I remember talking to people about it but nothing this past decade
Even without all the sequels and prequels Star Wars would still have been endlessly referenced for decades after the 2nd movie.
Not necessarily. Being able to stick the landing is hugely important for a series’ legacy. Game of Thrones disappeared from conversation after its disastrous final season, but would probably be fondly remembered if it had been suddenly cancelled after season five. If ROTJ had been a similar dumpster fire, Star Wars might have gone the same way.
Only toasters don’t like the ending of BSG
See I had to think about that for a good five seconds before I got the reference. Say “live long and prosper” and I get it in a tenth of the time.
Notice how basically no one ever mentions Lost or Game of Thrones anymore?
These shows were HUGE during their time. “This is AMAZING. Television has never been like this before. You can’t be an adult in society if you haven’t seen last night’s episode because if you say you don’t watch this show the conversation will immediately end.” soon “What the fuck was that ending? The last season turned to shit! Never mention this shit to me again.”
It’s like VindictiveJudge says, these shows are designed to feel like they’re going places but never actually get there. The writers of Lost put shit in that they thought looked intriguing but they hadn’t thought of any way to resolve it into something. “What do the numbers mean?!” Nothing! Absolutely nothing!
Those shows are built like big epic stories, they’re not Star Trek type adventure of the week that returns to the status quo, and yet they’re not designed to resolve. Of course you’re going to leave unsatisfied.
JUMP!
The second seemed like an asset rip to me. It wasn’t bad per se, it just wasn’t Battlestar Galactica.
Because you messed up your last season especially the ending
Imagine Space: 1999 fans…
The final frontier…
The original old show? It’s meh okay 70’s sci-fi TV. Not into the kid and his robot dog or whatever.
The 2000s remake? It’s basically what cured my television habit. I was never really into the “gritty realistic” heartburn drama shit anyway, so I gave up on the show itself pretty early, then spent the rest of my time as an SG-1 fan having Katee Sackhoff scream in anguish at me during every single commercial break for years on end. Then every TV show made from then on had to be a dark and brooding show about terrible people being terrible to each other and then I stopped watching TV.
Completely agree.
If I would ever be in desperate need of help it would instantly comfort me to see a trekkie or a metalhead. The average wholesomeness is ridiculously high.
Metalhead trekkie here. I won’t let you fall in the pit.
There are several of us!! :D
Metalhead over a trekkie any way. Seven foot tall, face full of piercings, absolute kitten
Exactly.
(But also Im running away from a trekkie cosplaying as Neelix … and assaulting the Tuvix one)
I have a mate who literally fills the trifecta lol
Metalhead - Actually plays guitar for a thrash band - piercings to hell and back, seven foot tall, built like a fucking tank, loud motorcycles.
Yes he’s a mushball and a raging nerd
You mean the same ones who call every music other than metal “crap” and “not even real music”?
Nah, I will take a Trekkie every day of the week.
No. Please take your weird issues elsewhere
Add motorcyclist to your list.
And d&d players.
The venn is very close to a single circle
So you’re saying Star Trek needs its own version of Jar Jar?
That would be lens flare
Yeah that was both subtle and not quite so subtle. Lower Decks is multi layer genius.
Yes, it features several layers of the ship (decks).
Well done, well done
Thanks!!
I’ll be here all week! (Like literally - I physically can’t leave myself, otherwise I would.)
Jar Jar Abrams
But we already have Neelix.
This is Tuvix
Wait, but we already went crazy about a woman firing torpedoes. We went so crazy, we counted them.
It still bugs me that they make a big deal about how few resources they have and then fire so many torpedoes and lose so many shuttles. I would have loved to have seen them pick up some locally sourced equipment.
Honestly, my thought was always just that they could replicate equipment and components as needed but it was a power intensive process.
There is a whole episode of Voyager where they land the ship to do repairs on it, and I just figure that happens more than we’re shown.
I agree though, I would have preferred Voyager to have all crazy Borg shit forever. Would have been sick to have all this jury-rigged bullshit, almost like how DS9 is totally fucked.
They also designed and built a custom shuttle, but iirc it was an open question as to whether or not the ship’s larger replicators could handle it, which implies they left with all the shuttles they lost and the Delta Flyer was the first they made.
That was great :)
In the words of Dr. Westphalen (who was paraphrasing Admiral Farragut), “Damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead!”
